76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[dhsilv2]

None of the above is keeping the Sixers hostage, though. Want an example of a player keeping a team hostage? AD with NOLA and Kawhi with the Spurs. In these cases, the franchises would love to keep the player but the player in question was very clear that he wanted out. That can be seen as keeping a team hostage, yes.

This, though? Again, the Sixers do not actually want to keep Simmons. They want to trade him. They do not believe that they can win with him and, frankly, I do not blame them. If I was a Sixers fan, I'd want the team to trade him as well. But as Salmons to Rose said, I'd also be livid at how this situation has played out so far.

Where are you getting this from? The 76ers have been steadfast on wanting to keep Ben. The only time they looked at trading him I'm aware of was after his demand and when they had a shot at adding James Harden. None of this indicates they don't think they can win with him or that they want to trade him.

His coach's comments after game 7 were pretty clear:

Watch on YouTube

The Sixers also clearly looked at trading Simmons this off-season. It's why they fielded so many offers in the first place. Both sides want to move on. I'm not sure why so many people in this thread are pretending otherwise.

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear. They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

[Nuntius]

And you keep misunderstanding my point, it seems. Allow me to say it once again:

I am NOT saying that the Sixers did anything wrong by trying to trade Simmons. I am NOT saying that Simmons is justified to want out because they tried to trade him. I am NOT saying any of that stuff so please stop implying that this is what I'm trying to say.

My whole point is the following:

The Sixers are trying to portray themselves as jilted lovers here and that's simply not the case. They aren't a team that is being strong-armed into trading a player that they don't want to trade. They absolutely want to trade Simmons. They simply haven't found a deal that they consider good enough for them yet which is why we have this ridiculous saga going on.

Simmons isn't the only one holding out here. The Sixers are also holding out in hopes of finding a great deal that is never going to come.

So looking at potential trades for a player and determining he's more valuable than what teams are offering = holding out?

No? Where did you get that idea? I definitely didn't say that this was the holding out part.

The holding out part for the Sixers is their ridiculous demands. They are poisoning the well with their ridiculous demands (a crapton of picks plus good players) that are far above Simmons' value. They are clearly stalling and waiting to see if another star becomes disgruntled and requests a trade. And, yeah, that's holding out.

All of the people in this thread who believe that the Sixers are doing that for some "greater good of the league" or out of some principle against "the player empowerment movement" are missing the forest for the trees. The Sixers aren't trying to battle that system. They are waiting to profit from it and use Simmons to poach another team's stars. Blazers fans, in particular, shouldn't be supporting the Sixers here since they're clearly targetting Dame.

[Nuntius]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

[Flash4thewin]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

Common sense dude just stop. Simmons signed a contract, that contract stipulates he can be traded. Simmons signed that contract. If Simmons had a no trade clause the issue would be different. Common sense duh, the 76er via the contract signed are the ones who have every right to trade him if they wish, that’s something Simmons signed up for.

[dhsilv2]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

The only trade talk was for Harden. That doesn't indicate ANYTHING about the team's view of Simmons. Doc was speaking after a game 7 in the playoffs. There's no reasonable case where words said in that context should be seen as in any way meaningful and again Doc's not the guy in charge of personnel. Coaches are a dime a dozen.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

There's no player on the Pacers they wouldn't deal straight up for Doncic, so it would only be right if the entire team requested a trade out of Indy.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

And you keep misunderstanding my point, it seems. Allow me to say it once again:

I am NOT saying that the Sixers did anything wrong by trying to trade Simmons. I am NOT saying that Simmons is justified to want out because they tried to trade him. I am NOT saying any of that stuff so please stop implying that this is what I'm trying to say.

My whole point is the following:

The Sixers are trying to portray themselves as jilted lovers here and that's simply not the case. They aren't a team that is being strong-armed into trading a player that they don't want to trade. They absolutely want to trade Simmons. They simply haven't found a deal that they consider good enough for them yet which is why we have this ridiculous saga going on.

Simmons isn't the only one holding out here. The Sixers are also holding out in hopes of finding a great deal that is never going to come.

So looking at potential trades for a player and determining he's more valuable than what teams are offering = holding out?

No? Where did you get that idea? I definitely didn't say that this was the holding out part.

