Kevin Durant's legacy

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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#81 » by CodeBreaker » Sat Apr 12, 2025 2:38 pm

yellowknifer wrote:
CodeBreaker wrote:
Handlez wrote:
Durant won both finals MVP awards because he was the best player on the team.

with his caliber, of course he'd win the MVP award for getting wide open buckets from the effect of Curry's gravity.

What has he done outside Curry? Yea, none.


You can criticize the guy for sure. But this is quite the hot take. He recently almost single handily willed the nets down two stars to the finals against a really good Celtics team.

"almost"

He was really good at doing almosts. Since you're nitpicking, he almost took down the 73-9 Warriors team, only to choke the series away with those horrible Game 6 and Game 7. Let's stop praising "almosts" and judge players for what they have actually done.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#82 » by tsherkin » Sat Apr 12, 2025 2:46 pm

yellowknifer wrote: He recently almost single handily willed the nets down two stars to the finals against a really good Celtics team.


What? He was horrific against the Celtics in 2022, and when he played them in 2021, he had both Harden and Kyrie.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#83 » by Hook_Em » Sat Apr 12, 2025 2:59 pm

tsherkin wrote:
yellowknifer wrote: He recently almost single handily willed the nets down two stars to the finals against a really good Celtics team.


What? He was horrific against the Celtics in 2022, and when he played them in 2021, he had both Harden and Kyrie.


And vs the Bucks their 2nd leading scorer in total points was Blake Griffin.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#84 » by tsherkin » Sat Apr 12, 2025 3:05 pm

Hook_Em wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
yellowknifer wrote: He recently almost single handily willed the nets down two stars to the finals against a really good Celtics team.


What? He was horrific against the Celtics in 2022, and when he played them in 2021, he had both Harden and Kyrie.


And vs the Bucks their 2nd leading scorer in total points was Blake Griffin.


Mmm, since yellowknifer was referencing the Celtics, I was only looking at that part.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#85 » by iye6ry4e7r3 » Sat Apr 12, 2025 3:24 pm

He will always be the guy who left his team to go to the team than beat him because that was the easier road.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#86 » by shi-woo » Sat Apr 12, 2025 3:37 pm

CodeBreaker wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:
CodeBreaker wrote:with his caliber, of course he'd win the MVP award for getting wide open buckets from the effect of Curry's gravity.

What has he done outside Curry? Yea, none.


You can criticize the guy for sure. But this is quite the hot take. He recently almost single handily willed the nets down two stars to the finals against a really good Celtics team.

"almost"

He was really good at doing almosts. Since you're nitpicking, he almost took down the 73-9 Warriors team, only to choke the series away with those horrible Game 6 and Game 7. Let's stop praising "almosts" and judge players for what they have actually done.


The problem with this take which a lot of anti KD fans don't want to address, is why does LeBron, the greatest "winner" of his era get a pass, when he's never won a title on a team he didn't hand pick, and played with 3 other Top 5 guys in AD Luka and Wade, and other Top All-NBA dudes in Kyrie, Love, and Bosh...

What has LeBron and Kobe done without another Top 10 player on their team? Literally nothing. KD is the only star that was expected to just sit their and take it, the LeBron show was too important and didn't have room for a co-star until Curry kicked the doors down.

If we are going to go at KD for going to the best situation possible, than we need to do that same for all the stars from that terrible era. If the LeBron propaganda machine wasn't in full effect to do the Hero-Villain-Comeback arc, he would still be the villain. Why don't people cry about him leaving Miami? Melo forced his way to NY to play with Chandler and Amare, two other ANBA guys. What about dudes like KAwhii, George, AD, Dwight, Paul ect who forced their way to LA? Deron forced a trade to BRK to play with Lopez, Pierce, KG, and Joe. Kyrie did the same.

We don't care about those guys because they didn't win when they did this. LeBron won. KD won. So we hate them. KD did it in a way that made the formers accomplishments look weak, so we hate him even more. No one says Wade lost shine because of LeBron joining like they do Curry.

As long as LeBron stans and the NBA media in general refuse to acknowledge that KD going to GSW was just the natural counterbalance to LeBron's superteam forming habits, we will get no where with these discussions. It was an arms race, and one guy showed no self restrait, respect for the sport, owned the media and an agency company, so the other guy had to do what he had to do to make sure he got his. That's just how it is...

