2023-24 Regular Season

[jasonxxx102]

I think this is first game where I could see the flashes of his C&S game. I still have issues, but its possible.

In his first three games, he's at 38.5% 3P% on 11.6 attempts per 36 minutes.

Oh yea he’s taken a bunch of bad shots but hey, that’s why he’s out there.

If you get a serviceable defender who can come in and just launch 5+ 3s at better than 36-37%? Golden

All he has to do is shoot better than Cedi did

If all you want him to be is a slightly better shooting version of Cedi, yes. But if you want him to develop into more, leave him on the Charge where can add some muscle mass and get coached up. We're not rebuilding anymore, we shouldn't be force feeding teenagers minutes, and we just spent a lot of money on vets who can catch and shoot. When he's too good for the G League and weighs more than 200lbs, bring him up.

If he was a lottery pick yea, I'd expect better than Cedi 2.0. Given that we got him for nothing, anything in the realm of role player is a big win

[jasonxxx102]

I still can't figure out peoples infatuation with Wade. He's barely average and people on this board talk about him like he's an elite role player.

He's inefficient offensively, massively overrated as a shooter, sub 70% FT, a poor rebounder...

If I were JB, he's not even in the rotation at all this season if the team is healthy. No chance you're playing him over Niang or Strus

[ijspeelman]

I still can't figure out peoples infatuation with Wade. He's barely average and people on this board talk about him like he's an elite role player.

He's inefficient offensively, massively overrated as a shooter, sub 70% FT, a poor rebounder...

If I were JB, he's not even in the rotation at all this season if the team is healthy. No chance you're playing him over Niang or Strus

His TS% all time is above league average (this last season started well and fell off a cliff after the injury), he's a pretty average shooter admittedly which looked really nice next to our big 4 last year, his defense is solid and versatile, and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. The year before that? The highest DRB%.

Do I think he's an elite role player? No.

Do I think there are role players better on our team now? Yes.

Does he still have a place on the team? Probably.

[jasonxxx102]

I still can't figure out peoples infatuation with Wade. He's barely average and people on this board talk about him like he's an elite role player.

He's inefficient offensively, massively overrated as a shooter, sub 70% FT, a poor rebounder...

If I were JB, he's not even in the rotation at all this season if the team is healthy. No chance you're playing him over Niang or Strus

His TS% all time is above league average (this last season started well and fell off a cliff after the injury), he's a pretty average shooter admittedly which looked really nice next to our big 4 last year, his defense is solid and versatile, and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. The year before that? The highest DRB%.

Do I think he's an elite role player? No.

Do I think there are role players better on our team now? Yes.

Does he still have a place on the team? Probably.

His TS% all time is above league average - only if you include PG/SG which isn't really relevant. If you look at F/C he's below league average. If you look at Niang, for example, he blows him out of the water from a TS% perspective.

His pre-injury numbers were low volume and heavily skewed by 2 games (4-7 / 6-8). At no point in his career has he shown to be a consistent > 36% 3pt shooter.

and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. - I'm speaking specifically from watching him play. DRB% in small sample really doesn't prove anything, it can be influenced by any number of things. His TRB% was 9.9 which is comically low for a forward. Him being the 3rd highest Cav in DRB% (if you take out Love) just speaks to how poorly the Cavs rebounded the ball, not Wade being good or not. Also him leading the team in DRB% the year before is not true.

He's now the 4th best role playing forward on the team, if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position.

[jbk1234]

Oh yea he’s taken a bunch of bad shots but hey, that’s why he’s out there.

If you get a serviceable defender who can come in and just launch 5+ 3s at better than 36-37%? Golden

All he has to do is shoot better than Cedi did

If all you want him to be is a slightly better shooting version of Cedi, yes. But if you want him to develop into more, leave him on the Charge where can add some muscle mass and get coached up. We're not rebuilding anymore, we shouldn't be force feeding teenagers minutes, and we just spent a lot of money on vets who can catch and shoot. When he's too good for the G League and weighs more than 200lbs, bring him up.

If he was a lottery pick yea, I'd expect better than Cedi 2.0. Given that we got him for nothing, anything in the realm of role player is a big win

We're not rebuilding anymore though. He needs minutes to develop into the best player he can be and he's not getting gifted them on the Cavs roster. We just paid a lot of money to add two seasoned shooters to the roster.

