TT '09 - DEAD Thread

[mhd]

Here is my trade:

Clippers trade:
3.945 Trade Exception
for:
1) Rasual Butler

NEW LINEUPS:
Clips:
PG: Davis/Telfair
SG: Gordon/Davis
SF: Thorton/Butler
PF: Griffin/Camby
C: Kaman/Jordan

Hornets:
PG: Paul/Collison
SG: Peterson/Brown
SF: Peja/Posey
PF: West/Diogu
C: Okefor/Armstrong

WHY FOR THE CLIPPERS?
1) They need wing depth at the 2-3. Rasual Butler is an excellent 3-point shooter (39% last year) with good size. He is an expiring so it doesn't affect their 2010 plan as well.

WHY FOR THE HORNETS?
1) They are in huge luxary tax danger. While losing Butler stings, they have plenty of wing depth in Peja, Peterson, Posey, and Wright. They can afford to lose Butler given that such a move saves them almost 8 million dollars in luxary tax fees and an addition 4 million in salary payment. So, the hornets save 12 million in the deal!

[Trader_Joe]

What about how realistic a trade is financially?

For example the Denver trade that RTM posted adds about 7 million in payroll to a Denver theam that is already in the tax. (72m in current salary)

I just can't pciture any team (other than NY) spending 14m in salary and tax on Kyle Korver and Elson.

Yeah but bottom line is, is that they were going to pay Kleiza that kind of money anyways, so the money side for the Nuggets shouldn't really be a factor. They were prepared to pay that money, so instead of letting it go to waste, they get two one year contracts, so not a long term commitment, and they get added depth. The Nuggets are in win now mode.

They weren't going to pay Klieza that kind of money... $7m?!
If so, he would be signed, and not looking for offers in Europe.
They probably wanted to pay him 2-3m and he was pissed. If anything they got Afflalo and Sharpe to add depth, and then subsequently Allen.

I'll guarantee you right now that Denver's payroll does not go above $75m. they are $72 right now. you have them approaching $80m.

Win now, or now, the cap is shrinking, the tax level is lowering, teams and owners are losing money, etc. I don't think many of the TPE will be used at all personally, let alone ones like this.

[Trader_Joe]

What about how realistic a trade is financially?

For example the Denver trade that RTM posted adds about 7 million in payroll to a Denver theam that is already in the tax. (72m in current salary)

I just can't pciture any team (other than NY) spending 14m in salary and tax on Kyle Korver and Elson.

Don't accuse me, it's not my post. I've yet to make my trade.

Sorry about that... saw the Detroit jersey and thought it was you.

[Trader_Joe]

The Denver Nuggets had a fantastic season this past year, surpassing expectations to go all the way to the Western Conference Finals. This team has a nice core with Billups and Melo providing the scoring punch, Nene, Birdman, and K-Mart providing the hustle, rebounding, and defense, and Smith and Afflalo providing nice role players. However, they have no backup for Melo. If you honestly think Ronaldo Balkman is a suitable small forward, nonetheless backup for Melo, I think you are clinically insane. With that said, I found a trade that would provide Melo with a suitable backup SF.

Denver Sends: Most of the $2.1 Million TPE
Denver Receives: Jarvis Hayes

New Jersey Sends: Jarvis Hayes
New Jersey Receives: Most of the $2.1 Million TPE

Why does Denver do this? Well, first and foremost, they get a backup who can actually play the three spot when Melo sits on the bench. Hayes has always been known to be a player who doesn't do anything great, but gets the job done for the time he's out there. It gives the Nuggets a nice 7 to 8 man rotation with:

PG: Billups/Lawson
SG: Smith/Afflalo
SF: Melo/Hayes
PF: K-Mart/Andersen
C: Nene/Andersen

And if the Hayes experiment does not work, it's not that big of a deal. He's only a one-year rental, and you go on being the same team that you were last season.

Why does New Jersey do this? The Nets really have no need for Hayes. They are undergoing a youth movement with players such as Harris, Lee, Douglas-Roberts, Lopez, and their first round pick in Terrence Williams (who I think will be a fabulous player in the NBA). According to 82games.com, Hayes is not even listed in the most used lineups per minute last season until the 8th lineup is listed. Simmons and Hassell are used much more at the SF spot than him, and with the acquisition of Courtney Lee, he won't see many more minutes at the SG spot either with the emergence of CDR and T-Will. They also save another $100K in this deal, and wait until the 09-10 offseason to become players in the market, being so far under the cap.

Go on and flame this trade.

This makes no sense.
If NJ didn't want Hayes, they wouldn't have picked up his player option.

Otherwise you're saying they picked up his PO only to give him to Denver for free.

Alot is expected and needed of Hayes both on the court and leadership wise. Kiki and Thorn love him and have specifically said those things about him this off-season.
http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?p=1239

Also, not sure where you got your stats but Hayes played the 5th most minutes on the team last season.. 25mpg. He was arguably the Nets 5th best player behing VC, Devin, Brook and Dooling.
http://www.nba.com/nets/stats/

[CellarDoor]

If you aren't a judge please just post your own trades. You're making it infinitely more difficult for the judges to FIND all the actual trades.

[ecuhus1981]

If you aren't a judge please just post your own trades. You're making it infinitely more difficult for the judges to FIND all the actual trades.

+1

T_J, you're right, but we are not going to discuss the merits of assignment proposals in this thread, ESPECIALLY before the assignment deadline. Thanks.

[Trader_Joe]

Sorry about the clutter... It started as a simple question, and then some responses.

Also, should we explain our trades?

I feel if we do, we risk giving others ideas, but if we don't we may not be able to present our case to the judges.

I would like to not only explain the merits of the trade I present, but also why I chose the team I did, as opposed to the teams I did not, to further justify my trade.

But again, I fear I may be giving others ideas/guidance, and indirectly judging their trades.

[ecuhus1981]

You are free to explain your trade, and it may help a judge see your POV, but it isn't necessary. I usually have a mind for how I will grade a trade, regardless of whether a person illustrates their reasoning. I think the other judges will feel similarly.

[CellarDoor]

For my money I'd be putting explanations, I'd hate to get penalized because a judge forgot some facet of a team that completely changes the landscape of your trade in terms of effectiveness or feasibility.

[ecuhus1981]

^

It won't hurt to support your proposal with reasoning, but I honestly believe that the judging panel knows well enough about each and every team, that nothing any participant could explain would radically alter their grade. Do it for your health if you wish; I read 'em.

[RTM]

UTAH Gets: 7.3 Million TPE

Sorry, I don't wanna mess things up but doesn't UTAH get only a 5.2M TPE (Korver's 09-10 salary) instead of 7.3M? LAC keeps the remaining amount...

Yeah, you're right. My bad. I fixed it.

[ecuhus1981]

^

That reminds me, a note to the participants: DO NOT edit your proposals!

RTM, you aren't in trouble for altering yours, both because we hadn't explicitly made a rule about it, and because it doesn't effectively change your deal. But from here on out, I may need to consult the other judges to see if a disqualification is warranted.

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I'm a judge, but I'm not sure how to go about "judging".

Do I just randomly pick trades? Do I judge all of them? Do I get assigned certain trades to judge?

[legacyinthemakin89c]

They weren't going to pay Klieza that kind of money... $7m?!
If so, he would be signed, and not looking for offers in Europe.
They probably wanted to pay him 2-3m and he was pissed. If anything they got Afflalo and Sharpe to add depth, and then subsequently Allen.

I'll guarantee you right now that Denver's payroll does not go above $75m. they are $72 right now. you have them approaching $80m.

Win now, or now, the cap is shrinking, the tax level is lowering, teams and owners are losing money, etc. I don't think many of the TPE will be used at all personally, let alone ones like this.

No they were going to pay him around the price Korver is. Elson just gave them some added depth, basically what they had Petro for last year, a big body in case Nene or Martin go down. Also, Afflalo is there to replace Jones, and Sharpe is nothing more then a 15th man bench warmer. Denver is a worse team then they were last year as it stands now. Kleiza's three point shooting basically won them 2 games this past postseason and Korver's price tag is worth winning one or two playoff games with his 3 point shooting.

[ecuhus1981]

I'm a judge, but I'm not sure how to go about "judging".

Do I just randomly pick trades? Do I judge all of them? Do I get assigned certain trades to judge?

You are expected to judge them all, but the reason I like having 6 judges is that if one or two of us go AWOL or can't be a part of judging process for a round, we still have plenty enough to make a fair and balanced decision.