The holding out part for the Sixers is their ridiculous demands. They are poisoning the well with their ridiculous demands (a crapton of picks plus good players) that are far above Simmons' value. They are clearly stalling and waiting to see if another star becomes disgruntled and requests a trade. And, yeah, that's holding out.

All of the people in this thread who believe that the Sixers are doing that for some "greater good of the league" or out of some principle against "the player empowerment movement" are missing the forest for the trees. The Sixers aren't trying to battle that system. They are waiting to profit from it and use Simmons to poach another team's stars. Blazers fans, in particular, shouldn't be supporting the Sixers here since they're clearly targetting Dame.

Your definition of "holding out" is quite bizzarre, and shows quite a strong bias on your side.
They have every right to demand that things continue BAU until a trade of their likings becomes available.
And, if no trade comes, continue as it is today.
The only person not performing what he's contractly obliged to is Ben.
Hence "holding out".

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[SecondTake]

Mental health is health, bro.

Try to reconsider your post with that in mind? Health? Like an injury?

Im trying my best to break it down to its simplest form- because thats just what it is, regardless of what your reality says. And regardless of how much anger or jealousy you may temporarily have.

Stop anthropomorphizing millionaire superstar athletes. Once youre that rich in your 20s you have no excuses. I don't wanna hear about the mental health of a rich 20 something.

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Money buys you access to mental health services. Ben is using them now. You can question why hes using them instead of before when he acquired his millions.

Guess what.

Thats not how seeking mental health treatment works for everyone. Millionaire or not. Stigma is one of many reasons why people don't.

Not everyone is Demar or Kevin Love, where they're comfortable going through it then openly speaking about it. Everyone has different stories. Everyone has different lived experiences.

The point is you should not have mental health problems if youre super rich. You deserve no sympathy at that point. We need to stop comparing superstars with human beings that we know. Humanization of these players is a detriment to the sport.

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[bebopdeluxe]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

WHERE THE F DID THE SIXERS SAY "THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN WITH HIM"?

AARRGGHH!!! ;lkgshd;lkhsd;iovjas;ijhas;lijvfaslijczLKDvjcZDLKc!!!!!!!!



Doc was asked "do you think Ben Simmons is a championship level PG?" Did Doc say NO? HUH?

POST THE LINK where Doc Rivers or ANYONE representing the Sixers organization said "WE DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN WIN WITH BEN SIMMONS".

I'll wait.

I just listened to Doc's Game 7 postgame comments AGAIN. In his first answer relating to Ben, Doc said they "still believe in him, but we have a lot of work to do" - does THAT sound like "they don't believe they can win with him"? Huh?

And as far as the money quote, as to whether Ben can be the PG of a championship-level team, here is the EXACT quote:

"Yeah, David, I don't know that question - or the answer to that question right now"

So, after leading his comments by saying that he "still believed in him", Doc said he didn't know if Ben could be a championship level point guard...which 1) is not an unrealistic answer, given how Ben played in the series, and 2) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as "we don't believe we can win with Ben Simmons".

You are absolutely BRUTAL, bro. BRUTAL.

[Nuntius]

Doc doesn't really have a say nor did he make it clear.

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.

They fielded offers this off season AFTER there was a request and based on the demands it was clear they ONLY wanted to move Simmons if it was an obvious win for them. That doesn't indicate a strong desire to move him whatsoever.

Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

Common sense dude just stop. Simmons signed a contract, that contract stipulates he can be traded. Simmons signed that contract. If Simmons had a no trade clause the issue would be different. Common sense duh, the 76er via the contract signed are the ones who have every right to trade him if they wish, that’s something Simmons signed up for.

Once again, I'm not saying that the Sixers don't have the right to trade him. In fact, I'm saying that they should trade him. It is one of the two things that I am advocating for in this thread. The other is that mental health should be taken more seriously and not be as summarily dismissed as it is in this thread.

[FrodoFraggins]

You just sound jealous, extremely jealous.

Situations effect people in different ways. If he is having a true mental health issue that isn’t conducive to performing in from of millions of people then the contract allows for that.


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If he really has a "true mental health issue" then (of course depending on how the CBA is structured as I'm sure lawyers from both sides could argue things both ways) he should probably work with the team and be cooperative with them to get thru it. I'm sure Kevin Love and others who have had mental health issues were communicative and cooperated with their teams about the time they would miss.