Tbc, this is a good thing. When the Spurs built that dynasty, minutes for young players were earned. First overseas or the G League, then practice, and only later on the court in NBA games. They weren't entirely dependent on free agency to backfill their roster which helped them pay and retain their best players.

Also, signing a guy to a two-way, or having them develop overseas, extends the timeline for their rookie deals. That's going to be very, very important as the Cavs won't have control over their draft from 2025-29 and Mobley is going to come off his rookie deal. Having a cost-controlled pipeline of developed young guys who can join the roster will help mitigate that drought.

The only reason to convert a two-way contract to a full league minimum deal is if Porter or Nance really start to put it together on the Charge and become a flight risk. In that event, it should be I. Mobley because that's where that train is headed anyway regardless of whether he's the most deserving.

[ijspeelman]

I still can't figure out peoples infatuation with Wade. He's barely average and people on this board talk about him like he's an elite role player.

He's inefficient offensively, massively overrated as a shooter, sub 70% FT, a poor rebounder...

If I were JB, he's not even in the rotation at all this season if the team is healthy. No chance you're playing him over Niang or Strus

His TS% all time is above league average (this last season started well and fell off a cliff after the injury), he's a pretty average shooter admittedly which looked really nice next to our big 4 last year, his defense is solid and versatile, and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. The year before that? The highest DRB%.

Do I think he's an elite role player? No.

Do I think there are role players better on our team now? Yes.

Does he still have a place on the team? Probably.

His TS% all time is above league average - only if you include PG/SG which isn't really relevant. If you look at F/C he's below league average. If you look at Niang, for example, he blows him out of the water from a TS% perspective.

His pre-injury numbers were low volume and heavily skewed by 2 games (4-7 / 6-8). At no point in his career has he shown to be a consistent > 36% 3pt shooter.

and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. - I'm speaking specifically from watching him play. DRB% in small sample really doesn't prove anything, it can be influenced by any number of things. His TRB% was 9.9 which is comically low for a forward. Him being the 3rd highest Cav in DRB% (if you take out Love) just speaks to how poorly the Cavs rebounded the ball, not Wade being good or not. Also him leading the team in DRB% the year before is not true.

He's now the 4th best role playing forward on the team, if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position.

I find rebounding rates for individual players to be misleading since its a team effort to get a rebound. I understand that its hard to rely on on/off team rebounding stats to evaluate players as well. We can agree to disagree on his rebounding.

However, I think saying that "if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position" is incorrect. Even if Wade was the early version of himself throughout the year and into the playoffs, we'd still sign similar guys. Before this year we knew we needed more wing depth so we still would have grabbed at least two wings imo even if it knocked Wade down a peg.

Also, this is nitpicky, but his career 3P% is technically above 36% For a shooter who by all accounts is average in terms of efficiency and volume, his TS% is right where it should be. He doesn't take more shots than he should so it doesn't falter. He's not a big man in terms of offense. He's not rim running or a lob threat, but someone you don't really want to leave open for a three.

[ijspeelman]

I know a lot of players from a lot of teams do it, but I love the guys getting together and watching the Cavs Summer League squad.

[jbk1234]

His TS% all time is above league average (this last season started well and fell off a cliff after the injury), he's a pretty average shooter admittedly which looked really nice next to our big 4 last year, his defense is solid and versatile, and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. The year before that? The highest DRB%.

Do I think he's an elite role player? No.

Do I think there are role players better on our team now? Yes.

Does he still have a place on the team? Probably.

His TS% all time is above league average - only if you include PG/SG which isn't really relevant. If you look at F/C he's below league average. If you look at Niang, for example, he blows him out of the water from a TS% perspective.

His pre-injury numbers were low volume and heavily skewed by 2 games (4-7 / 6-8). At no point in his career has he shown to be a consistent > 36% 3pt shooter.

and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. - I'm speaking specifically from watching him play. DRB% in small sample really doesn't prove anything, it can be influenced by any number of things. His TRB% was 9.9 which is comically low for a forward. Him being the 3rd highest Cav in DRB% (if you take out Love) just speaks to how poorly the Cavs rebounded the ball, not Wade being good or not. Also him leading the team in DRB% the year before is not true.

