Raps are Good But CAUTIOUSLY optimistic thread

[everdiso]

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[Anticon]

I'm going to defend Zach Lowe. Although he finds this combination of players to be a weird fit (I agree with him), he consistently defended them prior to the start of the season.

I find Simmons entertaining, but his take that there's no way for the Raptors to improve when they still have all their picks and a young core to build around is super bizarre.

The vast majority of podcast early in free agency said this exact same message over and over and over. Weird roster, no way to improve, over the tax. Over/under comes out at 33.5 and they dig the under too. It goes up to 39.5 because that line was obviously stupid. Then nothing happens but slowly a trickle of podcasters start to say, roster doesn’t fit but I think they have talent and .500 upside, someone in the east has to win, still too expensive, weird roster, blah blah blah. The vast majority of these guys don’t have time to cover the entire league so the just go with the flow of a few guys that have the time to do that. Just people being lazy af their jobs and seeing an easy target/take and piling on with near zero research. Podcast echo chamber.

tbh, it is a bit of a traditional misfit

Hawks team has more talent than us
if you looking at the SL, it's kinda weird.

It's really a testament to Darko's coaching ability that he's helping us win regular season games

It seems 95% of it was they didn't like the contracts independently and together. And, without doing any actual basketball analysis, they assumed that would lead to poor performance.

Honestly pretty embarassing to see these clips. Especially the guy talking about how he just dislikes Ingram's game based on aesthetics.

[everdiso]

https://www.nba.com/news/biggest-changes-usage-possession-time-2025-26


Ingram, Scottie, RJ all top-10 in Time of Possession % drops from last year to this year.


Really shows us the impact of having all of these good players playing together, and really should help them all be more efficient than usual.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Don't you love how there can be a million irrational negative threads that say we should replace Yak, and that our roster is a mess, that we should tank, and that organization is in shambles, but when we go 10 and to start the year somebody feels unnecessary to make a " cautiously" optimistic thread. Like we need to tiptoe with being positive.

I kind of wish that there maybe there would have been a cautiously pessimistic thread over the past decade, as maybe those on team negative would look a little bit less ridiculous.

[Appostis]

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I'm going to defend Zach Lowe. Although he finds this combination of players to be a weird fit (I agree with him), he consistently defended them prior to the start of the season.

I find Simmons entertaining, but his take that there's no way for the Raptors to improve when they still have all their picks and a young core to build around is super bizarre.

Even Lowe was far more negative about the team then I expected.

Truthfully I'm not sure I can think of a single media member who was high on the Raptors.

Not saying they really second in the East(expecting some regression of only due to a injury or 2) but really am looking forward to the amount of crow the media might have to eat if this holda up.

They are getting on their knees for Detroit but just seem disgruntled to give TO any praise.

[MoneyBall]

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I'm going to defend Zach Lowe. Although he finds this combination of players to be a weird fit (I agree with him), he consistently defended them prior to the start of the season.

I find Simmons entertaining, but his take that there's no way for the Raptors to improve when they still have all their picks and a young core to build around is super bizarre.

Even Lowe was far more negative about the team then I expected.

Truthfully I'm not sure I can think of a single media member who was high on the Raptors.

Not saying they really second in the East(expecting some regression of only due to a injury or 2) but really am looking forward to the amount of crow the media might have to eat if this holda up.

They are getting on their knees for Detroit but just seem disgruntled to give TO any praise.

Lowe said he was betting on a Scottie bounce back and picked over for predicted wins. He said they were too good in a weakened East to not have a winning record. I don't know, I think that was a fair assessment on his part.

[ATLTimekeeper]

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I'm going to defend Zach Lowe. Although he finds this combination of players to be a weird fit (I agree with him), he consistently defended them prior to the start of the season.

I find Simmons entertaining, but his take that there's no way for the Raptors to improve when they still have all their picks and a young core to build around is super bizarre.

The vast majority of podcast early in free agency said this exact same message over and over and over. Weird roster, no way to improve, over the tax. Over/under comes out at 33.5 and they dig the under too. It goes up to 39.5 because that line was obviously stupid. Then nothing happens but slowly a trickle of podcasters start to say, roster doesn’t fit but I think they have talent and .500 upside, someone in the east has to win, still too expensive, weird roster, blah blah blah. The vast majority of these guys don’t have time to cover the entire league so the just go with the flow of a few guys that have the time to do that. Just people being lazy af their jobs and seeing an easy target/take and piling on with near zero research. Podcast echo chamber.

Yeah, a couple of things going on. As you said, the podcast echo chamber of lazy takes and also it's impossible for these guys to ponder unlikely things happening. Like, they generally aren't predicting Detroit is going to be a playoff team last year. Their job is to muse on the status and penalize teams that want to win, and then penalize teams that want to lose after their first year of deciding to lose. Did any of them have Phoenix winning? They really don't understand how teams can pull it together after bad things have happened.

