Official Trade Thread Part XLVII

[prime1time]

Read on Twitter

By surprising name they must mean Sarr or Coulibaly.

[tontoz]

By surprising name they must mean Sarr or Coulibaly.

I am fine with that. Harper is one of the few guys Ive seen that would have been ready for the NBA straight out of HS.

[gambitx777]

I'm not a fan of that. I like the team and thing we have a solid core. I really like kon and queen. I think we can maneuver that with our giving up a ton of ****.

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[prime1time]

I'm not a fan of that. I like the team and thing we have a solid core. I really like kon and queen. I think we can maneuver that with our giving up a ton of ****.

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Can't have a solid core until you have a potential star

[gambitx777]

I'm not a fan of that. I like the team and thing we have a solid core. I really like kon and queen. I think we can maneuver that with our giving up a ton of ****.

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Can't have a solid core until you have a potential star

Really? Where was SGA drafted ? Where was hali drafted? 11 and 12 and their teams didn't even draft them. Don't tell me you have to see your soul for a top #2 pick. We need to start the course for now.

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[payitforward]

...SG-A, Haliburton, Jokic, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Jarrett Allen, Jalen Duren, Josh Hart, Brqndon Clarke, Walker Kessler, Alex Caruso, Ty Jerome, Payton Pritchard, GPII, Tari Eason, Justin Champagnie, Tre Jones, Jonathan Isaac, Rudy Gobert, Ivica Zubac, Derrick White, Isaiah Hartenstein, Keon Ellis, Desmond Bane, Aaron Wiggins, Kevon Looney….

[gambitx777]

...SG-A, Haliburton, Jokic, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Jarrett Allen, Jalen Duren, Josh Hart, Brqndon Clarke, Walker Kessler, Alex Caruso, Ty Jerome, Payton Pritchard, GPII, Tari Eason, Justin Champagnie, Tre Jones, Jonathan Isaac, Rudy Gobert, Ivica Zubac, Derrick White, Isaiah Hartenstein, Keon Ellis, Desmond Bane, Aaron Wiggins, Kevon Looney….

I don't see why trading up to two when after #1 the talent level is very similar in the next 4-7 picks. Like I'd stay pat. Trust my scouts and move on.

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[nate33]

...SG-A, Haliburton, Jokic, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Jarrett Allen, Jalen Duren, Josh Hart, Brqndon Clarke, Walker Kessler, Alex Caruso, Ty Jerome, Payton Pritchard, GPII, Tari Eason, Justin Champagnie, Tre Jones, Jonathan Isaac, Rudy Gobert, Ivica Zubac, Derrick White, Isaiah Hartenstein, Keon Ellis, Desmond Bane, Aaron Wiggins, Kevon Looney….

The first six guys are the only legit first option stars on your list. The rest are role players. Nobody is suggesting we trade up to grab the next Tari Eason or Josh Hart. Those types of players can certainly be found later. The discussion here is on whether or not it is prudent to trade up to grab a first-option star

Notwithstanding the six superstars found late in the draft that you mentioned, typically, star-caliber first-option type players are found in the top 5, at least the ones who also have size to be a neutral or positive defender

Tatum
Cade
Edwards
Doncic
Durant
Lebron
Harden
Embiid
Westbrook
Wemby
Davis
KAT
Banchero

Sometimes you can find an undersized first option star a bit later. These guys would have gone top 5 if they were 2 inches taller, but slipped to the 5-12 range because they were perceived as defensive liabilities:

Lillard
Curry
Trae Young

[penbeast0]

Read on Twitter

By surprising name they must mean Sarr or Coulibaly.

Depends on who you are quoting. To us Bilal is the expected cost to move from 6 to 2, Sarr would be unexpected (and who I would assume the Spurs are asking if they are seriously talking), a guy like Arenas unexpected is likely to mean Jordan Poole.

[DCZards]

I don't see why trading up to two when after #1 the talent level is very similar in the next 4-7 picks. Like I'd stay pat. Trust my scouts and move on.

But is the talent level similar after #1 (Flagg)?

I don’t have a problem standing pat but I’m also for trying to get that #2 pick because I can see both Flagg and Harper being special.

[gambitx777]

I don't see why trading up to two when after #1 the talent level is very similar in the next 4-7 picks. Like I'd stay pat. Trust my scouts and move on.

But is the talent level similar after #1 (Flagg)?

I don’t have a problem standing pat but I’m also for trying to get that #2 pick because I can see both Flagg and Harper being special.