He's now the 4th best role playing forward on the team, if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position.

I find rebounding rates for individual players to be misleading since its a team effort to get a rebound.

In theory anyway. The Cavs developed some bad habits last season. None being more obvious in the playoffs than placing the responsibility for rebounding on whichever big men were on the floor. Mitchell occasionally gets in there and mixes it up, but none of our other guards or wings made much of an effort to rebound.

[JujitsuFlip]

I still can't figure out peoples infatuation with Wade. He's barely average and people on this board talk about him like he's an elite role player.

He's inefficient offensively, massively overrated as a shooter, sub 70% FT, a poor rebounder...

If I were JB, he's not even in the rotation at all this season if the team is healthy. No chance you're playing him over Niang or Strus

He has a role as the 5th forward on the team, which some nights he may not see the floor.

But like you, me, and a couple others mentioned. They're not paying Niang all that money to play Wade in front of him.

[jasonxxx102]

If all you want him to be is a slightly better shooting version of Cedi, yes. But if you want him to develop into more, leave him on the Charge where can add some muscle mass and get coached up. We're not rebuilding anymore, we shouldn't be force feeding teenagers minutes, and we just spent a lot of money on vets who can catch and shoot. When he's too good for the G League and weighs more than 200lbs, bring him up.

If he was a lottery pick yea, I'd expect better than Cedi 2.0. Given that we got him for nothing, anything in the realm of role player is a big win

We're not rebuilding anymore though. He needs minutes to develop into the best player he can be and he's not getting gifted them on the Cavs roster. We just paid a lot of money to add two seasoned shooters to the roster.

Tbc, this is a good thing. When the Spurs built that dynasty, minutes for young players were earned. First overseas or the G League, then practice, and only later on the court in NBA games. They weren't entirely dependent on free agency to backfill their roster which helped them pay and retain their best players.

Also, signing a guy to a two-way, or having them develop overseas, extends the timeline for their rookie deals. That's going to be very, very important as the Cavs won't have control over their draft from 2025-29 and Mobley is going to come off his rookie deal. Having a cost-controlled pipeline of developed young guys who can join the roster will help mitigate that drought.

The only reason to convert a two-way contract to a full league minimum deal is if Porter or Nance really start to put it together on the Charge and become a flight risk. In that event, it should be I. Mobley because that's where that train is headed anyway regardless of whether he's the most deserving.

I agree with all of this pretty much. I firmly believe he belongs in the G league for at least this season and you let him just fire away.

Nothing more valuable than real game reps and it benefits nobody to sit Emoni on the end of the bench to get a few minutes of garbage time here and there

[JonFromVA]

I just have to wonder ... was Sam Merrill on our playoff roster? Or in other words was it Koby or JBB who decided we didn't need him when we were so desperate for shooting?

He, Bates, and Porter stood out .vs. Memphis' jumbo lineup.

Go figure...

Merrill is 27. He's been on an NBA roster. His defense at the next level is a problem. That said, if we were fluid enough to implement a scheme or zone defense like the Heat, it might work. You just have to practice it and experiment with it in the regular season, even if it means a couple of a additional regular season losses.

Yes, the fact the only thing we prepared to do was tighten the rotation was a major mistake, but with Allen and Mobley we can make up for a lot of defensive mistakes and Sam has at the very least proven to be scrappy.

It just seems ironic after adding so much undersized shooting this off-season and likely giving them big minutes this upcoming season, that we didn't think to carve something out for Sam. Not a major role, I get he has little pro experience, but some of those minutes we gave out to Danny, Ricky, Lamar, Isaac, etc, we might had used to see if Sam could pull out a defender.

[jasonxxx102]

I just have to wonder ... was Sam Merrill on our playoff roster? Or in other words was it Koby or JBB who decided we didn't need him when we were so desperate for shooting?

He, Bates, and Porter stood out .vs. Memphis' jumbo lineup.

Go figure...

Merrill is 27. He's been on an NBA roster. His defense at the next level is a problem. That said, if we were fluid enough to implement a scheme or zone defense like the Heat, it might work. You just have to practice it and experiment with it in the regular season, even if it means a couple of a additional regular season losses.