Lowe also said we were heading to be an unserious franchise when they fired Masai. He wasn't following us that closely, even though he likes to pander to the Toronto market because his wife is from here.

[anotherhomer]

I'm going to defend Zach Lowe. Although he finds this combination of players to be a weird fit (I agree with him), he consistently defended them prior to the start of the season.

I find Simmons entertaining, but his take that there's no way for the Raptors to improve when they still have all their picks and a young core to build around is super bizarre.

The vast majority of podcast early in free agency said this exact same message over and over and over. Weird roster, no way to improve, over the tax. Over/under comes out at 33.5 and they dig the under too. It goes up to 39.5 because that line was obviously stupid. Then nothing happens but slowly a trickle of podcasters start to say, roster doesn’t fit but I think they have talent and .500 upside, someone in the east has to win, still too expensive, weird roster, blah blah blah. The vast majority of these guys don’t have time to cover the entire league so the just go with the flow of a few guys that have the time to do that. Just people being lazy af their jobs and seeing an easy target/take and piling on with near zero research. Podcast echo chamber.

Yeah, a couple of things going on. As you said, the podcast echo chamber of lazy takes and also it's impossible for these guys to ponder unlikely things happening. Like, they generally aren't predicting Detroit is going to be a playoff team last year. Their job is to muse on the status and penalize teams that want to win, and then penalize teams that want to lose after their first year of deciding to lose. Did any of them have Phoenix winning? They really don't understand how teams can pull it together after bad things have happened.

Lowe also said we were heading to be an unserious franchise when they fired Masai. He wasn't following us that closely, even though he likes to pander to the Toronto market because his wife is from here.

tbh, a lot of ppl had concerns when masai was fired. But masai done such a good job putting the pieces together, that the team can prolly maintain this momentum for 1 or 2 seasons.

after that, it'll be up to Bobby Webster to hold this iteration of team together

[MoneyBall]

I'm going to defend Zach Lowe. Although he finds this combination of players to be a weird fit (I agree with him), he consistently defended them prior to the start of the season.

I find Simmons entertaining, but his take that there's no way for the Raptors to improve when they still have all their picks and a young core to build around is super bizarre.

The vast majority of podcast early in free agency said this exact same message over and over and over. Weird roster, no way to improve, over the tax. Over/under comes out at 33.5 and they dig the under too. It goes up to 39.5 because that line was obviously stupid. Then nothing happens but slowly a trickle of podcasters start to say, roster doesn’t fit but I think they have talent and .500 upside, someone in the east has to win, still too expensive, weird roster, blah blah blah. The vast majority of these guys don’t have time to cover the entire league so the just go with the flow of a few guys that have the time to do that. Just people being lazy af their jobs and seeing an easy target/take and piling on with near zero research. Podcast echo chamber.

Yeah, a couple of things going on. As you said, the podcast echo chamber of lazy takes and also it's impossible for these guys to ponder unlikely things happening. Like, they generally aren't predicting Detroit is going to be a playoff team last year. Their job is to muse on the status and penalize teams that want to win, and then penalize teams that want to lose after their first year of deciding to lose. Did any of them have Phoenix winning? They really don't understand how teams can pull it together after bad things have happened.

Lowe also said we were heading to be an unserious franchise when they fired Masai. He wasn't following us that closely, even though he likes to pander to the Toronto market because his wife is from here.

That was a concern most of us had when the news broke out, though. In no way would I penalize Lowe for having that take at the time.

[anotherhomer]

Tim has been always objective about the Raptors and in fact, one of few guys from ESPN who supported Raptors
This is a fair take from him. Basically, raps doing well mostly of health, which is true

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47039949/nba-first-month-lessons-intel-thunder-lakers-warriors-knicks-every-team#tor
What I'm hearing: Between moving on from longtime lead executive Masai Ujiri, this being coach Darko Rajakovic's third season, the Brandon Ingram trade and extension in February and new ownership taking over next year, the belief around the league entering this season was that the Raptors needed to make progress. Early on, Toronto has delivered -- in large part by having a mostly full healthy rotation of players for Rajakovic.

The team's top four players -- Ingram, Scottie Barnes, Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett -- have played in all 15 games, and their other 10 players have missed only a handful of games combined. In a league where there's been an epidemic of injuries early, just starting with the same group daily is enough to give teams a leg up. The 10-5 Raptors have taken full advantage of it, moving up to second in the muddled East.

[Axe Dragon]

The next time we lose two in a row will make everyone fall back down to earth faster than Icarus.

Pizza with anchovies party…

Axe


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[mtcan]

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Start at the 1 hour 8 min mark...Bill Simmons admits he might have been wrong and Perk might have been right about Raptors being top 6. Some positive Raptor talk from Simmons for a change.

[everdiso]

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Start at the 1 hour 8 min mark...Bill Simmons admits he might have been wrong and Perk might have been right about Raptors being top 6. Some positive Raptor talk from Simmons for a change.

lol tbh i don't actually care what simmons thinks i just like making fun of his boston homer ass.

