Is Sam Presti overrated?

[Saints14]

Hard to argue he’s not one of the best. It’s the GMs job to put together a team capable of winning a title, but he’s not the one coaching or playing. Remember there was some bad injury luck during the KD/WB years that derailed them in the playoffs.

A few things beyond just team building that I think Presti should get credit for that are uncommon among GMs:

1. He adapts his philosophy: Presti’s worst period was in that post-KD era where (PG trade aside) he heavily targeted terrific athletes who he hoped they could develop into good basketball players. None of these guys could shoot and their spacing was horrific. Fast forward to the SGA era and they ONLY target guys with high skill and IQ, leaving them with a team that plays greater than the sum of its parts. Somewhere along the way Presti admitted his mistakes and course corrected

2. He leads a first class organization: you constantly hear players rave about the quality of the Thunder organization, which gets guys happy to be there even if it’s one of the least desirable locations in the NBA

[GrindCityHustle]

He is better than Jerry West at this point and especially for being small market.

[Optms]

He had Durant, Harden and Westbrook all on the same team and did nothing. He's not a championship level GM. He is the prime example on just because you build a loaded roster, doesn't mean automatic titles.

He's elite at rebuilding. But not at fullfilling that rebuild and getting them to the next level. You all will see it again in the next 2-5 years when he loses his core. This OKC team is ascending but they won't go anywhere. There will always be that one team that's better just better because they will be structured better by their respective GM.

I mean, his team plays in Oklahoma City. Not saying it's impossible to keep a winner together there but it's a major challenge, and something it seems like Presti is taking into account. Seems like you're also basing this on literally one player leaving the team in one of the weirdest and most heavily criticized moves of all time. (If KD doesn't leave the team is in the title hunt for another 4-5 years at least).

Nope.

He traded Harden for peanuts to the Rockets. Harden then going on to transform himself in a yearly MVP candidate. It was the domino that set KD leaving in motion and dooming the core. He had 3 MVP talents on the same team and squandered it. That is the difference between a team like OKC and the Warriors in the mid 2010s. One GM did everything to maintain the core. The other did not.

[GeorgeSears]

He deserves a lot of love.

The unfortunate reality for small market teams is that they can only build through the draft or trades. Attracting big name FAs is close to impossible. OKC is among the smallest markets in the league. So, there's immense pressure to hit on draft picks and make sure they don't bungle any trades. A bad draft sends small market teams back several years because they can't recover those lost assets through FA the way big market teams can always reload no matter how many mistakes they make. It also becomes tougher to retain players when they become unrestricted FAs.

For him to build this current team through trades and drafts is a testament to his greatness. They have a good 5 year window with this squad to compete for a title and they will eventually win one.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Thunder have existed for 15.5 years now. Have had 7 All-NBA talents in KD, Westbrook, Harden, Paul George, Chris Paul, Dom Sabonis and SGA. Have 1 Finals appearance and zero titles. Does he deserve more love for acquiring those guys or more hate for never winning with them?

lol

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Is the ultimate goal of a GM to win a title or have a bunch of press clippings on how good of a trade he made?

We pretty much judge players solely on winning and winning titles, no?

no

[jkvonny]

Thunder have existed for 15.5 years now. Have had 7 All-NBA talents in KD, Westbrook, Harden, Paul George, Chris Paul, Dom Sabonis and SGA. Have 1 Finals appearance and zero titles. Does he deserve more love for acquiring those guys or more hate for never winning with them?

Do you understand what kind of market that they are in? It's not a huge, glamorous market! Similar to Denver, San Antonio, Utah, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana, Orlando, New Orleans, Charlotte, Minnesota, Sacramento, Portland, ect.
They've only had like 3 bad seasons in the last decade and a half. Been in the playoffs most years, great players, coaches, GM, owner, etc.
They've been championship contenders in the past as well and gettin better. The West has been stacked for years as well.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Is the ultimate goal of a GM to win a title or have a bunch of press clippings on how good of a trade he made?

We pretty much judge players solely on winning and winning titles, no?

so there are only like 3 good GMs?
No one only uses titles to evaluating a GM's performance. You have to include context, just like you do with players

Pelinka will have an easier time attracting players than Masai, does that make him a better GM?

Market desirability and ownership mandates play a huge role in a GM's performance.

Mitch Kupchak >>> Sam Presti, now that he's available the Thunder should dump Sammy and go for him

[Ryoga Hibiki]

It’s his job to put together a team capable of competing. If they don’t pull through in the next 4 years, doesn’t mean he is a failure. Everyone can’t win a title or make it out of the conference.

NBA success is largely predicated on having one of those GOAT level players.


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I mean KD was MVP, Westbrook won MVP, PG was in MVP convo, SGA is in MVP convo.

He has 50 future picks, is it not his job to maximize the team and give them best title chances?
Or is it better to just play the long game, stay competitive, keep compiling assets and eventually hope to get lucky?

He's already surrounded SGA with 2 young soon to be all-stars through the draft.
Do you think a good GM should rush to put whatever veterans they can around their young MVP candidate? Like Cavs did with Lebron? like New Orleans did with Anthony Davis? Is that good strategy in your opinion?

to be honest, I am not sure it makes a lot of sense to answer him seriously. It looks to me like troll thread

[Ryoga Hibiki]

So how many years does he get a pass on for the current team not making the Finals? If they don't get to the finals in the next 4 years does that change anything to you?

Considering it's the rookie year of their core rebuild piece playing (#2 pick's first season) I'd give him quite a while. Now if he fails to shore up their biggest need (rebounding) and they flame out due to getting crushed on the boards consistently.. That is a different story.

