Beasley wants Bulls to say 'I do'

[Bull Shak]

Many pro Rose people are also pro Tyrus. Just out of curiosity, who do people feel has a higher ceiling: Tyrus Thomas or Michael Beasley? I think it is interesting because they both affect the game in different ways and would be different types of players. The general thought when drafting Rose or Beasley is choosing from two potential franchise players. Tyrus has a ton of upside, but I have never heard of him referred to as a potential franchise player. However, he has completely dominated games at times, and on both ends of the court. So who has a higher ceiling between the two?

Maybe this should be a new thread but I've never started one before!

Beasley by far. Thomas' ceiling is similar to Hinrich's.

[Bull Shak]

first of all, stop spin doctoring. rose is 6'3, not 6'2 which is a big difference for a point guard. someone else above said beasley is 6'9, but he is 6'8. those will be their listed heights in the nba. and doesnt rose have just as much chance at picking up an inch as beasley?

What spin doctoring? He was 6'2.5" at the predraft camp. In my ist of measurements, I adjusted it so that everyone had 1 1/4 inch shoes, which bumped Rose up a quarter inch.

Damn, the Rose fanboys are so insecure and grasp at small strings.

[treis]

Can you guys explain why Rose has a higher ceiling?

It's my personal belief that ceilings are determined by how much a player can realistically improve, and with that improvement how good will he be when he's reached his full potential after improving his weaknesses.

First lets see what makes Rose *special*.

Big for his position
Excellent slashing ability
Pass first instincts
Excellent rebounding guard.
Rare combination of size,blazing speed, and power(I can't name any in the league who has this).
Elite Athlete
Killer instinct in clutch situations

His size/athleticism isn't that rare. Off the top of my head Steve Francis, Baron Davis, and Dwayne Wade all had/have similar athleticism. Even in this draft you have Eric Gordon, who is very close to Rose in the athleticism/size department. Certainly he is an elite athlete, but not off the charts.

Now one of you pro-beasley guys explain to me why Beasley has the higher ceiling.

(1) Size. Tall players have an advantage in basketball. The list of dominating players is littered with people around 6'9", but there are very few in the 6'3" range. It's difficult to dominate basketball from the guard spot, and really only a handful of guys can be said to have done it.

(2) Scoring. Beasley has off the charts scoring instincts. He might be the best scorer coming out of college in 15 years, and if he isn't he is in the top 3. People talk about athleticism like it is the only innate ability, but it's not. There is a natural ability to score, and Beasley has that out the wazoo. He has the instincts and body/athleticism to be the leading scorer in the NBA one day. I don't see that from Rose.

(3) Rebounding. Beasley is a dominating rebounder. He has the instincts and athleticism/body to lead the league in rebound one day. Well, maybe if Howard breaks his legs. Again, rebounding is an innate ability and he has it out the wazoo.

Basically, I see Beasley as a guy that can realistically lead the league in scoring and rebounding. Not necessarily in the same year, but he could pick up each of those titles in different years. That is a rare prospect indeed. Yes, there are some questions about his defense and passing, but I think Beasley has the work ethic and head on him to answer them.

[Bull Shak]

Not Lebron like in size, but i believe in size and speed combination.

ALot of those guys may be his size, but if you're his size he'll more than likely blow right past you. If you're as fast as him, he's more than likely bigger than you.

He has Chauncey like size, with chris paul like speed.

You'll have

PG-Derrick Rose
SG- Dwyane Wade

We'll have

PG-Ben Gordon
SG-Kirk Hinrich

I think our backcourt can match up pretty well with Miami's future backcourt if this is the way things shake out. Gordon has pretty good spped defensively (he is going to be a lot quicker this year, he is working on becoming leaner...think Kobe), and is going to match up strength wise with Rose. (Rose is no Billups like tank).

Rose has pretty good size for a point gaurd, but it isn't overwhelming at all.

[Hold That]

Whats the point of doctoring the heights for everyone if they are being measured in the basketball shoes they will play in on the court?

If the NBA thought it was so critical of having an "un-fair" shoe advantage as you put it, they would have all the players wearing the same type of shoes.

[dougthonus]

Whats the point of doctoring the heights for everyone if they are being measured in the basketball shoes they will play in on the court?

If the NBA thought it was so critical of having an "un-fair" shoe advantage as you put it, they would have all the players wearing the same type of shoes.

Clearly no one would wear bigger shoes for the measurements than what they'd wear normally. Clearly no one ever switches the shoes they were later either.

