Moderators: HiJiNX, 7 Footer, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, Morris_Shatford, lebron stopper
S.W.A.N wrote:Merit wrote:Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Yeah, but you can see them trying to distance themselves from it.
Who’s them? Because I haven’t heard a peep from the Front Office.
Random internet people who have nothing better to do than make **** up
deeps6x wrote:Merit wrote:I disagree with the whole premise of the thread. So much changed from when the trade was originally made. It’s like pretending you knew the future would happen when the trade was made. It’s very difficult for anyone to claim it would’ve played out the way it did with absolute certainty. Every trade is a risk. Heck in an alternate timeline maybe the raps keep their pick!
That applies equally to the OG and Pascal trades too. NYK was willing to take the risk that RJ and IQ would become amazing because OG on their team was worth it to them. Similarly, Masai got salary flexibility instead of youth from Indiana. Was that the right call? We shall see.
Similarly, Masai got salary flexibility instead of youth from Indiana. Was that the right call? We shall see.
NO! I expected at least Mathurin in the deal.
deeps6x wrote:Merit wrote:duppyy wrote:I keep hearing Purtle is a top 10 center, is he really? I don’t see it.
He was surpassed by two rookies already (Chet and Wemby) and will probably be surpassed by Edey too.
But is he paid like one?
He is a top 15-16 center in the league. And yeah, he's paid like it.
But he wasn't the right fit for the team - as soon as we traded Siakam and OG. He should have been moved at the draft. Edey should be on the team (plus salary parts we could be trading now).
HiJiNX wrote:Merit wrote:HiJiNX wrote:Yeah Matas has size, skill, feel, athleticism, and the attitude. I’m pretty high on him.
Chomche less so but I have faith. He’s a mature and smart kid who seems to really want it and he’s a tremendous athlete.
I’m hopeful on chomche if only because he put his name in the draft a year early. Actually it’s his work ethic that gets me. Moving from not being able to speak English at all to being semi fluent in such a short period of time is extremely impressive and bodes well for his ability to learn and grow.
Thanks for your opinion. It’s super challenging to predict how a person may develop. I remember being super high on Ricky Rubio but then he plateaued really soon. Regardless, I wish Matas all the best!
Thanks for the convo my guy.
Funny you bring up Rubio—I never saw it with him. I saw a kid that could dribble and pass but couldn’t get in the lane easily unless he was in transition and was a horrible leaper off one or two feet and lacked strength. He also couldn’t shoot. So I was like, how is he gonna score at the NBA level if he can’t get to the rim or shoot or absorb contact? Passing skills are negated if you can’t score. He eventually developed a decent jumper but he still couldn’t overcome his physical limitations. Got a lot of steals too and became a good defender which I didn’t really see coming giving his lack of foot speed.
I dunno man, I’m pretty good at player prognostications. Obviously I’m wrong a lot, but I would also wager that I’m right more than a lot of people, even some of the folks who do this professionally. Eventually I’m gonna create a platform to look at guys who were just drafted and try to project who they’ll be in their primes. It’ll be fun to see what I get right and what I get wrong (like Perry Jones III who I thought was gonna be awesome and…he flamed out super fast haha).
While I’m here, my sleeper in this draft is Kel’el Ware. Crazy he fell so far in the draft. He’s gonna be a stretch big who also rebounds and blocks shots, while being able to switch out to the perimeter on D, and also providing a vertical threat on O. Imagine if Tyson Chandler could shoot and dribble a little bit. That’s close to what I think Kel’el Ware will be.
Scase wrote:PerfectJab wrote:I don't get the point of beating a dead horse.
The point of this thread is to put emphasis on the fact that it was a bad and shortsighted trade which most of us already agree on.
Digging deeper it has more to do with being unsatisfied with Masai but it makes the situation more depressing than anything else as it's been talked about already, there is a general consensus on it, and there is a point where talking about it doesn't bring anything new to the discussion. It's like running out of things to talk about as to why Masai sucks as an executive by extending the lineage of a mistake into hypothetical situations.