That's the other thing. Chet is the highest draft pick since KD. OKC has never picked #1 overall. In that same time frame, Minny and Cleveland have picked 1 twice.

Cleveland three times, I would argue. Or Minnie three time, if you prefer

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Thunder have existed for 15.5 years now. Have had 7 All-NBA talents in KD, Westbrook, Harden, Paul George, Chris Paul, Dom Sabonis and SGA. Have 1 Finals appearance and zero titles. Does he deserve more love for acquiring those guys or more hate for never winning with them?

What you are describing here is the ACCUMULATION of talent - that's presti's job.

What you are complaining about is the player's/coach's problem

I think it's fair to argue that Presti fell behind in his team construction philosophy during the early to mid 10s Durant teams, with too much of a focus on size and defense at the expense of shooting and spacing.
On the other hand, he's being very innovative in the last few years.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Truly one of the best talent evaluators in the league. All GMs have their weaknesses, but as far as strengths go, evaluating talent especially through the draft is imo one of the most important for a GM.

Presti has done two rebuilds into contender level teams in a span of 15 years..not bad, considering OKC should be a top team for the next 5+ years at least.

I agree but I honestly think, after years of thinking and studying this, that 'talent evaluation' in the draft is mostly just educated guessing.

it is, but there are some things to consider:
1) there's a matter of understanding where you are as a team and where the league is going in terms of trends to go for the right archetype. Results might finally be same, but it's different when you draft a bust betting on long term development or playing it safe
2) some teams have the right environment that facilitates growth, in terms of coaching, culture and team building. The Spurs were good at drafting in the 00s but were going for the players who fit their team and strategy and knew what to do with them
3) nobody knows everything, but a great talent evaluator is going to hit more often than a poor one. Maybe it's 30% vs 20%, hence when you're big game hunting luck makes much more of a difference (like to find a Jokic), but this is much more visible in later picks that don't go wasted as often. Because of that, quantity > quality as a bad evaluator with two high picks will likely have more success than a good one with only one.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Here's my beef with Presti...

He had two years of cheap competing teams, this and next and then its the beginning of cap hell. He Danny Ainged this year cheaping out on Hayward at the deadline with his tradeable salary and keeping what is really far too many picks. If he does the same in the summer, I don't even know what to say. He can keep picking and building but there's a salary cap that's eventually going to restrict what he can do. Now was the time to use some of those picks.

And he could have traded some picks and still be in a position of not just being competetive, but actually really competing.

Building and getting wacked by the cap was the mistake he made last decade and I'm not sure its going to be any different this time.

the thing is that you must see this team in the playoffs to really understand what you need to compete.
I understand the frustration, but the kind of player that you can add to this team without having to change their philosophy is not going to be cheap and will have impact to their long term salary structure.
I think his plan to maximize his next 5 to 7 years makes sense, but it's not the same as maximizing this year

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He has had blemishes people conveniently leave out: trading Harden, anchoring the teams financial flexibility with the Perkin's contract, not going in on the Durant/Westbrook years, Trading for Melo, keeping bad coaches on the team, so forth.

So, like every GM in history then.

Every GM isn't heralded as an elite GM as Presti is. Elite Gms don't make detrimental mistakes that cost them championships. Sorry.

who is an elite GM, then?

[Lalouie]

Thunder have existed for 15.5 years now. Have had 7 All-NBA talents in KD, Westbrook, Harden, Paul George, Chris Paul, Dom Sabonis and SGA. Have 1 Finals appearance and zero titles. Does he deserve more love for acquiring those guys or more hate for never winning with them?

What you are describing here is the ACCUMULATION of talent - that's presti's job.

What you are complaining about is the player's/coach's problem

I think it's fair to argue that Presti fell behind in his team construction philosophy during the early to mid 10s Durant teams, with too much of a focus on size and defense at the expense of shooting and spacing.
On the other hand, he's being very innovative in the last few years.

but where did brooks fit into this equation

the prob as i saw it was okc didnt want to spend money...that's why they moved harden before he could turn his head. harden said he was ready to talk but okc didn't waste any time. okc decided they could build around westbrook and durant and to that extent they were, well,,, okay,. they never got another harden. you know what,,you make your move and live with it

it's a tough call and i think it just played out badly. presti drafted very well for what he wanted. i'm not going to say his philosophy was wrong. just some inopportune events. they were super super young when they face a seasoned miami - they were the youngest since walton and that's pretty damn young. kd was hurt one year, westbrook got hurt another year. it wasnt in the stars

[Ssj16]

I would like the naysayers who think Presti is overrated to show a list of GMs who are better than Presti. I think that would help settle this debate.

For me Presti is the best GM in the game right now and I would trade Ujiri for him in a heartbeat. And I also think Ujiri is a top 10 GM based on his history.

[SelfishPlayer]

He isn't the problem. That ownership is the problem and a system that rewards terrible small market teams is the problem.

[hardenASG13]

He completely botched the KD/Westbrook era with roster construction (slow center always clogging the paint, non shooters everywhere around those 2!). While I think they would've won a title if not for the injuries, the poor construction is also why KD left. He's getting it right this time so far though.

[Los_29]

He is overrated. He’s made some unbelievably bad decisions that set that franchise back years. He also inexcusably rolled with Westbrook for far too long before deciding to break up that team. He also went through a long stretch where he drafted quite poorly.

The situation that he’s in now is due to Kawhi deciding to team up with Paul George. If he doesn’t do that then OKC doesn’t get Shai and that team would still be mediocre.

With that said, he’s not a bad GM.

[maxpower8888]

He's consistently built teams that are good enough to compete for a title. That's all a GM can do, he can't go out and play the games for them, but he can put them in a position where they can realistically win, and he's done that. Best GM in the league IMO.