Yes, the fact the only thing we prepared to do was tighten the rotation was a major mistake, but with Allen and Mobley we can make up for a lot of defensive mistakes and Sam has at the very least proven to be scrappy.

It just seems ironic after adding so much undersized shooting this off-season and likely giving them big minutes this upcoming season, that we didn't think to carve something out for Sam. Not a major role, I get he has little pro experience, but some of those minutes we gave out to Danny, Ricky, Lamar, Isaac, etc, we might had used to see if Sam could pull out a defender.

Niang is a 6'7 SF/PF and Strus is a 6'5 SG/SF.

I don't think that really qualifies as undersized.

I'm gonna guess that Merrill doesn't play a single meaningful minute for the Cavs this year.

[JonFromVA]

Niang is 100% Mobley's primary back-up at the 4, in Kevin Love's old role.

Just like I told you Strus will start SF.

Niang has shot 40% from deep, 5 seasons in a row. He shot 53.4% from the corner last season.

If Wade is taking anyone's minutes next season, it's Okoro.

Like flem said, they didn't just pay Niang almost the full MLE to not play him, get real.

The guy who has never averaged more than 3 RPG is taking the backup PF role over the obviously superior player in Wade?

Right.

I have to imagine Niang is ahead of Wade on the depth chart given Wade's injury history and reluctance to shoot after coming back from his injury. A good chunk of the value add from Wade is the spacing he brings, and once the defenders start leaving him because he won't shoot, it's a problem. That doesn't, or at least shouldn't mean that Niang is always the first big off the bench. Some of this should be matchup dependent.

Also, the Cavs really need to get in the habit of rebounding as a team regardless of which big men are on the floor. No more multiple guys leaking out before we've secured the rebound.

Unless the Cavs have made commitments to these new guys, I'd expect we'd just let things play out and see what happens. History is meaningless until or unless it repeats, and either Wade has healed up his shoulder over the Summer and is good to go or he isn't.

Everyone is going to have to see.

And I get it's just something else we can speculate about, but we're still a long way off from the regular season. We and the Cavs may have some general ideas of how things will play out, but that doesn't mean a player can't force their hand to change those plans or that injuries won't happen that alter priorities.

In other words, leave some room to be pleasantly surprised.

For example ...

Like everyone says, Emoni Bates is a "baller" and his play seems to be evolving game to game. His number one weakness (his thinness, lack of strength, lack of length) has not held him back in Summer League. I don't think it's preposterous to imagine him carving out a role on the roster this season.

Sure, this likely will not happen. There are plenty of good reasons to leave him in the g-league and hope he develops; but these are people and all the stats and numbers do is tell us what did happen. Not what will happen.

[toooskies]

His TS% all time is above league average (this last season started well and fell off a cliff after the injury), he's a pretty average shooter admittedly which looked really nice next to our big 4 last year, his defense is solid and versatile, and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. The year before that? The highest DRB%.

Do I think he's an elite role player? No.

Do I think there are role players better on our team now? Yes.

Does he still have a place on the team? Probably.

His TS% all time is above league average - only if you include PG/SG which isn't really relevant. If you look at F/C he's below league average. If you look at Niang, for example, he blows him out of the water from a TS% perspective.

His pre-injury numbers were low volume and heavily skewed by 2 games (4-7 / 6-8). At no point in his career has he shown to be a consistent > 36% 3pt shooter.

and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. - I'm speaking specifically from watching him play. DRB% in small sample really doesn't prove anything, it can be influenced by any number of things. His TRB% was 9.9 which is comically low for a forward. Him being the 3rd highest Cav in DRB% (if you take out Love) just speaks to how poorly the Cavs rebounded the ball, not Wade being good or not. Also him leading the team in DRB% the year before is not true.

He's now the 4th best role playing forward on the team, if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position.

I find rebounding rates for individual players to be misleading since its a team effort to get a rebound. I understand that its hard to rely on on/off team rebounding stats to evaluate players as well. We can agree to disagree on his rebounding.

However, I think saying that "if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position" is incorrect. Even if Wade was the early version of himself throughout the year and into the playoffs, we'd still sign similar guys. Before this year we knew we needed more wing depth so we still would have grabbed at least two wings imo even if it knocked Wade down a peg.