I mean he shouldn't use their doctors as they have a conflict of interest. But his provider(s) should communicate as required with the team. Any decent mental health professional is not going to provide a time estimate on his return, which is something the sixers seem to expect.

Morey is a moron and keeps making blunders. Just pay the dude to stay away and make sure you trade him by the deadline.

[dhsilv2]

I don't know, man. Saying that you aren't sure if you can win a title with one of your team's stars seems pretty definitive to me. Doc is out on Simmons and he has every right and reason to be.



Right and Simmons only asked out after the Sixers had already included him in trade talks and then said that they don't believe they can win with him.

Again, why are we pretending that both sides want to move on? The hang-up here is that both sides want it to happen on their own terms.

Common sense dude just stop. Simmons signed a contract, that contract stipulates he can be traded. Simmons signed that contract. If Simmons had a no trade clause the issue would be different. Common sense duh, the 76er via the contract signed are the ones who have every right to trade him if they wish, that’s something Simmons signed up for.

Once again, I'm not saying that the Sixers don't have the right to trade him. In fact, I'm saying that they should trade him. It is one of the two things that I am advocating for in this thread. The other is that mental health should be taken more seriously and not be as summarily dismissed as it is in this thread.

Given Ben even mentioned his free throw shooting in the playoffs was mental...I think there's a VERY good reason to think ben's got some issues, especially with his family issues. He's done a poor job as a professional with this, but there's just no excuse for people giving him AS MUCH crap as they have over the mental issues. That doesn't excuse him from refusing to work with the 76ers on this issue either though.

And it seems somewhat crazy for the 76ers to move on from Ben before they at least get some level of understanding of what he's going through. A trade likely won't magically solve things if he's really going through something and needs help. All the more reason why this push to rush and trade ben has never made sense to me.

[Nuntius]

Given Ben even mentioned his free throw shooting in the playoffs was mental...I think there's a VERY good reason to think ben's got some issues, especially with his family issues. He's done a poor job as a professional with this, but there's just no excuse for people giving him AS MUCH crap as they have over the mental issues.

Agreed.

That doesn't excuse him from refusing to work with the 76ers on this issue either though.

And it seems somewhat crazy for the 76ers to move on from Ben before they at least get some level of understanding of what he's going through. A trade likely won't magically solve things if he's really going through something and needs help. All the more reason why this push to rush and trade ben has never made sense to me.

I would agree if the possibility of his employment with the Sixers affecting his mental health wasn't as strong as it seems.

[dhsilv2]

Given Ben even mentioned his free throw shooting in the playoffs was mental...I think there's a VERY good reason to think ben's got some issues, especially with his family issues. He's done a poor job as a professional with this, but there's just no excuse for people giving him AS MUCH crap as they have over the mental issues.

Agreed.

That doesn't excuse him from refusing to work with the 76ers on this issue either though.

And it seems somewhat crazy for the 76ers to move on from Ben before they at least get some level of understanding of what he's going through. A trade likely won't magically solve things if he's really going through something and needs help. All the more reason why this push to rush and trade ben has never made sense to me.

I would agree if the possibility of his employment with the Sixers affecting his mental health wasn't as strong as it seems.

I don't think we have enough information to judge on that. I'm sure anyone with mental issues is going to look for anything to blame and the team is the biggest and easiest target.

[Nuntius]

No he doesn't. Just extremely realistic. I'm not sure what the big deal is - if he doesn't play, he doesn't get the money. Why is this a problem for some? Should I also be demanding money from NBA? I am not tall enough, strong enough or skilled enough. But that shouldn't be a reason for me to not be paid by the league.

It's one thing if he was actually fired and kicked out of the league. But he hasn't been fired and kicked out of the league. He is just not being paid, because he is not fulfilling his contract. He can come back and start receiving salary once he "feels better".

Mental health is health, bro.

Try to reconsider your post with that in mind? Health? Like an injury?

Im trying my best to break it down to its simplest form- because thats just what it is, regardless of what your reality says. And regardless of how much anger or jealousy you may temporarily have.

Stop anthropomorphizing millionaire superstar athletes. Once youre that rich in your 20s you have no excuses. I don't wanna hear about the mental health of a rich 20 something.

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Anthropomorphizing? You're aware about what you're implying here, right? To anthropomorphize something is to make something non-human into human. Like, you know, billion-dollar companies like it's the trend lately (seen those sassy Wendy tweets?).