Do I think ace bailey is worth 6 18 sar or bc and stuff . No I do not.

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[Rafael122]

I don't see why trading up to two when after #1 the talent level is very similar in the next 4-7 picks. Like I'd stay pat. Trust my scouts and move on.

But is the talent level similar after #1 (Flagg)?

I don’t have a problem standing pat but I’m also for trying to get that #2 pick because I can see both Flagg and Harper being special.

I'll just say this: Harper is the 2nd best prospect in the draft, but there's still holes in his game, specifically the shooting. It's why I question the fit with the Spurs b/c Castle can't shoot, Fox is inconsistent and now you're bringing in another lead guard who has the same issues.

[TGW]

Random idea:

Coulibaly for Castle. If the Wizards draft Bailey, they'll have a glut of forwards. Castle can slide into the backcourt with Poole and be the main ballhandler and POA defender.

Poole
Castle
Bailey
Sarr
Queen?

[closg00]

Smart & Middleton for Paul George works for Philly, but they gotta swap #3 to us

[payitforward]

...SG-A, Haliburton, Jokic, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Jarrett Allen, Jalen Duren, Josh Hart, Brqndon Clarke, Walker Kessler, Alex Caruso, Ty Jerome, Payton Pritchard, GPII, Tari Eason, Justin Champagnie, Tre Jones, Jonathan Isaac, Rudy Gobert, Ivica Zubac, Derrick White, Isaiah Hartenstein, Keon Ellis, Desmond Bane, Aaron Wiggins, Kevon Looney….

The first six guys are the only legit first option stars on your list. The rest are role players. Nobody is suggesting we trade up to grab the next Tari Eason or Josh Hart. Those types of players can certainly be found later. The discussion here is on whether or not it is prudent to trade up to grab a first-option star

Notwithstanding the six superstars found late in the draft that you mentioned, typically, star-caliber first-option type players are found in the top 5...

Tatum
Cade
Edwards
Doncic
Durant
Lebron
Harden
Embiid
Westbrook
Wemby
Davis
KAT
Banchero...

Top 5? Every one of those guys was taken at 1, 2 or 3. Have I missed someone taken lower?

Here's another list. Tell me how you like it:

Andrea Bagnani
Tyrus Thomas
Adam Morrison
Shelden Williams
Michael Beasley
OJ Mayo
Greg Oden
Hasheem Thabeet
tyreke evans
jonny flynn
Evan turner
wes johnson
ekpe udoh
derrick williams
enes kanter
MK-G
Dion Waiters
Thomas Robinson
Anthony Bennett
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Nerlens Noel
Jabari Parker
Dante Exum
Jahlil Okafor
Mario Hezonja
Willie Cauley-Stein
Dragan Bender
Buddy Hield
Kriss Dunn
Markelle Fultz
Lonzo Ball
Josh Jackson
DeAndre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Mo Bamba
Zion Williamson
RJ Barrett
Jarred Culver
James Wiseman
Patrick Williams
Isaac Okoro
Jalen Green

That is a list of guys taken mostly from 1-5, with a couple of pick 7s in there I think. Every last one of them was/is a bust -- either altogether (in most cases) or at least in severely underperforming expectations. In every single case, there were guys taken 20 or more picks after them who had or are having outstanding NBA careers.

...Sometimes you can find an undersized first option star a bit later....

Lillard
Curry
Trae Young

Or a non-undersized one: Kawhi, Butler, George, Dray... the list goes on for a while.

But, let's simply agree that "sometimes" you can find anything -- a R2 superstar or whatever. A superstar at 30, or 15, or 10 or 42. "Sometimes" is not what we are talking about.

The problem here is conceptual, & In any case, only fans think this way. About "stars" and "superstars." A GM has the much tougher & real-er task of figuring out who the best player is at the spot he has & taking that guy. Tough enough that they don't succeed all that often!

Or, marginally, they have the even tougher job of trying to be just that little smarter than another GM & trading up (or down) for a somewhat better player or set of players.

If there's general agreement that a guy has a shot to be an actual "first option star," he's going 1, or 2 (if there are 2 of them) or 3 (if there are 3), & you aren't trading up for him.

So, yes, except for many many exceptions, the best players go in the first 3 picks of the draft -- leaving aside all those who go at other spots, that is. It'd be a weird world if nobody ever stood out.

OTOH, without looking up their names tell me the 8 guys who went from 2-9 in the 2010 draft. Here's a hint: none of them were named Lance Stephenson. He went at 40.