Thibs Thibs and More Thibs.

[BKlutch]

At this point I don't expect Thibs to be fired since the team made it to the ECF but I don't think he should be judged solely on the results of how far the team made it. Honestly they were just as close to losing in the 1st round as they were to making it to the finals. It took a historic 21-0 run against an inexperienced Pistons team led by Payne who I don't believe played a single minute in the 2nd half of any game after that outside of garbage time to win game 1. That along with the non-call on the Hart foul probably saved Thibs job.

We should be so good that we don't have to resort to desperation, miraculous plays or unusual moves to win. But we're not that good, and I believe we should judge him by his coaching in all of the games. There are so many instances where we've been troubled by what we've seen. Even the best can have an off day. They just don't have many of them.

[JayTWill]

Again, I point out Game 6 close out versus Boston when the game was well in hand and JB had to go up to Tom to tell him to take the starters out. That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen, it was like Tom was locked into a trance or something.

That's not normal man. I dunno what else to say at this point.

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

True but they actually lost game 1 of the ECF by going back to his most played 5 man lineup.

[MrDollarBills]

Again, I point out Game 6 close out versus Boston when the game was well in hand and JB had to go up to Tom to tell him to take the starters out. That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen, it was like Tom was locked into a trance or something.

That's not normal man. I dunno what else to say at this point.

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

During the game, I thought Thibs was worried he'd have a heart attack if the game were lost, so he was too anxious to send in the bench. Of course, you can't really tell by looking at him. But all the talk was he had to make the ECF to keep his job. Thibs has no other life besides basketball, so I'm sure keeping his job is incredibly important to him. That's why I think making him GM would be a win-win.

This is a good reminder that there is a human being involved here. Regardless of how we feel about how he approaches the job.

[JXL]

Watch on YouTube

This video explains everything of why Karen Thibodeau is a floor raiser, but will never be a ceiling breaker.

[kNicksGmen]

19 mpg in the playoffs is a pretty sizeable role off the bench and he hit a game winning three on us

I will say he wasn't worth keeping at the $13 to $16 million a season he is making with the Pacers.

We had Achiuwa who could do most of what Toppin could do, EXCEPT for hitting threes consistently which is absolutely crucial and the reason why he only got minutes for us as a 3rd string Center.

when did he hit a game winning 3? are you talking about the 3 he hit when they were up 7 with 40 something seconds left? i wouldn't even call it a dagger.

A shot that puts the game out of reach is generally considered a dagger.

But that's not really what's being debated. The point is that we need a coach who values and trusts his bench. Obi is just an example of how Thibs wasted a valuable bench player.

True but that shot he hit made the pacers win probability go from 98.2 to 99.9% or something like that. So wouldn't even consider it a dagger and definitely not a game winning shot. I agree with your point though about Thibs.

[BKlutch]

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

During the game, I thought Thibs was worried he'd have a heart attack if the game were lost, so he was too anxious to send in the bench. Of course, you can't really tell by looking at him. But all the talk was he had to make the ECF to keep his job. Thibs has no other life besides basketball, so I'm sure keeping his job is incredibly important to him. That's why I think making him GM would be a win-win.

This is a good reminder that there is a human being involved here. Regardless of how we feel about how he approaches the job.

Yes.

[MrDollarBills]

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

During the game, I thought Thibs was worried he'd have a heart attack if the game were lost, so he was too anxious to send in the bench. Of course, you can't really tell by looking at him. But all the talk was he had to make the ECF to keep his job. Thibs has no other life besides basketball, so I'm sure keeping his job is incredibly important to him. That's why I think making him GM would be a win-win.

not sure how excited i'd be about GM thibs. maybe, executive director of toughness and togetherness?

Yeah I think Tom should remain with the organization regardless but if he does move on from coaching it should be in one of those roles where he picks up a check just for being around, offering feedback, etc. As critical as I am, the dude has forgotten more about hoops than I know.

We already got a GM.

[Barcs]

Have the Knicks ever had a deep bench under Thibs? I know people say he doesn't use them anyway, but I think one of the reasons is because they aren't that good. You can't develop players that aren't good, and he did actually try to play some of them in the Pacers series. Thibs isn't going anywhere as expected. Build on what you have.

The Knicks overachieved by beating Boston and without the luckiest shot in NBA history, the Pacers lose game 1 and who knows, maybe they are in the finals now.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Again, I point out Game 6 close out versus Boston when the game was well in hand and JB had to go up to Tom to tell him to take the starters out. That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen, it was like Tom was locked into a trance or something.