Also, this is nitpicky, but his career 3P% is technically above 36% For a shooter who by all accounts is average in terms of efficiency and volume, his TS% is right where it should be. He doesn't take more shots than he should so it doesn't falter. He's not a big man in terms of offense. He's not rim running or a lob threat, but someone you don't really want to leave open for a three.

The thing about Wade is that last year he had one amazing week (October 23-30) where he both showed the shooting volume we want to see, a high percentage of makes (he couldn't miss), and borderline-elite defense (notably, when he slowed down Tatum). 13 of his 45 3-point makes happened in a period of 8 days. He was scorching hot. And then he very quickly wasn't. I'm not sure exactly when his injuries occurred (did he turn an ankle?), but he played 10 games in November and only shot 26% from three in that month.

I don't think you can count on Wade being a volume shooter, and especially off the bench we need volume shooting. There's a real difference between Wade's 5.1 attempts per 36 and Niang's 9.1 attempts per 36. Wade's a lot closer to Okoro (3.7/36) than to Niang, in terms of volume. Is 5.1 attempts per 36 enough for that spot? I'd say it's enough for the 5th starter but not a bench shooter when two of our core four is resting.

[JonFromVA]

If he was a lottery pick yea, I'd expect better than Cedi 2.0. Given that we got him for nothing, anything in the realm of role player is a big win

We're not rebuilding anymore though. He needs minutes to develop into the best player he can be and he's not getting gifted them on the Cavs roster. We just paid a lot of money to add two seasoned shooters to the roster.

Tbc, this is a good thing. When the Spurs built that dynasty, minutes for young players were earned. First overseas or the G League, then practice, and only later on the court in NBA games. They weren't entirely dependent on free agency to backfill their roster which helped them pay and retain their best players.

Also, signing a guy to a two-way, or having them develop overseas, extends the timeline for their rookie deals. That's going to be very, very important as the Cavs won't have control over their draft from 2025-29 and Mobley is going to come off his rookie deal. Having a cost-controlled pipeline of developed young guys who can join the roster will help mitigate that drought.

The only reason to convert a two-way contract to a full league minimum deal is if Porter or Nance really start to put it together on the Charge and become a flight risk. In that event, it should be I. Mobley because that's where that train is headed anyway regardless of whether he's the most deserving.

I agree with all of this pretty much. I firmly believe he belongs in the G league for at least this season and you let him just fire away.

Nothing more valuable than real game reps and it benefits nobody to sit Emoni on the end of the bench to get a few minutes of garbage time here and there

Just understand, it's an assumption there's something he can still learn at that level. Things that he won't just grasp in a couple of days. Maybe what he really needs is to be hanging out with better players and challenging himself to catch up to them in the weight room, in practice, and by carving out ways to contribute if/when he does see the floor?

I'm impressed he's adapted his game this much in just 3 games ... we can put the brakes on his upside when it's apparent that growth has slammed in to a wall he's not ready to scale.

[jbk1234]

His TS% all time is above league average - only if you include PG/SG which isn't really relevant. If you look at F/C he's below league average. If you look at Niang, for example, he blows him out of the water from a TS% perspective.

His pre-injury numbers were low volume and heavily skewed by 2 games (4-7 / 6-8). At no point in his career has he shown to be a consistent > 36% 3pt shooter.

and he's also not a poor rebounder. The team's DRB% when he was on the floor was the third highest of any Cav with meaningful minutes last year. - I'm speaking specifically from watching him play. DRB% in small sample really doesn't prove anything, it can be influenced by any number of things. His TRB% was 9.9 which is comically low for a forward. Him being the 3rd highest Cav in DRB% (if you take out Love) just speaks to how poorly the Cavs rebounded the ball, not Wade being good or not. Also him leading the team in DRB% the year before is not true.

He's now the 4th best role playing forward on the team, if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position.

I find rebounding rates for individual players to be misleading since its a team effort to get a rebound. I understand that its hard to rely on on/off team rebounding stats to evaluate players as well. We can agree to disagree on his rebounding.

However, I think saying that "if there was a place in the rotation for him the Cavs wouldn't have felt the need to sign 2 more guys at his position" is incorrect. Even if Wade was the early version of himself throughout the year and into the playoffs, we'd still sign similar guys. Before this year we knew we needed more wing depth so we still would have grabbed at least two wings imo even if it knocked Wade down a peg.

