OT- The Last Dance documentary

[prolific passer]

Maybe. He could have learned from Jordan in his first 3 years and possibly became better than what he was. Still passed up on a 20+ppg scorer none the less. Like you said. So did everybody else before pick 21 did also.

My point was that Krause's rebuild was doomed because there were no foundational pieces available in any of those drafts to him except maybe Pau Gasol and he was more of a #2. If you start right before 96 or 03 you run into 2 of the greatest drafts ever and can get great talent. People forget, he had 2 lotto picks in each draft. I think you need a little luck to rebuild around a good draft, he happened to catch the worst streak.

Finley would have been an amazing pick but there are things I don't know: how many years was the rookie contract by that time? We talk about rebuild... would he stayed on the Bulls or moved to other teams once that was up?

Looking back... it would have made us even better... I guess.



By the way, watched/listened to the following link... Didn't know about illegal offense was a thing

Watch on YouTube

For Finley to stay. It would depend on how the bulls are after 98. Him and Kukoc would have been a competent duo to build around imo.

[dougthonus]

For Finley to stay. It would depend on how the bulls are after 98. Him and Kukoc would have been a competent duo to build around imo.

If you had Finley, and knew what you had, then you might have considered keeping Pippen too.

You would have had Harper, Finley, Pippen, Kukoc, Wennington, Randy Brown, and about 10 million in cap room to fill out the roster based on Pippen/Finley's signed deals and the other guys already being under contract.

Vlade Divac would have been your best FA target for that money, if you sign him to go with that group and then find somewhat competent backup players you would have had a heck of a squad there still.

Probably not title worthy, but certainly 50+ wins. That said, Krause felt he could burn it to the ground and rebuild a true contender so would have never gone for that type of plan. The irony of that is that Krause, in his entire history, drafted 1 star player (Pippen) and really had logical reason to think he could pull off what he tried based on his history.

[TheGOATRises007]

The Lebron fans on the GB are really losing their minds since the documentary aired.

[prolific passer]

For Finley to stay. It would depend on how the bulls are after 98. Him and Kukoc would have been a competent duo to build around imo.

If you had Finley, and knew what you had, then you might have considered keeping Pippen too.

You would have had Harper, Finley, Pippen, Kukoc, Wennington, Randy Brown, and about 10 million in cap room to fill out the roster based on Pippen/Finley's signed deals and the other guys already being under contract.

Vlade Divac would have been your best FA target for that money, if you sign him to go with that group and then find somewhat competent backup players you would have had a heck of a squad there still.

Probably not title worthy, but certainly 50+ wins. That said, Krause felt he could burn it to the ground and rebuild a true contender so would have never gone for that type of plan. The irony of that is that Krause, in his entire history, drafted 1 star player (Pippen) and really had logical reason to think he could pull off what he tried based on his history.

Idk if Pippen would have stayed. I wonder if the bulls drafted Brown then would he have stayed and replaced Rodman. He was drafted in 92 but didn't play till the 93-94 season. Stephen Jackson was drafted in 97 but didn't play till the 00-01 season.

[Licensed to Il]

Krause was good in some areas of the job, and awful in others. No way he would have been successful post Jordan.. it was the “world wide wes” era of the nba and Krause didn’t have the connections or the charisma to sign max free agents.

[Michael Jackson]

Most of the league passed on Finley, he was the 21st pick and not someone you build a franchise around.

Maybe. He could have learned from Jordan in his first 3 years and possibly became better than what he was. Still passed up on a 20+ppg scorer none the less. Like you said. So did everybody else before pick 21 did also.

My point was that Krause's rebuild was doomed because there were no foundational pieces available in any of those drafts to him except maybe Pau Gasol and he was more of a #2. If you start right before 96 or 03 you run into 2 of the greatest drafts ever and can get great talent. People forget, he had 2 lotto picks in each draft. I think you need a little luck to rebuild around a good draft, he happened to catch the worst streak.

His rebuild was doomed because he wasn’t really planning on building in the draft. He was so sure he was going to get at least one of TMac, Hill or Duncan. He was clueless about how he was perceived and thought he really would get those guys. Absolutely misjudged the market because of his hubris. Hell TMac only showed up out of respect because Krause always liked him. Now granted if he pulled that off, well he goes down in history as a visionary instead of how he did go down. His plan was solid on paper but had less than a 1% chance of working in the real world, where he alienated all the top personalities on the greatest team ever. I bet if he could have gotten over his hubris he would have kept it together but that ego had some might big blinders.

[dice]

Krause was good in some areas of the job, and awful in others. No way he would have been successful post Jordan.. it was the “world wide wes” era of the nba and Krause didn’t have the connections or the charisma to sign max free agents.

GMs rarely sign max FAs through connections or charisma

[prolific passer]

Krause thinking big time free agents were going to come there after how he treated 2 great players and a great coach just a few years earlier was another dumb move on his part.