That's not normal man. I dunno what else to say at this point.

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

True but they actually lost game 1 of the ECF by going back to his most played 5 man lineup.

crazy to think that putting the starters back in was a mistake, but it was.

we were like, "the defensive unit got them on the ropes." maybe he wanted them to experience the defense needed to close a game. the run was also extended for some of those guys on the floor IIRC. another rationale i heard was a desire to keep playing and not being too passive. i thought if there were ever a time to "run guys into the ground" it was then.

but even with that decision, the lead should have been safe. one of many coaching and performance failures leading to that epic calamity.

[Barcs]

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

True but they actually lost game 1 of the ECF by going back to his most played 5 man lineup.

crazy to think that putting the starters back in was a mistake, but it was.

we were like, "the defensive unit got them on the ropes." maybe he wanted them to experience the defense needed to close a game. the run was also extended for some of those guys on the floor IIRC. another rationale i heard was a desire to keep playing and not being too passive. i thought if there were ever a time to "run guys into the ground" it was then.

but even with that decision, the lead should have been safe. one of many coaching and performance failures leading to that epic calamity.

Yeah, I don't think putting in Captain clutch to close the game was a bad decision. The players made a lot of mistakes, they weren't taking enough time off the clock each possession, they were rushing, committing turnovers like crazy and the Pacers just couldn't miss. They got lucky.

[MrDollarBills]

Have the Knicks ever had a deep bench under Thibs? I know people say he doesn't use them anyway, but I think one of the reasons is because they aren't that good. You can't develop players that aren't good, and he did actually try to play some of them in the Pacers series. Thibs isn't going anywhere as expected. Build on what you have.

The Knicks overachieved by beating Boston and without the luckiest shot in NBA history, the Pacers lose game 1 and who knows, maybe they are in the finals now.

There really isn't a good reason as to why Wright and Shamet weren't in the rotation well before the playoffs.

The rookies aside, those two guys and Precious should have been apart of the plan as we ramped up for the post season.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Watch on YouTube

This video explains everything of why Karen Thibodeau is a floor raiser, but will never be a ceiling breaker.

you've been trying to pump this for a few days now.

what is it supposed to mean? we'll need to know that if we're to help it take hold.

[Jeff Van Gully]

True but they actually lost game 1 of the ECF by going back to his most played 5 man lineup.

crazy to think that putting the starters back in was a mistake, but it was.

we were like, "the defensive unit got them on the ropes." maybe he wanted them to experience the defense needed to close a game. the run was also extended for some of those guys on the floor IIRC. another rationale i heard was a desire to keep playing and not being too passive. i thought if there were ever a time to "run guys into the ground" it was then.

but even with that decision, the lead should have been safe. one of many coaching and performance failures leading to that epic calamity.

Yeah, I don't think putting in Captain clutch to close the game was a bad decision. The players made a lot of mistakes, they weren't taking enough time off the clock each possession, they were rushing, committing turnovers like crazy and the Pacers just couldn't miss. They got lucky.

we def created the opportunity they siezed

[MrDollarBills]

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

True but they actually lost game 1 of the ECF by going back to his most played 5 man lineup.

crazy to think that putting the starters back in was a mistake, but it was.

we were like, "the defensive unit got them on the ropes." maybe he wanted them to experience the defense needed to close a game. the run was also extended for some of those guys on the floor IIRC. another rationale i heard was a desire to keep playing and not being too passive. i thought if there were ever a time to "run guys into the ground" it was then.

but even with that decision, the lead should have been safe. one of many coaching and performance failures leading to that epic calamity.

I'm not trying to rush the summer but that loss is gonna sting me until October.

Or maybe July if we make some incredible moves. Either or.

[JayTWill]

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

True but they actually lost game 1 of the ECF by going back to his most played 5 man lineup.

crazy to think that putting the starters back in was a mistake, but it was.

we were like, "the defensive unit got them on the ropes." maybe he wanted them to experience the defense needed to close a game. the run was also extended for some of those guys on the floor IIRC. another rationale i heard was a desire to keep playing and not being too passive. i thought if there were ever a time to "run guys into the ground" it was then.

but even with that decision, the lead should have been safe. one of many coaching and performance failures leading to that epic calamity.