[Hold That]

Whats the point of doctoring the heights for everyone if they are being measured in the basketball shoes they will play in on the court?

If the NBA thought it was so critical of having an "un-fair" shoe advantage as you put it, they would have all the players wearing the same type of shoes.

Clearly no one would wear bigger shoes for the measurements than what they'd wear normally. Clearly no one ever switches the shoes they were later either.

So clearly Beasly is 6'7.5 then.

I'll just go by the numbers considering Beasley nor Rose's with shoes height were nothing out of the norm or strange compared to their w/o shoes height.

[Clint Eastwood]

Many pro Rose people are also pro Tyrus. Just out of curiosity, who do people feel has a higher ceiling: Tyrus Thomas or Michael Beasley? I think it is interesting because they both affect the game in different ways and would be different types of players. The general thought when drafting Rose or Beasley is choosing from two potential franchise players. Tyrus has a ton of upside, but I have never heard of him referred to as a potential franchise player. However, he has completely dominated games at times, and on both ends of the court. So who has a higher ceiling between the two?

Maybe this should be a new thread but I've never started one before!

Beasley by far. Thomas' ceiling is similar to Hinrich's.

you are amusing. similar ceiling to hinrich? so you think he doesnt really have all-star potential at his age, with his skills, and with the lack of developmental playing time?

and as far as the spin doctoring, if you cant see that 99% of your posts in the last 2 weeks have been spin doctored to convince the world how much you love beasley, then i just cant explain it to you.

rose will be listed as 6'3, which is his rounded height. this is good size for a point guard versus 6'2. and his size should include the fact that he is a tank for a 19 year old point guard.

[coldfish]

Derrick Rose is not big. I thought he was going to be big, but he isn't. 6'2.5" in shoes with 8.2.5" standing reach is about average for a PG. Magic Johnson was a big PG. Livingston was a tall PG.

1" is not a big deal. 3"+ is. Many people are calling Beasley short and Rose big based on less than 1".

Rose isn't the big athletic freak I thought he was going to be.

Jordan Farmar vs Rose
Height .....6'2" ... 6'2.5"
Vert ........42" ...... 40"
No Step....33.5".....34.5"
Lane .......11.07....11.69
3/4 Court 3.17.....3.05
Bench .....11. ..... 10

No one is calling Jordan Farmar a physical freak who will dominate the league and he tested out about the same as Rose.

[Hold That]

Derrick Rose is not big. I thought he was going to be big, but he isn't. 6'2.5" in shoes with 8.2.5" standing reach is about average for a PG. Magic Johnson was a big PG. Livingston was a tall PG.

1" is not a big deal. 3"+ is. Many people are calling Beasley short and Rose big based on less than 1".

Rose isn't the big athletic freak I thought he was going to be.

Jordan Farmar vs Rose
Height .....6'2" ... 6'2.5"
Vert ........42" ...... 40"
No Step....33.5".....34.5"
Lane .......11.07....11.69
3/4 Court 3.17.....3.05
Bench .....11. ..... 10

So Deron Williams is not big too you?

Rose won't be a big athletic freak? Do you see some of his slashing layup drives? What the hell do you call that? The "norm"?

[dougthonus]

So clearly Beasly is 6'7.5 then.

I'll just go by the numbers considering Beasley nor Rose's with shoes height were nothing out of the norm or strange compared to their w/o shoes height.

For one, I don't know why you'd worry about shoes at all. Just use the barefoot measurement it makes more sense.

Secondly, do you care about their heights? Reach is what's most important for a big man and wingspan for a guard.

[HitMan52]

Whats the point of doctoring the heights for everyone if they are being measured in the basketball shoes they will play in on the court?

If the NBA thought it was so critical of having an "un-fair" shoe advantage as you put it, they would have all the players wearing the same type of shoes.

Clearly no one would wear bigger shoes for the measurements than what they'd wear normally. Clearly no one ever switches the shoes they were later either.

So clearly Beasly is 6'7.5 then.

I'll just go by the numbers considering Beasley nor Rose's with shoes height were nothing out of the norm or strange compared to their w/o shoes height.

All I know is that our coach who was listed as 6'4 is as tall as beasley.

[Bull Shak]

Many pro Rose people are also pro Tyrus. Just out of curiosity, who do people feel has a higher ceiling: Tyrus Thomas or Michael Beasley? I think it is interesting because they both affect the game in different ways and would be different types of players. The general thought when drafting Rose or Beasley is choosing from two potential franchise players. Tyrus has a ton of upside, but I have never heard of him referred to as a potential franchise player. However, he has completely dominated games at times, and on both ends of the court. So who has a higher ceiling between the two?