[HomoSapien]

Came across this clip from 1999, before Jordan had announced his retirement. Krause apparently held a press conference where he laid out three plans. They were:

1.) Jordan plays, they bring back the whole team.
2.) Jordan retires, they bring back the rest of the team and add quality free-agents.
3.) They rebuild completely.

Would have been interesting to see Pippen back in 99 with the addition of someone like Antonio McDyess (the crew seemed most interested in Jayson Williams who also would have been a big get and had been interested in joining the Bulls before). I really tend to believe that if most of the team was there in 99 that Jordan probably would have rejoined them in 2000.

Watch on YouTube

[HomoSapien]

For a coach of his stature, Jackson's circle has always seemed relatively small. Only a few of his former players -- Steve Kerr and Luke Walton -- are current head coaches in the NBA. Most of his coaching contemporaries were too consumed with trying to beat the man who won 11 titles in his 20 years on the bench, to befriend him. Front-office executives were mostly annoyed he thought he would succeed in that type of role, without doing it the way they did.

So when Jackson retired from coaching in 2011, and stepped down after an unsuccessful run as president of the New York Knicks in 2017, there wasn't a loud chorus singing his praises. If anything, there was a loud chorus airing out three decades of gripes and jealousies.

Those who found him aloof or arrogant while he was on top of the NBA world almost seemed to delight in seeing his triangle offense belittled by analytics wonks and pace-and-space devotees.

He has made few public appearances and given even fewer interviews since he retired to his home in Montana. Even his previously engaging Twitter feed has gone quiet -- last posting an article about meditation in June 2018.

And he has politely declined interview requests regarding "The Last Dance," as he already said quite a bit in a four-hour interview for the project.

But that's only the public side of things. Because as Rivers and a select group of current NBA coaches have found out, Jackson still has a lot to say about basketball -- if the right person is asking the question.

"The man won 11 championships. Do I have that correct?" Rivers said. "Anybody that wins 11 championships should be celebrated every day. But I think because Phil was a loner in a lot of ways, a lot of people felt like he didn't spend time with other coaches and all that stuff.

"If you asked him, he would, though."

Rivers knew Jackson from coaching against him and through Tyronn Lue, who'd played for Jackson. Philadelphia 76ers coach Brett Brown was introduced via Luc Longley and Coby Karl, both of whom played for Jackson. Chicago Bulls coach Jim Boylen asked his owner, Jerry Reinsdorf, and Jackson's former player John Paxson for an introduction. Toronto Raptors head coach Nick Nurse asked Alex McKechnie, his vice president of player health and performance, who'd worked with Jackson in Los Angeles. Lakers coach Frank Vogel got to know him through former Jackson assistant Brian Shaw. Dallas Mavericks head coach Rick Carlisle just knows everyone as president of the NBA Coaches Association.

What they all have in common is a desire to learn from the man they consider one of the greatest coaches of all time.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29101166/how-phil-jackson-coaching-legacy-influencing-nba

It would probably never happen, but I would love to bring Phil onboard in a Tex Winter role to mentor a young coach. It seems like his physical health would prevent him from traveling to away games, but I'm guessing the desire to coach is still there.

[dice]

Krause thinking big time free agents were going to come there after how he treated 2 great players and a great coach just a few years earlier was another dumb move on his part.

he almost got mcgrady, who was the only major FA he EVER went after as far as i can recall

[dice]

apparently chuck daly pushed for isiah to be on the dream team but got pushback across the board, so went w/ stockton

also, and the espn promos suggest it to some degree, but episodes 5 and 6 will center around the perks and pitfalls of fame/marketing a squeaky clean image

[troza]

The Lebron fans on the GB are really losing their minds since the documentary aired.

I usually don't look up to those threads but went to read a few posts after reading your comment.

It is always the same guy... working like saying a lie too many times makes it true.


The one that stands out is something I keep reading here by lots of users... on a thread trying to discuss that the Bulls would have won titles with Butler instead of Jordan and the same guy keeps bringing the 93/94 Bulls' record without Jordan... Oh my...

The team was not the same minus Jordan. The additions of Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, Pete Meyers, Wennigton are all forgotten, as well as the difference a rusty Jordan made on the following season.

Butler is a very good player... but even a 5x all star and whatever he made (as often said by the same user) is not comparable to what Jordan did...

[dougthonus]

Idk if Pippen would have stayed. I wonder if the bulls drafted Brown then would he have stayed and replaced Rodman. He was drafted in 92 but didn't play till the 93-94 season. Stephen Jackson was drafted in 97 but didn't play till the 00-01 season.

Pippen wanted to be paid, the Rockets could only give him like half what they did if not for the S&T, pretty good odds he would have stayed for the extra money, given the amount extra the Bulls got him in that trade was probably on par with his previous career earnings to date.