Yeah, I would have had no problem if Thibs just left Mikal and Brunson on the bench to close the game. It seems crazy to think bringing back in your main 5 guys would be a bad idea until you realize they hadn't been playing well together for months and were already -10 in that same game without playing a single minute together in the 4th until he brought Mikal and Brunson back in with 5 minutes to go.

Thibs has played the starters for almost entire 2nd halves of regular season games in the middle of the year in an attempt to get a win but for some reason he couldn't keep a lineup that was working out there to finish the 4th. Maybe Mitch would have gassed out if he played 25 minutes instead of 21. Maybe Deuce's lack of offense in place of Brunson would have been exposed eventually but there was no reason to play the 5 guys that don't play well together in that moment.

[DOT]

Have the Knicks ever had a deep bench under Thibs? I know people say he doesn't use them anyway, but I think one of the reasons is because they aren't that good. You can't develop players that aren't good, and he did actually try to play some of them in the Pacers series. Thibs isn't going anywhere as expected. Build on what you have.

The Knicks overachieved by beating Boston and without the luckiest shot in NBA history, the Pacers lose game 1 and who knows, maybe they are in the finals now.

There really isn't a good reason as to why Wright and Shamet weren't in the rotation well before the playoffs.

The rookies aside, those two guys and Precious should have been apart of the plan as we ramped up for the post season.

Shamet played 30 total minutes over the first 14 playoff games

The last 4, he played 52 and just shot 7/13 from 3, with a +/- of +21 (only had a negative in game 6, at -1)

So is he not good, or was Thibs just not playing him until he started floundering?

Like, you can't seriously tell me that our bench is that much worse than Indy's bench. It's not a good bench, but it's not as bereft of talent as people say.

[rajajackal]

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

During the game, I thought Thibs was worried he'd have a heart attack if the game were lost, so he was too anxious to send in the bench. Of course, you can't really tell by looking at him. But all the talk was he had to make the ECF to keep his job. Thibs has no other life besides basketball, so I'm sure keeping his job is incredibly important to him. That's why I think making him GM would be a win-win.

not sure how excited i'd be about GM thibs. maybe, executive director of toughness and togetherness?

was thinking "executive coach" might be a fitting title culture don, let someone else do the hands-on stuff

[The KnicksFix]

Honest Q — Do nba teams ever reach/win the Finals with a new coach? Seems to me it’s a lot less frequent (if ever).

Off the top of my head, Steve Kerr(rookie) took over after Mark Jackson and immediately won a championship in his first year.

Raptors Nick nurse(rookie) took over after Casey and immediately won a championship in his first year.

Pat the rat(well-experienced coach) booted Van gundy and immediately led the Heat to a championship that same season.

Phil Jackson too - didn’t win in his first year with the bulls but won his first year with the lakers
Mazzulla last year

[Iron Mantis]

Honest Q — Do nba teams ever reach/win the Finals with a new coach? Seems to me it’s a lot less frequent (if ever).

Off the top of my head, Steve Kerr(rookie) took over after Mark Jackson and immediately won a championship in his first year.

Raptors Nick nurse(rookie) took over after Casey and immediately won a championship in his first year.

Pat the rat(well-experienced coach) booted Van gundy and immediately led the Heat to a championship that same season.

Phil Jackson too
Mazzulla last year

Odds are in our favor.

With this championship level roster, a fresh mind and voice in the head coaching spot guarantees us a championship.

[thebuzzardman]

Have the Knicks ever had a deep bench under Thibs? I know people say he doesn't use them anyway, but I think one of the reasons is because they aren't that good. You can't develop players that aren't good, and he did actually try to play some of them in the Pacers series. Thibs isn't going anywhere as expected. Build on what you have.

The Knicks overachieved by beating Boston and without the luckiest shot in NBA history, the Pacers lose game 1 and who knows, maybe they are in the finals now.

There really isn't a good reason as to why Wright and Shamet weren't in the rotation well before the playoffs.

The rookies aside, those two guys and Precious should have been apart of the plan as we ramped up for the post season.

Shamet played 30 total minutes over the first 14 playoff games

The last 4, he played 52 and just shot 7/13 from 3, with a +/- of +21 (only had a negative in game 6, at -1)

So is he not good, or was Thibs just not playing him until he started floundering?

Like, you can't seriously tell me that our bench is that much worse than Indy's bench. It's not a good bench, but it's not as bereft of talent as people say.

Quoted for accuracy