Maybe this should be a new thread but I've never started one before!

Beasley by far. Thomas' ceiling is similar to Hinrich's.

you are amusing. similar ceiling to hinrich? so you think he doesnt really have all-star potential at his age, with his skills, and with the lack of developmental playing time?

and as far as the spin doctoring, if you cant see that 99% of your posts in the last 2 weeks have been spin doctored to convince the world how much you love beasley, then i just cant explain it to you.

rose will be listed as 6'3, which is his rounded height. this is good size for a point guard versus 6'2. and his size should include the fact that he is a tank for a 19 year old point guard.

I think both Hinrich and Thomas have allstar potential, but it is a longshot for both.

[Hold That]

So clearly Beasly is 6'7.5 then.

I'll just go by the numbers considering Beasley nor Rose's with shoes height were nothing out of the norm or strange compared to their w/o shoes height.

For one, I don't know why you'd worry about shoes at all. Just use the barefoot measurement it makes more sense.

Secondly, do you care about their heights? Reach is what's most important for a big man and wingspan for a guard.

When Basketball is played without shoes, this is when the w/o shoes will become relevant.

I don't care about their heights but my response was directed to Bull Shak who obviously does, and not you.

[dougthonus]

When Basketball is played without shoes, this is when the w/o shoes will become relevant.

People change their shoes all the time. Using a barefoot measurement as a baseline still makes WAY more sense than using the shoe measurement if you are going to compare people.

[Hold That]

When Basketball is played without shoes, this is when the w/o shoes will become relevant.

People change their shoes all the time. Using a barefoot measurement as a baseline still makes WAY more sense than using the shoe measurement if you are going to compare people.

I see what your saying, I agree now.

But still I don't see how anyone can say they don't see him being a big athletic freak, when he bounces off defenders, absorbs contact like a sponge or D-Wade like. He's got the weight to and the body mass and plays like a 6'5 guard but since he's not he small.

Like I said, if you play small then your small, if you play big it doesnt matter if you lack the 1.5 inches. Same thing apply's to Beasley.

[coldfish]

So Deron Williams is not big too you?

He is pretty strong. Tall, no. He is less than 6'3"

Would you consider Billups big? He was 6'3" in socks.
Is Hinrich at 6'3.75" big?
Ridnour at 6'2"?
Is Delonte big at 6'2.75"?
Is Devin Harris at 6'3" big?
Jarret Jack at 6'3.5"?
Luther Head at 6'3"?
Foy at 6'3.25"?
Acie Law at 6'3.5"?

All those are combine numbers courtesy of draft express. 6'2 to 6'3 PG's are common. Thats just over the last few years, PG's taken in the first round. There are a few shorter, like Paul, Ford and Nelson and one noticeably bigger in Livingston. However, Rose is right smack in the middle of the bell curve at 6'2.5" in shoes.

[coldfish]

All I know is that our coach who was listed as 6'4 is as tall as beasley.

So the NBA was wrong when they measured Beasley?

[Hold That]

So Deron Williams is not big too you?

He is pretty strong. Tall, no. He is less than 6'3"

Would you consider Billups big? He was 6'3" in socks.
Is Hinrich at 6'3.75" big?
Ridnour at 6'2"?
Is Delonte big at 6'2.75"?
Is Devin Harris at 6'3" big?
Jarret Jack at 6'3.5"?
Luther Head at 6'3"?
Foy at 6'3.25"?
Acie Law at 6'3.5"?

All those are combine numbers courtesy of draft express. 6'2 to 6'3 PG's are common. Thats just over the last few years, PG's taken in the first round. There are a few shorter, like Paul, Ford and Nelson and one noticeably bigger in Livingston. However, Rose is right smack in the middle of the bell curve at 6'2.5" in shoes.

Like I said, if you play small then your small, if you play big it doesnt matter if you lack the 1.5 inches. Same thing apply's to Beasley.

D-Wade is short for a 2G but he plays BIG, same thing goes for Rose at his position. This is why he is percieved and looked at as a big gaurd.

If you play big thats all that matters, the rest of these 1inch .5 inches is irrelevant. These numbers get thrown around tooooooo often. The only thing that matters most is weight if you are short, due to you likely being pushed around. But if you weigh a nice size and have the ability to play big, you will be looked at as a big gaurd period.

[Hold That]

I consider Billups big and damn near every NBA person describes him as a big PG.