Also, this is nitpicky, but his career 3P% is technically above 36% For a shooter who by all accounts is average in terms of efficiency and volume, his TS% is right where it should be. He doesn't take more shots than he should so it doesn't falter. He's not a big man in terms of offense. He's not rim running or a lob threat, but someone you don't really want to leave open for a three.

The thing about Wade is that last year he had one amazing week (October 23-30) where he both showed the shooting volume we want to see, a high percentage of makes (he couldn't miss), and borderline-elite defense (notably, when he slowed down Tatum). 13 of his 45 3-point makes happened in a period of 8 days. He was scorching hot. And then he very quickly wasn't. I'm not sure exactly when his injuries occurred (did he turn an ankle?), but he played 10 games in November and only shot 26% from three in that month.

I don't think you can count on Wade being a volume shooter, and especially off the bench we need volume shooting. There's a real difference between Wade's 5.1 attempts per 36 and Niang's 9.1 attempts per 36. Wade's a lot closer to Okoro (3.7/36) than to Niang, in terms of volume. Is 5.1 attempts per 36 enough for that spot? I'd say it's enough for the 5th starter but not a bench shooter when two of our core four is resting.

I would hope that Niang and Okoro rotate in and out together to avoid too much imbalance in one direction or the other, but even with that, there are going to be opposing units that force Niang back to the bench, especially if his shot isn't falling. Rather than have JBB break the put-the-starters-back-in glass every time that happens, Wade can check in.

I really hope we're not rigid to the point of being brittle again heading into the playoffs.

[jasonxxx102]

We're not rebuilding anymore though. He needs minutes to develop into the best player he can be and he's not getting gifted them on the Cavs roster. We just paid a lot of money to add two seasoned shooters to the roster.

Tbc, this is a good thing. When the Spurs built that dynasty, minutes for young players were earned. First overseas or the G League, then practice, and only later on the court in NBA games. They weren't entirely dependent on free agency to backfill their roster which helped them pay and retain their best players.

Also, signing a guy to a two-way, or having them develop overseas, extends the timeline for their rookie deals. That's going to be very, very important as the Cavs won't have control over their draft from 2025-29 and Mobley is going to come off his rookie deal. Having a cost-controlled pipeline of developed young guys who can join the roster will help mitigate that drought.

The only reason to convert a two-way contract to a full league minimum deal is if Porter or Nance really start to put it together on the Charge and become a flight risk. In that event, it should be I. Mobley because that's where that train is headed anyway regardless of whether he's the most deserving.

I agree with all of this pretty much. I firmly believe he belongs in the G league for at least this season and you let him just fire away.

Nothing more valuable than real game reps and it benefits nobody to sit Emoni on the end of the bench to get a few minutes of garbage time here and there

Just understand, it's an assumption there's something he can still learn at that level. Things that he won't just grasp in a couple of days. Maybe what he really needs is to be hanging out with better players and challenging himself to catch up to them in the weight room, in practice, and by carving out ways to contribute if/when he does see the floor?

I'm impressed he's adapted his game this much in just 3 games ... we can put the brakes on his upside when it's apparent that growth has slammed in to a wall he's not ready to scale.

I'm not saying he can't make the roster. I was more saying that based on how the team is currently constructed he is better off getting real game reps in the g league where he can be more of a primary scorer and work on his craft rather than just practice with the Cavs and maybe get some spot minutes here and there

[JonFromVA]

Merrill is 27. He's been on an NBA roster. His defense at the next level is a problem. That said, if we were fluid enough to implement a scheme or zone defense like the Heat, it might work. You just have to practice it and experiment with it in the regular season, even if it means a couple of a additional regular season losses.

Yes, the fact the only thing we prepared to do was tighten the rotation was a major mistake, but with Allen and Mobley we can make up for a lot of defensive mistakes and Sam has at the very least proven to be scrappy.

It just seems ironic after adding so much undersized shooting this off-season and likely giving them big minutes this upcoming season, that we didn't think to carve something out for Sam. Not a major role, I get he has little pro experience, but some of those minutes we gave out to Danny, Ricky, Lamar, Isaac, etc, we might had used to see if Sam could pull out a defender.