[Michael Jackson]

Krause thinking big time free agents were going to come there after how he treated 2 great players and a great coach just a few years earlier was another dumb move on his part.

he almost got mcgrady, who was the only major FA he EVER went after as far as i can recall

No he absolutely went after Hill and Duncan too. Duncan let it be known early on he wasn’t leaving the Spurs. Hill refused to interview with the Bulls. McGrady also didn’t almost sign here, I would say Lebron was closer to signing here than TMac, McGrady did the interview out of a courtesy to Krause.

[HomoSapien]

Watch on YouTube

[Salo23]

Krause thinking big time free agents were going to come there after how he treated 2 great players and a great coach just a few years earlier was another dumb move on his part.

he almost got mcgrady, who was the only major FA he EVER went after as far as i can recall

Krause offered Eddie Jones the max and was burned by him too. There was an article how Eddie Jones was so sad and depressed that he almost signed with Chicago because they were so terrible at the time.

I also want to say he got burned by Tim Thomas as well but I’m not 100% sure on that one, but Eddie Jones was close to happening before he backed out at the last second. We of course ended up with Brad Miller and Ron Mercer when all the “full boat” free agents turned us down.

[KeithBoothfan]

Krause thinking big time free agents were going to come there after how he treated 2 great players and a great coach just a few years earlier was another dumb move on his part.

he almost got mcgrady, who was the only major FA he EVER went after as far as i can recall

Krause offered Eddie Jones the max and was burned by him too. There was an article how Eddie Jones was so sad and depressed that he almost signed with Chicago because they were so terrible at the time.

I also want to say he got burned by Tim Thomas as well but I’m not 100% sure on that one, but Eddie Jones was close to happening before he backed out at the last second. We of course ended up with Brad Miller and Ron Mercer when all the “full boat” free agents turned us down.

Yep, definitely burned by Tim Thomas. He went back to Milwaukee for less money despite his agent (Arn Tellem if I remember right) almost begging him to go to Chicago, thinking he'd have the chance to become a #1 guy and more endorsements, etc. Obviously Tim Thomas would have been a complete disaster as a maxed-out #1 option, but yep, he blew us off.

Duncan didn't say he wouldn't leave the Spurs - in fact he came pretty close to going to Orlando with Grant Hill, and Popovich had to talk him into coming back. But he did make it known ahead of time that he was not going to consider Chicago. And I distinctly remember an article about Eddie Jones in which he told his mother to pray for him that an option other than the Bulls would present itself.

Man, that was a painful summer.

[wickywack]

Krause thinking big time free agents were going to come there after how he treated 2 great players and a great coach just a few years earlier was another dumb move on his part.

he almost got mcgrady, who was the only major FA he EVER went after as far as i can recall

Krause offered Eddie Jones the max and was burned by him too. There was an article how Eddie Jones was so sad and depressed that he almost signed with Chicago because they were so terrible at the time.

I also want to say he got burned by Tim Thomas as well but I’m not 100% sure on that one, but Eddie Jones was close to happening before he backed out at the last second. We of course ended up with Brad Miller and Ron Mercer when all the “full boat” free agents turned us down.

That summer was a comedy of errors: Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, Tim Thomas, TMac, Eddie Jones, Austin Croshere, Rashard Lewis, Glen Rice.

https://nypost.com/2000/10/06/bulls-eye-on-krause-chicago-vp-may-take-fall-for-not-luring-free-agents/

The Ron Mercer overpay felt like a desperation move to save some face.

[weneeda2guard]

Maybe. He could have learned from Jordan in his first 3 years and possibly became better than what he was. Still passed up on a 20+ppg scorer none the less. Like you said. So did everybody else before pick 21 did also.

My point was that Krause's rebuild was doomed because there were no foundational pieces available in any of those drafts to him except maybe Pau Gasol and he was more of a #2. If you start right before 96 or 03 you run into 2 of the greatest drafts ever and can get great talent. People forget, he had 2 lotto picks in each draft. I think you need a little luck to rebuild around a good draft, he happened to catch the worst streak.

His rebuild was doomed because he wasn’t really planning on building in the draft. He was so sure he was going to get at least one of TMac, Hill or Duncan. He was clueless about how he was perceived and thought he really would get those guys. Absolutely misjudged the market because of his hubris. Hell TMac only showed up out of respect because Krause always liked him. Now granted if he pulled that off, well he goes down in history as a visionary instead of how he did go down. His plan was solid on paper but had less than a 1% chance of working in the real world, where he alienated all the top personalities on the greatest team ever. I bet if he could have gotten over his hubris he would have kept it together but that ego had some might big blinders.

I read somewhere that tmac was actually close to signing with the bulls. He appreciated the scouting krause was doing on him since he came in the league and krause been wooing him since he was a rookie to the point krause was willing to trade pippen for him

From the grapevine though, supposedly scottie pippen and Phil Jackson called tmac to tell tmac about the front office of the bulls. They strongly advised against him coming here. Add in what Orlando did getting grant Hill to sign there and tmac made what he felt was the better choice.