What if''s are the worse things to talk about in sports as it doesn't represent reality.
What if Cleveland had drafted Michael Jordan?
What if there were no draft restrictions on expansion teams?
What if Charlotte had kept their Kobe pick?
For all we know the Raptors FO might have drafted another Bruno with their pick had they not made the trade.
It's just so pointless...
It's kinda funny you say this, because it's clearly aimed at people who think it was a bad trade. Yet, the person who made the thread is a massive Jak/Masai defender and constantly talks about how good the trade was. For instance :
So it would seem you are putting the blame on the wrong people.
Poeltl trade was not a mistake - how much evidence do you need? Did you watch this team with and without Poeltl? He's a top ten centre - more like this board can never admit that it is wrong. Hasn't been able to do so dating back to 2014 when TWO was unfortunately born.
mademan wrote:Nebuchadnezzar wrote:Scase wrote:I'm with you, it's just weird to still see people trying to defend it.
What is there to defend? Yak has been an absolute critical addition to this team. If all it took was a 6'1 player with probably the ceiling of Reggie Jackson (or another pick with similar value to get him, then it was a complete steal of a trade.
I cant believe people are still justifying this trade. It was a bad deal, Masai is far from perfect, it set us back. Time to move on
PerfectJab wrote:Scase wrote:PerfectJab wrote:I don't get the point of beating a dead horse.
The point of this thread is to put emphasis on the fact that it was a bad and shortsighted trade which most of us already agree on.
Digging deeper it has more to do with being unsatisfied with Masai but it makes the situation more depressing than anything else as it's been talked about already, there is a general consensus on it, and there is a point where talking about it doesn't bring anything new to the discussion. It's like running out of things to talk about as to why Masai sucks as an executive by extending the lineage of a mistake into hypothetical situations.
What if''s are the worse things to talk about in sports as it doesn't represent reality.
What if Cleveland had drafted Michael Jordan?
What if there were no draft restrictions on expansion teams?
What if Charlotte had kept their Kobe pick?
For all we know the Raptors FO might have drafted another Bruno with their pick had they not made the trade.
It's just so pointless...
It's kinda funny you say this, because it's clearly aimed at people who think it was a bad trade. Yet, the person who made the thread is a massive Jak/Masai defender and constantly talks about how good the trade was. For instance :
So it would seem you are putting the blame on the wrong people.
Makes no sense then. Just weird.
OAKLEY_2 wrote:Poeltl trade was not a mistake - how much evidence do you need? Did you watch this team with and without Poeltl? He's a top ten centre - more like this board can never admit that it is wrong. Hasn't been able to do so dating back to 2014 when TWO was unfortunately born.
The board never liked Poetl even as a #9 pick and before Poetl round two they were slamming Paskal and Fred religiously. Poetl just took over scapegoat status for the fan whiners. It was an anti tank move. Tank doctrine must always be right. Part of that whining is the FO waited too long to rebuild and yes that is the ultimate hindsight position. If we take the position we are always flawed then we can say we always must tank. One legit critique we never hear was overpaying for Quickley which might prove to be a bad allocation of money in a rebuild. Or that paying Olynyk was any kind of smart investment. My question is why do fans believe Agbaji can even be a rotation piece? We gave away the Collier pick pretty much as price to dump Porter and Lewis.
WuTang_OG wrote:masai called this trade spilled milk lol
it is what it is now. time to move on yesterday
Scase wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:Poeltl trade was not a mistake - how much evidence do you need? Did you watch this team with and without Poeltl? He's a top ten centre - more like this board can never admit that it is wrong. Hasn't been able to do so dating back to 2014 when TWO was unfortunately born.