Most of yall arn't docking LBJ, so it just becomes tit for tat, and whenever you disrespect KD, i'll point out LEBron probably did it first.

No one cares about 73wins when you don't win the title. If healthy in 2015, Cavs win that one too. KD going to the Warriors made the NBA broken, but it also gave the NBA the only team that could match the CAVS with literally 3 All-NBA players and a deep squad of proven veteran role players. Cavs also stormed through the NBA during that time, making 4 Finals in a row...But that's all because of LeBron's greatness though, right? And not because he teamed up with 2 other All-NBA players.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#87 » by Mr B » Sat Apr 12, 2025 3:59 pm

Joao Saraiva wrote:His time with PHX is over. What does this run do to his legacy?

I believe it has to hurt. He left GSW to prove he could win in his own team. Not only did it not happen in BKN with the big 3, it also didn't happen with PHX and will end up with them missing the playoffs. Not that I believe that missing the playoffs is KD's fault but at this point seems like going away from GSW ended up hurting his legacy.

What are the overall thoughts of the GB on this?

Is his window to win as the man closed?

As a superstar player with the ability to carry his own team to a title, yes that time has passed. His best bet to try and win a title is to team up with guys like Kyrie and AD.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#88 » by jagz » Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:12 pm

The selective memory that comes into play when evaluating KD's career never ceases to astound.

For anyone who judges him for going to Golden State, I've got two words for you (no, it's not "LeBron James," but I'll get to him shortly): Russell Westbrook. Now, I'm not taking a cheap shot at Russ, who is a first ballot HOF-er, has unfairly become the NBA's designated scapegoat, and (despite a few highly visible screw-ups--which had tectonic effects--at the tail end of the season) has played pretty damn well for the Nuggets this year.

But, possibly the two words that best describe Westbrook's playing style are "chaotic" and "erratic." He was about the worst possible superstar PG for Durant to be paired with. Imagine an alternate history where a young KD is paired with a young Chris Paul. How differently both of those players would be perceived now. The mind boggles.

Anyway, KD's decision was justified based on the Westbrook factor alone. But, what people also forget is what the energy was like during the early years of the super team era. The vibe when it came to putting together assemblages of mega-talent was very much "if you've got a once in a lifetime opportunity to put a team like that together, you have to do it. It started with the Celtics, who are given a pass because their Big 3 was seen as past its prime.

The worst offenders were unquestionably the Heatles, who inexplicably are also given a pass. Adding KD to the Warriors still only gave them a second superstar. The Heat had three, notwithstanding the sacrifices made by Bosh and, later, Wade. (James and Wade also deprived NBA fans of what should have been years of ECF classics.

Now, let's fast-forward past the titles and FMVPs with the Warriors that Durant somehow doesn't get credit for. Instead, let's jump ahead to 2019 when a nowhere-near-ready-to-play KD was guilt-tripped into suiting up because Kahwi and Toronto were taking the belt to them. Well, GSW managed to avoid a gentleman's sweep...at the cost of a full year of KD's peak.

Then, jump ahead to 2021 with the Nets when, if Durant's shoe size was 1/2 size smaller, he would have one of the greatest shots in playoff history to his credit--and possibly one of the greatest title runs too.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#89 » by Statlanta » Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:25 pm

Joao Saraiva wrote:His time with PHX is over. What does this run do to his legacy?

I believe it has to hurt. He left GSW to prove he could win in his own team. Not only did it not happen in BKN with the big 3, it also didn't happen with PHX and will end up with them missing the playoffs. Not that I believe that missing the playoffs is KD's fault but at this point seems like going away from GSW ended up hurting his legacy.

What are the overall thoughts of the GB on this?

Is his window to win as the man closed?


The window is closed, Durant never wanted to be the man per his own words and Durant's personal medical rap sheet never led to having a winning team unless a lot of talent was stacked in Durant's favor.

Kevin Durant rolled the dice on an injury prone teammate(Irving) and lost. Can't even say Durant was too unlucky either because he also relied on Curry who was injury prone.

Durant's not good enough to win as the man anymore and has not been for a good while. He's too old and unreliable as the main guy.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#90 » by CodeBreaker » Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:48 pm

shi-woo wrote:
CodeBreaker wrote:
yellowknifer wrote:
You can criticize the guy for sure. But this is quite the hot take. He recently almost single handily willed the nets down two stars to the finals against a really good Celtics team.