The athletes you're talking about, though, are human. Your choice of words here imply that you're seeing them as something less than human which is just sickening. Is this what you truly meant? That you don't view NBA players as human?

[Nuntius]

No one cares about his sister. Every family has their own stuff and players play thru it. He really doesn't belong in the NBA

Right we all have family members going through difficult times. For many of us that leads to compassion and understanding.

It's a hell of a coincidence though that he's going thru all of this now...the same time he wants to be traded.

Dude, all that stuff with his family occurred before the playoffs even begun. It's why some people are saying that this was the cause of his playoff performance. You are way off here, once again.

[Nuntius]

Given Ben even mentioned his free throw shooting in the playoffs was mental...I think there's a VERY good reason to think ben's got some issues, especially with his family issues. He's done a poor job as a professional with this, but there's just no excuse for people giving him AS MUCH crap as they have over the mental issues.

Agreed.

That doesn't excuse him from refusing to work with the 76ers on this issue either though.

And it seems somewhat crazy for the 76ers to move on from Ben before they at least get some level of understanding of what he's going through. A trade likely won't magically solve things if he's really going through something and needs help. All the more reason why this push to rush and trade ben has never made sense to me.

I would agree if the possibility of his employment with the Sixers affecting his mental health wasn't as strong as it seems.

I don't think we have enough information to judge on that. I'm sure anyone with mental issues is going to look for anything to blame and the team is the biggest and easiest target.

I agree, it is definitely not on us to judge one way or the other.

[Nuntius]

You just sound jealous, extremely jealous.

Situations effect people in different ways. If he is having a true mental health issue that isn’t conducive to performing in from of millions of people then the contract allows for that.


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If he really has a "true mental health issue" then (of course depending on how the CBA is structured as I'm sure lawyers from both sides could argue things both ways) he should probably work with the team and be cooperative with them to get thru it. I'm sure Kevin Love and others who have had mental health issues were communicative and cooperated with their teams about the time they would miss.

Different people, different problems, different teams. I also don't think that we should ignore that the Sixers have a history of creating weird medical sagas with the players. I do not consider that a coincidence.

[dhsilv2]

Right we all have family members going through difficult times. For many of us that leads to compassion and understanding.

It's a hell of a coincidence though that he's going thru all of this now...the same time he wants to be traded.

Dude, all that stuff with his family occurred before the playoffs even begun. It's why some people are saying that this was the cause of his playoff performance. You are way off here, once again.

For clarity to those who missed this stuff.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/12/ben-simmons-sister-olivia-accuses-their-half-brother-sean-tribe-of-sexual-abuse/

This is from April of 2021, before the playoffs. If something like this wouldn't bother you...you're just not human.

[magicman1978]

And you keep misunderstanding my point, it seems. Allow me to say it once again:

I am NOT saying that the Sixers did anything wrong by trying to trade Simmons. I am NOT saying that Simmons is justified to want out because they tried to trade him. I am NOT saying any of that stuff so please stop implying that this is what I'm trying to say.

My whole point is the following:

The Sixers are trying to portray themselves as jilted lovers here and that's simply not the case. They aren't a team that is being strong-armed into trading a player that they don't want to trade. They absolutely want to trade Simmons. They simply haven't found a deal that they consider good enough for them yet which is why we have this ridiculous saga going on.

Simmons isn't the only one holding out here. The Sixers are also holding out in hopes of finding a great deal that is never going to come.

So looking at potential trades for a player and determining he's more valuable than what teams are offering = holding out?

No? Where did you get that idea? I definitely didn't say that this was the holding out part.

The holding out part for the Sixers is their ridiculous demands. They are poisoning the well with their ridiculous demands (a crapton of picks plus good players) that are far above Simmons' value. They are clearly stalling and waiting to see if another star becomes disgruntled and requests a trade. And, yeah, that's holding out.

I'm trying to point out the lack of logic in saying the Sixers are "holding out". Why do the Sixers have ridiculous demands? Because they value Ben more than what they are being offered. So if they don't want to give up Ben for what they've been offered, that means they prefer to keep him. If that means they are holding out, then every team in this league is holding out for certain players. That doesn't give a right for Ben, or the Sixers, to ignore their contractual obligations.