The board never liked Poetl even as a #9 pick and before Poetl round two they were slamming Paskal and Fred religiously. Poetl just took over scapegoat status for the fan whiners. It was an anti tank move. Tank doctrine must always be right. Part of that whining is the FO waited too long to rebuild and yes that is the ultimate hindsight position. If we take the position we are always flawed then we can say we always must tank. One legit critique we never hear was overpaying for Quickley which might prove to be a bad allocation of money in a rebuild. Or that paying Olynyk was any kind of smart investment. My question is why do fans believe Agbaji can even be a rotation piece? We gave away the Collier pick pretty much as price to dump Porter and Lewis.
The Jak trade was bad when it happened, and it's even worse now. If it was such a good trade, we'd still have FVV/OG/Siakam on the team, but it wasn't. It was a misguided attempt to give an extremely flawed core yet another kick at the can, and it failed. Pro/anti tank doesn't matter, we won 25 games last year, and it was indisputable, that we were accomplishing nothing the second that play in game ended.
As for the overpaying Quickley comment, well I guess you just choose to ignore things. Cause the thread about his signing was filled by nothing but discussions about whether or not he was overpaid, I said he was overpaid, as did a bunch of other people. The Olynyk trade has been complained about a fair amount, I think it was a stupid trade for a player we could have just signed in FA and could've used the pick in another more meaningful trade. And people have been dumping on Ochai (rightfully so) a lot more lately, and a bunch of us since the trade was made. But you dont hear as much stink about the trade, because it wasn't that big of a trade.
Just because you don't remember, or pay attention to it, doesn't mean these convos aren't happening. Like all you have to do is go into any of the "Official X players" threads, and you will see it. Don't use ignorance to defend a bad Jak trade.
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Just because MIN picked Dilly at 8 doesn't mean TOR would have.
Scase wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:Poeltl trade was not a mistake - how much evidence do you need? Did you watch this team with and without Poeltl? He's a top ten centre - more like this board can never admit that it is wrong. Hasn't been able to do so dating back to 2014 when TWO was unfortunately born.
The board never liked Poetl even as a #9 pick and before Poetl round two they were slamming Paskal and Fred religiously. Poetl just took over scapegoat status for the fan whiners. It was an anti tank move. Tank doctrine must always be right. Part of that whining is the FO waited too long to rebuild and yes that is the ultimate hindsight position. If we take the position we are always flawed then we can say we always must tank. One legit critique we never hear was overpaying for Quickley which might prove to be a bad allocation of money in a rebuild. Or that paying Olynyk was any kind of smart investment. My question is why do fans believe Agbaji can even be a rotation piece? We gave away the Collier pick pretty much as price to dump Porter and Lewis.
The Jak trade was bad when it happened, and it's even worse now. If it was such a good trade, we'd still have FVV/OG/Siakam on the team, but it wasn't. It was a misguided attempt to give an extremely flawed core yet another kick at the can, and it failed. Pro/anti tank doesn't matter, we won 25 games last year, and it was indisputable, that we were accomplishing nothing the second that play in game ended.
As for the overpaying Quickley comment, well I guess you just choose to ignore things. Cause the thread about his signing was filled by nothing but discussions about whether or not he was overpaid, I said he was overpaid, as did a bunch of other people. The Olynyk trade has been complained about a fair amount, I think it was a stupid trade for a player we could have just signed in FA and could've used the pick in another more meaningful trade. And people have been dumping on Ochai (rightfully so) a lot more lately, and a bunch of us since the trade was made. But you dont hear as much stink about the trade, because it wasn't that big of a trade.
Just because you don't remember, or pay attention to it, doesn't mean these convos aren't happening. Like all you have to do is go into any of the "Official X players" threads, and you will see it. Don't use ignorance to defend a bad Jak trade.
*INGRAM*ALLSTARSEASON* Wemby is HIM
DreamTeam09 wrote:Scase wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:
The board never liked Poetl even as a #9 pick and before Poetl round two they were slamming Paskal and Fred religiously. Poetl just took over scapegoat status for the fan whiners. It was an anti tank move. Tank doctrine must always be right. Part of that whining is the FO waited too long to rebuild and yes that is the ultimate hindsight position. If we take the position we are always flawed then we can say we always must tank. One legit critique we never hear was overpaying for Quickley which might prove to be a bad allocation of money in a rebuild. Or that paying Olynyk was any kind of smart investment. My question is why do fans believe Agbaji can even be a rotation piece? We gave away the Collier pick pretty much as price to dump Porter and Lewis.