"almost"

He was really good at doing almosts. Since you're nitpicking, he almost took down the 73-9 Warriors team, only to choke the series away with those horrible Game 6 and Game 7. Let's stop praising "almosts" and judge players for what they have actually done.


The problem with this take which a lot of anti KD fans don't want to address, is why does LeBron, the greatest "winner" of his era get a pass, when he's never won a title on a team he didn't hand pick, and played with 3 other Top 5 guys in AD Luka and Wade, and other Top All-NBA dudes in Kyrie, Love, and Bosh...

What has LeBron and Kobe done without another Top 10 player on their team? Literally nothing. KD is the only star that was expected to just sit their and take it, the LeBron show was too important and didn't have room for a co-star until Curry kicked the doors down.

If we are going to go at KD for going to the best situation possible, than we need to do that same for all the stars from that terrible era. If the LeBron propaganda machine wasn't in full effect to do the Hero-Villain-Comeback arc, he would still be the villain. Why don't people cry about him leaving Miami? Melo forced his way to NY to play with Chandler and Amare, two other ANBA guys. What about dudes like KAwhii, George, AD, Dwight, Paul ect who forced their way to LA? Deron forced a trade to BRK to play with Lopez, Pierce, KG, and Joe. Kyrie did the same.

We don't care about those guys because they didn't win when they did this. LeBron won. KD won. So we hate them. KD did it in a way that made the formers accomplishments look weak, so we hate him even more. No one says Wade lost shine because of LeBron joining like they do Curry.

As long as LeBron stans and the NBA media in general refuse to acknowledge that KD going to GSW was just the natural counterbalance to LeBron's superteam forming habits, we will get no where with these discussions. It was an arms race, and one guy showed no self restrait, respect for the sport, owned the media and an agency company, so the other guy had to do what he had to do to make sure he got his. That's just how it is...

Most of yall arn't docking LBJ, so it just becomes tit for tat, and whenever you disrespect KD, i'll point out LEBron probably did it first.

No one cares about 73wins when you don't win the title. If healthy in 2015, Cavs win that one too. KD going to the Warriors made the NBA broken, but it also gave the NBA the only team that could match the CAVS with literally 3 All-NBA players and a deep squad of proven veteran role players. Cavs also stormed through the NBA during that time, making 4 Finals in a row...But that's all because of LeBron's greatness though, right? And not because he teamed up with 2 other All-NBA players.

Did LeBron or Kobe ever join the team that whooped his arse and sent him home?

Okay next.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#91 » by Doctor MJ » Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:51 pm

Joao Saraiva wrote:His time with PHX is over. What does this run do to his legacy?

I believe it has to hurt. He left GSW to prove he could win in his own team. Not only did it not happen in BKN with the big 3, it also didn't happen with PHX and will end up with them missing the playoffs. Not that I believe that missing the playoffs is KD's fault but at this point seems like going away from GSW ended up hurting his legacy.

What are the overall thoughts of the GB on this?

Is his window to win as the man closed?


PHX run to his legacy? I agree, I would say this has hurt him.

BKN? So this is more complicated. It was a disappointment relative to hopes, and there are various off-court things that hurt, but he also carried a team in iconic fashion that while injured just barely - by a toe - lost to the eventual champs with KD giving his absolute all.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#92 » by NO-KG-AI » Sat Apr 12, 2025 6:10 pm

yellowknifer wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:
TheWitcher wrote:Legend, Champion

One of the greatest offensive players to ever touch the hardwood.

GOAT Team USA player ever

Top 15 all time


Right or wrong, his legacy isn’t going to be “champion.” He lost the narrative and PR battle badly over the years compared to other guys winning titles.


He won a finals MVP and posted crazy numbers while hitting big shots and playing great defense. How is he not a champion when he is literally a champion?


He is a champion. But perception is everything.

Darren Sharper is a legend and a champion, but that’s not gonna be his legacy or the first thing people say lol. There is gonna be “but…”

That’s a more extreme example for sure.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#93 » by Homer38 » Sat Apr 12, 2025 6:31 pm

jagz wrote:The selective memory that comes into play when evaluating KD's career never ceases to astound.