Niang is a 6'7 SF/PF and Strus is a 6'5 SG/SF.

I don't think that really qualifies as undersized.

I'm gonna guess that Merrill doesn't play a single meaningful minute for the Cavs this year.

Niang is undersized as a PF and Strus is undersized as a SF. These are areas we were willing to compromise to add their shooting and experience to the team.

As I pointed out, a lot of the players we'd been kicking tires on before free-agency started were not particularly long compared to players like Okoro let alone Mitchell. This is why I argued if our goal was to add length, we needed to be looking at players like Jalen McDaniels (7'0.25" wingspan). Instead we chose to focus on shooting and we'll hope BBIQ, some girth, and effort will make up for physical length.

Merrill is sort of a slightly shorter and less all-around skilled version of Strus with a quick trigger that might actually be a better shooter; who just happened to cost us nothing and was sitting on our roster rotting.

[jbk1234]

We're not rebuilding anymore though. He needs minutes to develop into the best player he can be and he's not getting gifted them on the Cavs roster. We just paid a lot of money to add two seasoned shooters to the roster.

Tbc, this is a good thing. When the Spurs built that dynasty, minutes for young players were earned. First overseas or the G League, then practice, and only later on the court in NBA games. They weren't entirely dependent on free agency to backfill their roster which helped them pay and retain their best players.

Also, signing a guy to a two-way, or having them develop overseas, extends the timeline for their rookie deals. That's going to be very, very important as the Cavs won't have control over their draft from 2025-29 and Mobley is going to come off his rookie deal. Having a cost-controlled pipeline of developed young guys who can join the roster will help mitigate that drought.

The only reason to convert a two-way contract to a full league minimum deal is if Porter or Nance really start to put it together on the Charge and become a flight risk. In that event, it should be I. Mobley because that's where that train is headed anyway regardless of whether he's the most deserving.

I agree with all of this pretty much. I firmly believe he belongs in the G league for at least this season and you let him just fire away.

Nothing more valuable than real game reps and it benefits nobody to sit Emoni on the end of the bench to get a few minutes of garbage time here and there

Just understand, it's an assumption there's something he can still learn at that level. Things that he won't just grasp in a couple of days. Maybe what he really needs is to be hanging out with better players and challenging himself to catch up to them in the weight room, in practice, and by carving out ways to contribute if/when he does see the floor?

I'm impressed he's adapted his game this much in just 3 games ... we can put the brakes on his upside when it's apparent that growth has slammed in to a wall he's not ready to scale.

He's also playing on a much better SL team than most rookies. I. Mobley, Cooper, Travers, etc. have all been there before. We have multiple PGs on that roster. Some of our opponents have none. We're actually running set plays. Some of our opponents look like they're jacking up shots in a pick up game.

If it comes this easy to him in the G League, with relative parity, then it may be worth reconsidering, but all the AL QBs look really good before they're drafted.

[JonFromVA]

I agree with all of this pretty much. I firmly believe he belongs in the G league for at least this season and you let him just fire away.

Nothing more valuable than real game reps and it benefits nobody to sit Emoni on the end of the bench to get a few minutes of garbage time here and there

Just understand, it's an assumption there's something he can still learn at that level. Things that he won't just grasp in a couple of days. Maybe what he really needs is to be hanging out with better players and challenging himself to catch up to them in the weight room, in practice, and by carving out ways to contribute if/when he does see the floor?

I'm impressed he's adapted his game this much in just 3 games ... we can put the brakes on his upside when it's apparent that growth has slammed in to a wall he's not ready to scale.

I'm not saying he can't make the roster. I was more saying that based on how the team is currently constructed he is better off getting real game reps in the g league where he can be more of a primary scorer and work on his craft rather than just practice with the Cavs and maybe get some spot minutes here and there

And I'm just saying that while you're likely right and it's the likely outcome, there's no way we can know for certain at this point. Gerrity and his Charge players have impressed, but what if he's unable to keep Emoni focused? What if like I suggested what he really needs is to be around pro players and forced to try to keep up with them?

Fortunately even with Emoni on a two way we have a lot of flexibility to split his time up however it makes sense; at least until his eligibility runs out.