The Jak trade was bad when it happened, and it's even worse now. If it was such a good trade, we'd still have FVV/OG/Siakam on the team, but it wasn't. It was a misguided attempt to give an extremely flawed core yet another kick at the can, and it failed. Pro/anti tank doesn't matter, we won 25 games last year, and it was indisputable, that we were accomplishing nothing the second that play in game ended.
As for the overpaying Quickley comment, well I guess you just choose to ignore things. Cause the thread about his signing was filled by nothing but discussions about whether or not he was overpaid, I said he was overpaid, as did a bunch of other people. The Olynyk trade has been complained about a fair amount, I think it was a stupid trade for a player we could have just signed in FA and could've used the pick in another more meaningful trade. And people have been dumping on Ochai (rightfully so) a lot more lately, and a bunch of us since the trade was made. But you dont hear as much stink about the trade, because it wasn't that big of a trade.
Just because you don't remember, or pay attention to it, doesn't mean these convos aren't happening. Like all you have to do is go into any of the "Official X players" threads, and you will see it. Don't use ignorance to defend a bad Jak trade.
From a salary standpoint this is just simply not true. In no shape or form would all 3 of these guys still be on our roster.
I can easily argue that the Jakob trade was so that we can stop putting Barnes at the 5 with an actual capable 5
OAKLEY_2 wrote:Scase wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:
The board never liked Poetl even as a #9 pick and before Poetl round two they were slamming Paskal and Fred religiously. Poetl just took over scapegoat status for the fan whiners. It was an anti tank move. Tank doctrine must always be right. Part of that whining is the FO waited too long to rebuild and yes that is the ultimate hindsight position. If we take the position we are always flawed then we can say we always must tank. One legit critique we never hear was overpaying for Quickley which might prove to be a bad allocation of money in a rebuild. Or that paying Olynyk was any kind of smart investment. My question is why do fans believe Agbaji can even be a rotation piece? We gave away the Collier pick pretty much as price to dump Porter and Lewis.
The Jak trade was bad when it happened, and it's even worse now. If it was such a good trade, we'd still have FVV/OG/Siakam on the team, but it wasn't. It was a misguided attempt to give an extremely flawed core yet another kick at the can, and it failed. Pro/anti tank doesn't matter, we won 25 games last year, and it was indisputable, that we were accomplishing nothing the second that play in game ended.
As for the overpaying Quickley comment, well I guess you just choose to ignore things. Cause the thread about his signing was filled by nothing but discussions about whether or not he was overpaid, I said he was overpaid, as did a bunch of other people. The Olynyk trade has been complained about a fair amount, I think it was a stupid trade for a player we could have just signed in FA and could've used the pick in another more meaningful trade. And people have been dumping on Ochai (rightfully so) a lot more lately, and a bunch of us since the trade was made. But you dont hear as much stink about the trade, because it wasn't that big of a trade.
Just because you don't remember, or pay attention to it, doesn't mean these convos aren't happening. Like all you have to do is go into any of the "Official X players" threads, and you will see it. Don't use ignorance to defend a bad Jak trade.
Not defending the trade and not dissing paying IQ. The constant bellyaching is disrespectful to the player who happens to be a legit starter. He is here now. On a good contract. He isn't on the downside of his career. He is not a black hole with the ball. I think we would have the real picture of Poetl in the playoffs should our max players turn a significant corner and produce winning basketball. In a perfect world he bridges the team until Chomche is in the rotation. Is anyone willing to wait?
Scase wrote:No one is complaining about Jak, no one is disrespecting Jak. People are complaining about the trade, and the value attached to it, that's all anyone has ever complained about.