[DonMega]

Entertaining enough to get me watching again. Maybe the Jays rubbed off on them

[dagger]

I'm intrigued by the 2021-22 team that won 48 games, which was something of a surprise all things considered, and not followed up with any success. So, I'd like to see how the team does this season but also what it can sustain beyond this season. That 2022 team was obviously flawed at C, and Masai traded away the 2022 FRP for Thad Young and the fourth pick of the second round. It didn't help the 2021-22 roster, although frankly, the loss of the FRP wasn't catastrophic - unless the team would have drafted Christian Braun or Andrew Nembhard at #20. Braun went #21, AN was the first pick of the second round. Christian Koloko, drafted at #34, had no long-term benefit for the team. The Raptors 905 that season were pretty good, but developed nobody that is on the Raptors roster today. And aside from Justin Champagne and Chris Boucher, none of the Raptors bench that season is on a major league roster. Even Dalano Banton is out, so neither of the Raptors second round picks in 2021 is in the league (the other was David Johnson).

So I hope that any moves made to sustain or improve the team beyond this season are measured, and do not overreach but show some patience for a long-term plan. There is probably. better draft coming up than 2022, can't be any worse, and if Bobby wants to use the pick in a trade, let it have more long-term benefit than Thad Young. As for the 905, this version is even better, and I think Chucky Hepburn and Elijah Martin have a punter's chance of establishing themselves as backups in future seasons.

The 2021-22 Raptors had rookie Scottie, OG, Pascal and Fred VanVleet as a base, but IMO was a lot weaker in talent or potential beyond those four. Khem Birch, Precious Achiuwa and on occasion, Thad Young, were the centres. The base this year is broader, Shead and Mamu would be quality reserves for a lot of teams. Dick, Ogbai, Walter and Murray-Boyles all have upside and can improve to varying degrees, and all are likely to stay in the league for years to come, whether it is with the Raptors or another team. That 2021-22 squad had good internal chemistry from playing for multiple seasons with each other, and I think the current starters are just learning how to do that and will improve as the season continues.

[tsherkin]

So Happy Raptors are good and competitive, currently in 2nd place, everyone's excited, yay!
We seen this happen before where there's a lot of excitement then injuries happen, ppl fall back down to earth, raps go on a slump.
Then TEAM NEGATIVE comes out in full force.

I love the idea of this thread. Celebrate the success, inject a tiny bit of realism, but still mostly focus on enjoying how well we're doing early on.

Awesome!

[anotherhomer]

So Happy Raptors are good and competitive, currently in 2nd place, everyone's excited, yay!
We seen this happen before where there's a lot of excitement then injuries happen, ppl fall back down to earth, raps go on a slump.
Then TEAM NEGATIVE comes out in full force.

I love the idea of this thread. Celebrate the success, inject a tiny bit of realism, but still mostly focus on enjoying how well we're doing early on.

Awesome!

my viewpoint is that the raptors are realistically a 5th to 6th place team at best

Just don't be surprise if next year, raps are a 5th to 6th place team or even play-in team,
Next year, more teams will no longer be tanking
1. Brooklyn Nets - don't control their '27 pick, so will be competing
2. Indiana Pacers - get Hali back
3. Celtics - Tatum will return at full strength
4. Wizards - may turn things around

Right off the bat, that's 4 teams in the Eastern that will get stronger next year.
Can this iteration of Raptors compete against those team.

I think reason for optimism, is because Darko is giving burn to the younger folks, so there's internal growth to keep up.

[tsherkin]

my viewpoint is that the raptors are realistically a 5th to 6th place team at best

Just don't be surprise if next year, raps are a 5th to 6th place team or even play-in team,
Next year, more teams will no longer be tanking
1. Brooklyn Nets - don't control their '27 pick, so will be competing
2. Indiana Pacers - get Hali back
3. Celtics - Tatum will return at full strength
4. Wizards - may turn things around

Right off the bat, that's 4 teams in the Eastern that will get stronger next year.
Can this iteration of Raptors compete against those team.

I think reason for optimism, is because Darko is giving burn to the younger folks, so there's internal growth to keep up.

Yeah, I mean, at least we aren't a 30-win team. We're pretty fun to watch. I don't think anyone sensible is expecting us to exit the conference or anything like that, and next season will be tougher with the other teams improving and such.

But for now? Hell, I'm just in it to enjoy.

[Raps in 4]

This feels like the Blue Jays run. Bad last year but the Raptors have floated up quicker than the Jays. Need to make a Bieber type of trade.

Pre-season, with all the injuries in the East, I thought they would be a 5-6 seed with a chance at #3 behind Cleveland and NY.

Stay healthy and win all the games they should win and secure the playoffs!

The Blue Jays won ~90 games three years in a row prior to a down year last year. They also had a lot more talent than these Raptors lol.

This is going to be a fun season, but this team isn't going to be contending as constructed (we need a trade to bring in an elite scorer).