Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[RedBulls23]

Joakim Noah cussed out Ron Adams wasn't it, his first year and the team (players) gave him a 1 game suspension. 8 years later Joakim Noah is still here and the 'heart of the team'. Considering Butler didn't receive any punishment for any of these trifles KC scatter shot out, kind of hard to suddenly buy that Jimmy is like the Worst Person In The World.

And Joakim wasn't defended for his actions like Butler is being defended by certain people here.

[Payt10]

I'm not sure I like that Jimmy said this to the media, but I do like at least knowing he feels how this team is playing hasn't been good enough. I don't want the best player on my team just happy and accepting of being a middle of the pack playoff team with no higher prospects, and no one else on the team - coaches or players - desiring of anything more.

I doubt anyone on the team is happy to be a middle of the pack team, but one of them are going to throw teammates and coaches under the bus to show it.

That's the issue. To be honest, he's acting a bit like Brandon Marshall. Brandon also cared quite a bit, but he had multiple episodes where he exploded in the locker room to coaches and teammates. He also threw Jay under the bus late last year to the media.

Going on tirades, cursing out coaches, calling names to the media. That's not leadership.

I don't think Jimmy is the cancer Brandon was though and I think this can be corrected. If he expects this type of leadership though will get guys to follow him, he's sorely mistaken.



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That is actually a really good comparison. Damn. Never crossed my mind until you just said it, but wow, they do seem similar.

[YettiBull]

Only thing of value KC said was they had a good meeting. Other than that, agenda piece IMO.

Again, what agenda does the FO have against a player they just gave a max contract to?

Odd timing for some of the sources close to the situation...

If players aren't giving max effort, I would be frustrated too. Do you think players like MJ, Kobe, Westbrook, James, etc would let guys not give max effort and let coach sit on their hands? Not saying its right, but LBJ called out their coach last year, Wade was seen mid-game yelling at Spols. etc. The issue here is how it was handle and the internal cooking of the team stinks.

[TheAdmiral]

....where the FO thinks about trying to add to help them.

Wouldn't that scenario likely result in the front office to (once again) stand pat in mid-season?

[Stratmaster]

Who are the sources of those quotes? Did Michael say those things publicly to the media, or were they reported well after he was done playing in some tell-all book? Because I never recall reading any of them?

Most have been kicking around for a long time. Some are from like The Jordan Rules and such. Some are sourced here.

Is every single one legit, I don't really know, but I bet most are knowing Michael.

That was Jordan, before he was winning titles he was the best player in the league. Butler isn't even top 10 in this league and on the roster hes got a former MVP, a 4th placer in MVP and a guy with two rings he has to lead

Michael Jordan never said that kind of crap publicly in the media. All of that came out in the tell-all books after he retired. Huge difference between trash talking in practice and throwing teammates under the bus in public interviews while they are still on the team. Jordan did mildly call out the team a couple times in interviews...but nothing like those quotes.

Totally different situations.

[Rerisen]

I'm not questioning whether they were said or not. But they were said privately, usually to the player's face. Jordan was known for his trash talking and acting like an ass. But he didn't say those things to ESPN and the Chicago media publicly after a game.

Apples and Kumquats.

I don't care who he said them to, some are really bad regardless.

Like he is planning on leaving the team if they don't shape up and the FO always has an excuse for not making a move.

These are comments that cut at the organization anywhere they can be quoted.

[Rerisen]

Joakim Noah cussed out Ron Adams wasn't it, his first year and the team (players) gave him a 1 game suspension. 8 years later Joakim Noah is still here and the 'heart of the team'. Considering Butler didn't receive any punishment for any of these trifles KC scatter shot out, kind of hard to suddenly buy that Jimmy is like the Worst Person In The World.

And Joakim wasn't defended for his actions like Butler is being defended by certain people here.

Don't see very many defending him, just seeing a lot say that it sucks that what he said looks to be true.

[DarthDiggler69]

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

He said Fred Hoiberg is too laid-back and isn't coaching hard enough? really?

He said the Bulls were too soft. to paraphrase

Bulls were soft, that means the players were not physical, Thats on the players. Butler is talking about running the plays and Fred enforcing it.

Anyway weird of Pau saying they were soft he is the softest, if you breath on him he yells like he saw a ghost

[Stratmaster]

I'm not questioning whether they were said or not. But they were said privately, usually to the player's face. Jordan was known for his trash talking and acting like an ass. But he didn't say those things to ESPN and the Chicago media publicly after a game.

Apples and Kumquats.

I don't care who he said them to, some are really bad regardless.

Like he is planning on leaving the team if they don't shape up and the FO always has an excuse for not making a move.

These are comments that cut at the organization anywhere they can be quoted.

You aren't seriously going to sit here and say that calling your new head coach out in the media is the same as complaining about the FO privately are you? You ever complain about your boss? You ever complain about your boss in front of them to the whole office? Are you claiming you don't get the difference?

None of that ish came out until after MJ retired. Biutler made sure it came out while he was still playing with his teammates.

