China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

[E-Balla]

Now E-balla is downplaying the right to vote, and discussing the long game of a British Empire that doesn’t exist. As if Boris, who can’t manage London, is the mastermind behind keeping Hong Kong “Europeanized”. Are we in parody territory?

This had been in play before Boris could spell Hong Kong. The man who wrote 99 years explicitly said the UK had no intention of ever giving up Hong Kong and as long as their businesses stay in HK and stay recording profits that benefit the UK they haven't given it up.

You'd have to be naive to believe a European power willingly gave up that much wealth for moral reasons.

[seccom]

you know what's hysterical about all of this? