Game 78: Wolves vs. Land of no Lakes

[minimus]

Jaden is overpaid, and Naz and NAW are definitely underpaid.

Jaden is making 4 mil this season.

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

I saw this movie many times. Fortunately, our coaching staff keep playing players through adversity. Anderson was awful in first half of the season, McLaughlin was bad after all injuries. Now they both form a solid bench. Am I supposed to worry about Jaden?

Well, he does hurt our offense when he misses wide open threes, like in the game against CHI, but he is young, he is a key piece of this franchise AND he has been dealing with wrist injury this season. I believe in Jaden, development is not linear. And once again, there is a LOT of time and opportunities before we can call him overpaid. It is called playoffs.

[Note30]

Jaden is making 4 mil this season.

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

I saw this movie many times. Fortunately, our coaching staff keep playing players through adversity. Anderson was awful in first half of the season, McLaughlin was bad after all injuries. Now they both form a solid bench. Am I supposed to worry about Jaden?

Well, he does hurt our offense when he misses wide open threes, like in the game against CHI, but he is young, he is a key piece of this franchise AND he has been dealing with wrist injury this season. I believe in Jaden, development is not linear. And once again, there is a LOT of time and opportunities before we can call him overpaid. It is called playoffs.

So if he's a liability in the playoffs on the offensive end will be considered overpaid or will you find a new excuse?

[Domejandro]

I would like to see a W/L breakdown metric with regards to Anthony Edwards turnovers.
0-2, 3-4, and 5+.

He only had one tonight and our offense looked pretty good.

6 Turnovers: 2-2 // .500
5 Turnovers: 7-5 // .583
4 Turnovers: 9-5 // .643
3 Turnovers: 14-5 // .737
2 Turnovers: 10-2 // .833
1 Turnover: 5-4 // .556
0 Turnovers: 5-0 // 1.00

Omitting games with less than twenty minutes played, the only changes are...

1 Turnover: 5-3 // .625
0 Turnovers: 4-0 // 1.00


Seems like a very clear trend.

[BlacJacMac]

Jaden is overpaid, and Naz and NAW are definitely underpaid.

Jaden is making 4 mil this season.

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

That 22M is 16% of the salary cap. The 29.8M in 28-29 is only 14.4%.

The raw numbers may sound scary, but the impact is not.

[minimus]

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

I saw this movie many times. Fortunately, our coaching staff keep playing players through adversity. Anderson was awful in first half of the season, McLaughlin was bad after all injuries. Now they both form a solid bench. Am I supposed to worry about Jaden?

Well, he does hurt our offense when he misses wide open threes, like in the game against CHI, but he is young, he is a key piece of this franchise AND he has been dealing with wrist injury this season. I believe in Jaden, development is not linear. And once again, there is a LOT of time and opportunities before we can call him overpaid. It is called playoffs.

So if he's a liability in the playoffs on the offensive end will be considered overpaid or will you find a new excuse?

I guess in this case you will have a strong reason to bash young player

[BlacJacMac]

BTW, Naz is on the best contract in the NBA making 13 mil in 2023-2024, 14 mil 2025, 15 mil 2026.

Hats off to Naz staying here with his buddies for less. Don't shed any tears for Naz cause his next contract will be double that at least.

Naz will be making a lot more than 15M in 2026.

Hopefully its here.

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

?t=XLYzuApJF-B9AKZ4Q4XhpA&s=19


Mind games or not, Lakers actually play better certain matchups when Bron is out. Pushes Russell and AD to take over.

I'm happy that Bron fears us . I think it makes the games easier.

Doctors confirmed after the game .. it was the Rudy flu. Lots of big men seem to get it when it’s time to face MIN.

[shrink]

Jaden is making 4 mil this season.

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

That 22M is 16% of the salary cap. The 29.8M in 28-29 is only 14.4%.

The raw numbers may sound scary, but the impact is not.

Right. And remember, the cap next year is $141, but no team wants their payroll at $141. Many teams try to land just under the lux ($172), and we will be near the second apron ($190).

So $22 mil on a typical team just under the lux is only 12.8%.

[winforlose]

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

I saw this movie many times. Fortunately, our coaching staff keep playing players through adversity. Anderson was awful in first half of the season, McLaughlin was bad after all injuries. Now they both form a solid bench. Am I supposed to worry about Jaden?

Well, he does hurt our offense when he misses wide open threes, like in the game against CHI, but he is young, he is a key piece of this franchise AND he has been dealing with wrist injury this season. I believe in Jaden, development is not linear. And once again, there is a LOT of time and opportunities before we can call him overpaid. It is called playoffs.

So if he's a liability in the playoffs on the offensive end will be considered overpaid or will you find a new excuse?

He is not making his next contract now. There is no way to say that the Jaden of 24-25 is not better than the Jaden of 23-24 until you see him play. So to say that a bad 23-24 precludes an improvement (especially in a 23 year old player,) is not logical. Moreover, losing Jaden for nothing, or trading him for a theoretical return (we don’t expect a sell high value after a down shooting year from deep,) isn’t ideal either. Plus Jaden is Ant’s best friend on the team. You are trying to paint a picture but you are only using red and blue. The problem is the picture you are trying to paint is a rainbow.

[Klomp]

Every good team has players who perform above their salary and play below their salary. That's just part of NBA economics. Scottie Pippen ($2,775,000) made less money for the 1997-98 Bulls than both Ron Harper ($4,560,000) and Luc Longley ($3,184,900). Michael Jordan made $33,140,000 that season when the salary cap for teams was set that season at $26,900,000. Yes, you read that right.

[Klomp]

BTW, Naz is on the best contract in the NBA making 13 mil in 2023-2024, 14 mil 2025, 15 mil 2026.

Hats off to Naz staying here with his buddies for less. Don't shed any tears for Naz cause his next contract will be double that at least.

Naz will be making a lot more than 15M in 2026.

Hopefully its here.

I think it's still important to use some context when you are talking about Naz Reid. I think a big reason that Naz Reid is Naz Reid is that Rudy Gobert allows Naz Reid to be Naz Reid. He does not have to play like a true big man. If a team paid him a bag and asked him to hold down the fort in the middle, Naz Reid would possibly look more like how PJ Washington looked in Charlotte. You have to pair him with someone who can provide the interior defense and rebounding.

[BlacJacMac]

BTW, Naz is on the best contract in the NBA making 13 mil in 2023-2024, 14 mil 2025, 15 mil 2026.

Hats off to Naz staying here with his buddies for less. Don't shed any tears for Naz cause his next contract will be double that at least.

Naz will be making a lot more than 15M in 2026.

Hopefully its here.

I think it's still important to use some context when you are talking about Naz Reid. I think a big reason that Naz Reid is Naz Reid is that Rudy Gobert allows Naz Reid to be Naz Reid. He does not have to play like a true big man. If a team paid him a bag and asked him to hold down the fort in the middle, Naz Reid would possibly look more like how PJ Washington looked in Charlotte. You have to pair him with someone who can provide the interior defense and rebounding.

I agree with that, but I don't think Naz is a center anymore.

As a 6'9, ~260 pound rookie, he wasn't quick or agile enough to play anywhere else.

But after losing 30 pounds and getting into amazing shape (and really improving his quickness), he's more of a SF/PF now.

So if you consider him a "swing forward" that (PER36) for his career gives you 21 PPG (50/47/72), 9 RPG, 2 APG, 3 Stocks and has become a legit positive defender, he's really underpaid.

[Klomp]

I agree with that, but I don't think Naz is a center anymore.

As a 6'9, ~260 pound rookie, he wasn't quick or agile enough to play anywhere else.

But after losing 30 pounds and getting into amazing shape (and really improving his quickness), he's more of a SF/PF now.

So if you consider him a "swing forward" that (PER36) for his career gives you 21 PPG (50/47/72), 9 RPG, 2 APG, 3 Stocks and has become a legit positive defender, he's really underpaid.

I absolutely agree with that. I just question if teams would view him the same way. I wonder if teams might think he played forward just because that's what the Wolves did this year. I think a lot of teams would play him primarily at C, or at least try to abandon defense when he's on the floor, and I think that would get him exposed. Teams reportedly in on him were Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio. All offense-leaning teams with significant holes in interior defense. San Antonio is the only one where he wouldn't necessarily be exposed on that end because of Victor.

[BlacJacMac]

I agree with that, but I don't think Naz is a center anymore.

As a 6'9, ~260 pound rookie, he wasn't quick or agile enough to play anywhere else.

But after losing 30 pounds and getting into amazing shape (and really improving his quickness), he's more of a SF/PF now.

So if you consider him a "swing forward" that (PER36) for his career gives you 21 PPG (50/47/72), 9 RPG, 2 APG, 3 Stocks and has become a legit positive defender, he's really underpaid.

I absolutely agree with that. I just question if teams would view him the same way. I wonder if teams might think he played forward just because that's what the Wolves did this year. I think a lot of teams would play him primarily at C, or at least try to abandon defense when he's on the floor, and I think that would get him exposed. Teams reportedly in on him were Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio. All offense-leaning teams with significant holes in interior defense. San Antonio is the only one where he wouldn't necessarily be exposed on that end because of Victor.

My guess is after watching him this year (and next), it will be a different (and larger) group of teams in on him.

[Nick K]

Jaden is making 4 mil this season.

What you don't say is next year Jaden will make 22+ million with escalators ending 2028-2029 at 29.8 million!

Yes Jaden is being overpaid. We had better hope he develops an offensive game because solid defenders that can't score are a dime a dozen and make spit.

I saw this movie many times. Fortunately, our coaching staff keep playing players through adversity. Anderson was awful in first half of the season, McLaughlin was bad after all injuries. Now they both form a solid bench. Am I supposed to worry about Jaden?

Well, he does hurt our offense when he misses wide open threes, like in the game against CHI, but he is young, he is a key piece of this franchise AND he has been dealing with wrist injury this season. I believe in Jaden, development is not linear. And once again, there is a LOT of time and opportunities before we can call him overpaid. It is called playoffs.

I like Jaden and am willing to go through the tough times but he spends too much time on the bench because he's a foul a minute player. He has major weaknesses that you don't see. I'm being realistic right now. That doesn't mean he can't get a lot better but he has to start showing me a lot more. You see things through rose colored glasses. I'm just saying he has a long way to go to live up to his coming contract. You want to bet on the come. There is no guarantee he will be that guy. However, I'm rooting for him.

[Nick K]

BTW, Naz is on the best contract in the NBA making 13 mil in 2023-2024, 14 mil 2025, 15 mil 2026.

Hats off to Naz staying here with his buddies for less. Don't shed any tears for Naz cause his next contract will be double that at least.

Naz will be making a lot more than 15M in 2026.

Hopefully its here.

I took the numbers from basketball reference. They don't make mistakes.

[Nick K]

I saw this movie many times. Fortunately, our coaching staff keep playing players through adversity. Anderson was awful in first half of the season, McLaughlin was bad after all injuries. Now they both form a solid bench. Am I supposed to worry about Jaden?

Well, he does hurt our offense when he misses wide open threes, like in the game against CHI, but he is young, he is a key piece of this franchise AND he has been dealing with wrist injury this season. I believe in Jaden, development is not linear. And once again, there is a LOT of time and opportunities before we can call him overpaid. It is called playoffs.

So if he's a liability in the playoffs on the offensive end will be considered overpaid or will you find a new excuse?

He is not making his next contract now. There is no way to say that the Jaden of 24-25 is not better than the Jaden of 23-24 until you see him play. So to say that a bad 23-24 precludes an improvement (especially in a 23 year old player,) is not logical. Moreover, losing Jaden for nothing, or trading him for a theoretical return (we don’t expect a sell high value after a down shooting year from deep,) isn’t ideal either. Plus Jaden is Ant’s best friend on the team. You are trying to paint a picture but you are only using red and blue. The problem is the picture you are trying to paint is a rainbow.

Right on. Well said.

[Nick K]

I agree with that, but I don't think Naz is a center anymore.

As a 6'9, ~260 pound rookie, he wasn't quick or agile enough to play anywhere else.

But after losing 30 pounds and getting into amazing shape (and really improving his quickness), he's more of a SF/PF now.

So if you consider him a "swing forward" that (PER36) for his career gives you 21 PPG (50/47/72), 9 RPG, 2 APG, 3 Stocks and has become a legit positive defender, he's really underpaid.

I absolutely agree with that. I just question if teams would view him the same way. I wonder if teams might think he played forward just because that's what the Wolves did this year. I think a lot of teams would play him primarily at C, or at least try to abandon defense when he's on the floor, and I think that would get him exposed. Teams reportedly in on him were Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio. All offense-leaning teams with significant holes in interior defense. San Antonio is the only one where he wouldn't necessarily be exposed on that end because of Victor.

Yep. Right on. Both of you. Naz isn't a center. No way. Naz is a big with PG skills. He's a SF/PF all day. He is the prototypical 6th man. You need that 6th guy to win championships.

I loved his get on draft night but all the more amazing is his desire to change his body and continue to develop his game in ways we rarely ever see. He is amazing!

[winforlose]

I agree with that, but I don't think Naz is a center anymore.

As a 6'9, ~260 pound rookie, he wasn't quick or agile enough to play anywhere else.

But after losing 30 pounds and getting into amazing shape (and really improving his quickness), he's more of a SF/PF now.

So if you consider him a "swing forward" that (PER36) for his career gives you 21 PPG (50/47/72), 9 RPG, 2 APG, 3 Stocks and has become a legit positive defender, he's really underpaid.

I absolutely agree with that. I just question if teams would view him the same way. I wonder if teams might think he played forward just because that's what the Wolves did this year. I think a lot of teams would play him primarily at C, or at least try to abandon defense when he's on the floor, and I think that would get him exposed. Teams reportedly in on him were Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio. All offense-leaning teams with significant holes in interior defense. San Antonio is the only one where he wouldn't necessarily be exposed on that end because of Victor.

Yep. Right on. Both of you. Naz isn't a center. No way. Naz is a big with PG skills. He's a SF/PF all day. He is the prototypical 6th man. You need that 6th guy to win championships.

I loved his get on draft night but all the more amazing is his desire to change his body and continue to develop his game in ways we rarely ever see. He is amazing!

I have been pushing Naz and Karl as PFs for a good long while. But I remember doing a poll about this in the summer after the Gobert trade. I bumped it, but I will also link to it. Good times.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2214433&p=112291562#p112291562

[BlacJacMac]

BTW, Naz is on the best contract in the NBA making 13 mil in 2023-2024, 14 mil 2025, 15 mil 2026.

Hats off to Naz staying here with his buddies for less. Don't shed any tears for Naz cause his next contract will be double that at least.

Naz will be making a lot more than 15M in 2026.

Hopefully its here.

I took the numbers from basketball reference. They don't make mistakes.

Player option.