[Rerisen]

Michael Jordan never said that kind of crap publicly in the media. All of that came out in the tell-all books after he retired. Huge difference between trash talking in practice and throwing teammates under the bus in public interviews while they are still on the team. Jordan did mildly call out the team a couple times in interviews...but nothing like those quotes.

Totally different situations.

It wasn't meant to be a justification of Jimmy at all.

The point was explaining to the poster that acted like Rose didn't get any breaks relative to Butler, that the more power a player has and can back up with his play, the more they get away with stuff.

Obviously Jimmy has the most on our team now, but not as much as Kobe or LeBron.

But Jimmy doesn't have that pull yet, which is probably why virtually everyone saying Jimmy was in the wrong to bring this out in public.

[kyrv]

I am wondering if Jimmy is alone on this, part of his frustration. Nobody has backed him up, not even pc pr wise, and Noah rejected his thoughts. I doubt Pau Rose Noah Taj Kirk are on board.

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

[fleet]

He said Fred Hoiberg is too laid-back and isn't coaching hard enough? really?

He said the Bulls were too soft. to paraphrase

Bulls were soft, that means the players were soft. Thats on the players. Butler is talking about running the plays and Fred enforcing it

I wasn't intimating that Pau criticized Hoiberg at all. The question was asked how on board Pau and the others were to this line of thinking that the Bulls were (not playing hard and not doing game plan emphasis). I suggested Pau was saying much the same, yes, about the players. And he said in to the press. Said the team was soft. Yelling at Tony Snell for missing block outs. They don't hit hard enough, etc.

If I took the question wrong as it was all about Hoiberg's coaching, then my bad

[Stratmaster]

Michael Jordan never said that kind of crap publicly in the media. All of that came out in the tell-all books after he retired. Huge difference between trash talking in practice and throwing teammates under the bus in public interviews while they are still on the team. Jordan did mildly call out the team a couple times in interviews...but nothing like those quotes.

Totally different situations.

It wasn't meant to be a justification of Jimmy at all.

The point was explaining to the poster that acted like Rose didn't get any breaks relative to Butler, that the more power a player has and can back up with his play, the more they get away with stuff.

Obviously Jimmy has the most on our team now, but not as much as Kobe or LeBron, who called out and pressured their own teams.

Which is probably why virtually everyone saying Jimmy was in the wrong to bring this out in public.

LeBron and Kobe got blasted on this board for it also. It isn't right no matter who did it.

[BoozerRoNo]

Joakim Noah cussed out Ron Adams wasn't it, his first year and the team (players) gave him a 1 game suspension. 8 years later Joakim Noah is still here and the 'heart of the team'. Considering Butler didn't receive any punishment for any of these trifles KC scatter shot out, kind of hard to suddenly buy that Jimmy is like the Worst Person In The World.

And Joakim wasn't defended for his actions like Butler is being defended by certain people here.

No one is more defended than Derrick Rose. Going Clubbing when his team loses in playoffs, its about life after basketball, accused of rape, its about 2017 free agency, its not my job to recruit, only plays hard on national tv now, quitting in the playoffs.

[Rerisen]

LeBron and Kobe got blasted on this board for it also. It isn't right no matter who did it.

Kobe would probably disagree if it was right.

He stood in a parking lot and said get his Bulls jersey ready and demanded a teammate be traded.

His reward: Pau Gasol and titles.

Jimmy will have no such reward. Well he already has Pau, if a much worse version.

[musiqsoulchild]

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

They took exception to Thibs saying such things too.

But either they were wrong, or one of the reasons people wanted Thibs gone (and maybe a reason he was gone) was not true.

That being that he lost the team or they quit effort wise on him. Can't both be true. And if it was true then, its probably still true now.

Why can't both be true?

It happens like ALL the time in sports. To the best of them even.

See George Karl for example.

[Rerisen]

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

He named himself and Fred.

Other than that, we don't know. Seemed a generic team wide aspersion.

The guys that really try like Noah and Taj, can see why they would take offense.

[Ralphb07]

The bigger issue for me is not that Jimmy said something about the coach or the FO.

It's his direct, repeated accusations about his teammates not playing hard.

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

I'm with you on this. People are taking what he said as an attack to Fred but in reality he used Fred to attack his teammates.

[Rerisen]

Why can't both be true?

It happens like ALL the time in sports. To the best of them even.

See George Karl for example.

Think there was a mix up there somewhere.

What I'm saying can't be both true is that Jimmy is lying but people were right about the team quitting on Thibs.

I mean based on eye test, effort is the same. If they quit last year, don't think they have stopped quitting.

[Stratmaster]

I am wondering if Jimmy is alone on this, part of his frustration. Nobody has backed him up, not even pc pr wise, and Noah rejected his thoughts. I doubt Pau Rose Noah Taj Kirk are on board.

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

So if it isn't Rose, and it isn't Pau...and it certainly isn't Noah...

I have said since the comments started I believe it is Niko. A lot of American players have a bit of a thing about European players being soft. Hard to believe that is who Pau meant though. Niko...Snell... who else could it be? And if Butler is blowing this all up over Tony Snell..well, I take back what I said about him not being stupid.

But obviously, I don't know for sure; because all Jimmy does it make inflammatory vague, general comments to the press.