[ClipperDomination]

I had no clue Hayes had a team option that was picked up. If I knew that, then I may have gone a different direction. However, I was saying that Hayes was used in lineups that were 8th or lower most lineups used in games, not that his minutes were down. I just don't see the need for him when you guys have a nice young group in his positions with T-Will, CDR, and Lee. It's like the situation the Clipps were in last year. Gordon was poised to break out, but Mobley and Bricky Davis were keeping him from doing that. As soon as Mobley gets traded, Gordon becomes the player we have been accustomed to know. If you got no shot at winning now, why keep the young core from developing? Just my opinion though.

[eitanr]

LA Clippers Trade: 7.5 TPE

Sacramento Kings Trade: Andres Nocioni

Why for LAC:
If you take a look at the current LAC roster you notice one major hole, starting SF. Truth is Al Thornton is progressing nicely, but it seems Dunleavy would rather have him utilized as a 6th man. With that being the case LAC could really use a defensive minded, energy/hustle guy who can slash a bit, score, and hit from long range. Insert Andres.

Noch will be that wing defensive stopper for a unit that already features B-Diddy, Gordon, and Griffin. Andres is also an excellent glue guy for this lineup as he can rebound and play tough D when necessary.

This move also moves the Clipps one step closer to the playoffs, if not securing a spot already.

PF B. Griffin/ C. Smith
SF A. Nocioni/ A. Thornton
C C. Kaman/ M. Camby/ D. Jordan
SG E. Gordon/ R. Davis
PG B. Davis/ S. Telfair

Why for Sacramento:
The Kings really have no use for Andres given their current roster. They have just drafted Omri, Donte Greene will need PT, and Justin Thompson can also play a little 3. The Kings would be better served getting extra cash now and either helping the Maloof brothers out or simply using that extra dough to make better signings for right now.

Glen Davis and Leon Powe come to mind as two players who are currently available would fit appropriate needs with the team (backup PF and backup C....don't say Sean May is enough) (Davis 4 yrs, 21 million.....Powe 3 yrs 7 million) The Kings would be best suited shedding Andres' contract in hopes of attaining players like the ones mentioned above.
* They don't need to necessarily sign the above players (which they can easily) the following rotation is if they do.
PF J. Thompson/ G. Davis/ S. May
SF D. Greene/ O. Cassipi/ J. Thompson
C S. Hawes/ L. Powe
SG K. Martin/ F. Garcia/ R. McCants
PG T. Evans/ S. Rodriguez/ B. Udrih

[ClipperDomination]

I know we shouldn''t post anything but our trades, but I thought a rebuttal was necessary.

[Finger Roll]

Chicago Bulls give: Kirk Hinrich
Chicago Bulls get: Jordan Farmar, Luke Ridnour, Future Second Round Pick

The Bulls shed salary for 2010 while retaining very good PG depth.

Los Angeles Lakers give: Jordan Farmar, D.J. Mbenga, Adam Morrison, 2 Future Second Round Picks
Los Angeles Lakers get: Francisco Elson, Kirk Hinrich

The only real value the Lakers are giving up is a decent PG in Farmar, but Hinrich is clearly an upgrade and is a fantastic fit for their team. To acquire Elson, the Lakers must use a TPE.

Milwaukee Bucks give: Francisco Elson, Luke Ridnour
Milwaukee Bucks get: D.J. Mbenga, Adam Morrison, Future Second Round Pick

The Bucks swap expirings for expirings and a pick. But Mbenga and Morrison make nearly 2 million less than Elson and Ridnour this season. This also gives Jennings more playing time.

[SW567]

Alright, here's my trade...

Sacramento gets: $6 million TPE
Orlando gets: Beno Udrih

Why Sacramento does it: They get rid of a player they don't really need, and save a bunch of money in the process.

Why Orlando does it: They need a backup PG to really balance out their squad nicely, and Udrih is better than anything they can get on the free agent market right now (plus he does technically have championship experience). Orlando already has the following players locked up long term:

Howard/Gortat
Lewis/Bass
Carter
Pietrus
Nelson

So adding Udrih and his horrible contract won't really have any effect on their salary cap situation, since they'll be so far over the cap for the foreseeable future anyway. Really, the perfect destination for Udrih is a team:

- looking to win now
- in need of a backup PG
- already has lots of money tied up long-term

Orlando fits that bill perfectly.