Los Manos wrote:Double Helix wrote:I think if you can accept the following things from the 8th pick in a draft that doesn't seem to have many clear-cut alphas then the pick *should* be Lamb. If BC doesn't like him though that's a different story.
1) Although we need an alpha/franchise player, this pick doesn't have to be that player. We may not be in a position to get that player in this draft and should instead get the best mixture of talent with low bust potential.
2) A sidekick type of player or third banana type (essentially your PER 17-19 types) of player doesn't need to be an amazing interview. These types aren't the franchise faces and don't have to be be as well spoken or have as much leadership ability as what you'd look for in your alpha. Rasheed Wallace was pretty crazy at times and also seemed very laid back and, well, a little dumb at times but he was still a very dominant basketball player.
3) Some players, and Lamar Odom, and Vince immediately come to mind, are simply more talented than others without pushing themselves to the max. They're naturals. And while it may be frustrating to always imagine what "could be" if they did push themselves... these types can sometimes be better than players who do have high motors and do push themselves to the max.
If you can accept all 3 of those points as true then I think Lamb makes the most sense at 8 as the potential BPA. He's only a month past the age of 20 and everything that we're talking about with him is what will probably hold him back from simply being a great player. Nothing seems likely to hold him back from becoming very good. And even less things seem likely to turn him into a bust. And in the NBA at the moment... there are hardly even good/average SGs so the idea of adding a guy who without much work will be a good one and with some luck/growth/coaching could be very good, well, that's good enough for me at 8. There just aren't that many good SGs in the league right now. He was one of the better players in college basketball this year, playing on a dysfunctional team in a much tougher conference than Lillard. He's 2 years younger than Lillard and seems to be peaking late. He seems to have growth left. He gets up about as high as Derozan does/did and will be entering the league with a much better handle and feel for the game than what Demar had. I think he's the BPA... warts and all.
We need to get our franchise piece some other way. And it's the fact that we're searching so desperately for that piece here at 8 is why we're looking at Lamb's interviews and thinking, "I don't want that guy to be our superstar." He won't be our superstar. We'll still need a superstar. Lamb could someday be a key piece on a winning basketball team as a SG though and we shouldn't pass that up simply because he doesn't have the charisma or the high intensity that you'd like to see in a superstar. There's nothing wrong with getting your sidekick or third banana type before your franchise piece. The Bulls faced the same situation drafting Luol Deng before lucking into Derrick Rose. He has everything he needs even if he doesn't fully apply himself to become a top 10 player at his position strictly because the SG spot is that weak. Getting an impact player there makes sense. We can get an impact PG another way.
Great post and all valid points. Your slice of perspective is needed because as you say too many are dismissing Lamb entirely because he doesn't have the mental make-up of a perennial all-star. We're drafting 8th, in a draft with only one surefire all-star in Anthony Davis. It may be a deep draft but not in franchise changing potential. To come away from the 8th spot with a 2nd/3rd option starter would be a success and as you say, to be that kind of player you don't have to be a leader in the lock-room or a brilliant interview. You need talent, a skill-set for your position and to at least be coachable. Lamb may not be the most tuned in during this workout and combine process and isn't particularly engaging in front of the camera but he's clearly not a bad kid. He is coachable and was remarkably consistant statistically game to game over the season, something which undermines the notion that he is prone to losing focus and lacking a motor.
The raptors brass saw Jeremy Lamb workout before any other prospect around the time of the lottery. Lamb believed he had a good workout and made his shots. It wouldn't surprise me to see the raptors do their due diligence on the other prospects available in our draft range first and then bring Lamb in last of the group. That would certainly follow the pattern they took with DeRozan who they clearly targeted early on and who was the last workout at the ACC in 2009.
Great points here, especially the bolded part. You and I are on the same page.
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