For anyone who judges him for going to Golden State, I've got two words for you (no, it's not "LeBron James," but I'll get to him shortly): Russell Westbrook. Now, I'm not taking a cheap shot at Russ, who is a first ballot HOF-er, has unfairly become the NBA's designated scapegoat, and (despite a few highly visible screw-ups--which had tectonic effects--at the tail end of the season) has played pretty damn well for the Nuggets this year.

But, possibly the two words that best describe Westbrook's playing style are "chaotic" and "erratic." He was about the worst possible superstar PG for Durant to be paired with. Imagine an alternate history where a young KD is paired with a young Chris Paul. How differently both of those players would be perceived now. The mind boggles.

Anyway, KD's decision was justified based on the Westbrook factor alone. But, what people also forget is what the energy was like during the early years of the super team era. The vibe when it came to putting together assemblages of mega-talent was very much "if you've got a once in a lifetime opportunity to put a team like that together, you have to do it. It started with the Celtics, who are given a pass because their Big 3 was seen as past its prime.

The worst offenders were unquestionably the Heatles, who inexplicably are also given a pass. Adding KD to the Warriors still only gave them a second superstar. The Heat had three, notwithstanding the sacrifices made by Bosh and, later, Wade. (James and Wade also deprived NBA fans of what should have been years of ECF classics.

Now, let's fast-forward past the titles and FMVPs with the Warriors that Durant somehow doesn't get credit for. Instead, let's jump ahead to 2019 when a nowhere-near-ready-to-play KD was guilt-tripped into suiting up because Kahwi and Toronto were taking the belt to them. Well, GSW managed to avoid a gentleman's sweep...at the cost of a full year of KD's peak.

Then, jump ahead to 2021 with the Nets when, if Durant's shoe size was 1/2 size smaller, he would have one of the greatest shots in playoff history to his credit--and possibly one of the greatest title runs too.


At that time in 2016,the warriors were champions in 2015,make the finals and very close to win in 2016 despite a superhuman effort by LeBron and a very good finals by Kyrie,they also won 67 games in 2015 and 73 in 2016 and they beat Durant and the thunder in the playoffs in 2016

Not even comparable to LeBron who never face Wade in his career in the playoffs and the heat were not close to be a contender from 2007 to 2010
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#94 » by Raps in 4 » Sat Apr 12, 2025 6:36 pm

He's in the same category of player as Pippen, Barkley, Malone, etc. Obvious all-time great, but not good enough to lead his own team to success. He'll end his career as a top-30 player all-time. Him riding Steph's coattails for a few years might trick some pundits into overrating him, but I think most will agree he's in that secondary tier of ATG.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#95 » by Dubnation » Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:22 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Dubnation wrote:
facothomas22 wrote:He would've been viewed a forgotten star if he didn't pull one of the weakest moves in NBA history by joining a 73 win team. Basically modern day George Gervin with a MVP award.


A NON Championship team. 73 wins are irrelevant.


They won the title in 2015 with a 67 wins team.....And KD could not beat that team in 2016


We're not talking about 2015, are we?
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#96 » by Homer38 » Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:24 pm

Dubnation wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
Dubnation wrote:
A NON Championship team. 73 wins are irrelevant.


They won the title in 2015 with a 67 wins team.....And KD could not beat that team in 2016


We're not talking about 2015, are we?



Who care....It was still a title team not too long ago back in 2016
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#97 » by MrBigShot » Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:27 pm

One of the greatest players ever, and one of the best scorers ever, who's career did not much up with how talented he was. KD should've been consensus top 10 at this stage of his career. In his MVP season KD was absolutely incredible.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#98 » by shi-woo » Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:42 pm

CodeBreaker wrote: Did LeBron or Kobe ever join the team that whooped his arse and sent him home?

Okay next.


Why is this important though? Other than your fake expectation of greatness, and some media driven narrative of what people should value. I agree, but unfortunately for me that narrative was shattered to pieces during The Decision, and then again when the "best player" hoped ship again to form the best team in the league, again. 2 times before KD did it, going to 6 strait finals because of it :lol:

LeBron couldn't get past the Celtic's, that was the whole point of creating the superteams in the first place, to make sure without a doubt that he was on the best team with no competition. So again, what point are we trying to make? That LeBron was the first one to give up and form a superteam?

It's so obvious that the hate toward KD at this point is just more LeBron propaganda.

Whenever a Top 5 player forces their way to play with another Top 5 player, or manufactures a team to be better than the rest, it is clear that they are going to create dynasty conditions, and we shouldn't applaud it.

KD did it for 3 years. LeBron has done it for over 14 years of his career...Yet one is a snake and the other the Chosen One. Why does the cooking method matter when the ingredients and final dish taste exactly the same?
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#99 » by tsherkin » Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:47 pm

shi-woo wrote:LeBron couldn't get past the Celtic's, that was the whole point of creating the superteams in the first place,


Actually, the Celtics would be the first of those superteams. KG was a 22/12/4 player who led the league in rebounding and was a high-end defender the year before he joined the Celtics. Pierce was a 25/6/4 player the year prior but didn't make the AS team due to injuries. Ray Allen was about a 26/5/4 player the season before joining Boston.

So of course you needed some proper juice to go after a team like that.

KD is one of the best scorers we've ever seen. At his peak, he was among the best offensive players in the league overall. He's been up and down in the playoffs and he's a bit weaker than his raw APG might indicate in terms of his passing, and of course very much worse than someone like Lebron or Harden or Luka in that facet of the game, which limits his overall utility.

There is no doubt, however, that he's been a remarkable player. Not a top 15 kind of guy, but sort of a super-charged George Gervin type.
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Re: Kevin Durant's legacy 

Post#100 » by shi-woo » Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:52 pm

Homer38 wrote:
jagz wrote:The selective memory that comes into play when evaluating KD's career never ceases to astound.

For anyone who judges him for going to Golden State, I've got two words for you (no, it's not "LeBron James," but I'll get to him shortly): Russell Westbrook. Now, I'm not taking a cheap shot at Russ, who is a first ballot HOF-er, has unfairly become the NBA's designated scapegoat, and (despite a few highly visible screw-ups--which had tectonic effects--at the tail end of the season) has played pretty damn well for the Nuggets this year.

But, possibly the two words that best describe Westbrook's playing style are "chaotic" and "erratic." He was about the worst possible superstar PG for Durant to be paired with. Imagine an alternate history where a young KD is paired with a young Chris Paul. How differently both of those players would be perceived now. The mind boggles.

Anyway, KD's decision was justified based on the Westbrook factor alone. But, what people also forget is what the energy was like during the early years of the super team era. The vibe when it came to putting together assemblages of mega-talent was very much "if you've got a once in a lifetime opportunity to put a team like that together, you have to do it. It started with the Celtics, who are given a pass because their Big 3 was seen as past its prime.

The worst offenders were unquestionably the Heatles, who inexplicably are also given a pass. Adding KD to the Warriors still only gave them a second superstar. The Heat had three, notwithstanding the sacrifices made by Bosh and, later, Wade. (James and Wade also deprived NBA fans of what should have been years of ECF classics.

Now, let's fast-forward past the titles and FMVPs with the Warriors that Durant somehow doesn't get credit for. Instead, let's jump ahead to 2019 when a nowhere-near-ready-to-play KD was guilt-tripped into suiting up because Kahwi and Toronto were taking the belt to them. Well, GSW managed to avoid a gentleman's sweep...at the cost of a full year of KD's peak.

Then, jump ahead to 2021 with the Nets when, if Durant's shoe size was 1/2 size smaller, he would have one of the greatest shots in playoff history to his credit--and possibly one of the greatest title runs too.


At that time in 2016,the warriors were champions in 2015,make the finals and very close to win in 2016 despite a superhuman effort by LeBron and a very good finals by Kyrie,they also won 67 games in 2015 and 73 in 2016 and they beat Durant and the thunder in the playoffs in 2016

Not even comparable to LeBron who never face Wade in his career in the playoffs and the heat were not close to be a contender from 2007 to 2010


You're the type of person that believes LBJ went to LA and was excited to play with the kids, and were absolutely shocked when AD requested a trade their the first chance he could :lol:

People really underestimate the propaganda from the LeBron camp, and how effective and planned out everything this man does it. He owns an agency and half the media at this point. Yall point at the Heat Lakers and Cavs and say "See see they had recent lottery picks, those teams were trash!"

What is the world does the year prior have to do with the year the floodgates of talent opened up? Or do people still believe that fake mantra that teams can't win the first year assembled. Sure didn't matter to the Celtics, Heat, or Warriors :lol:

As a Red Sox fan, i've watched my team go from worst to first multiple times, mainly because of the turn over of the roster. Again, why does LeBron get a pass for this, it's just as effective of a strategy as joining an already established culture.

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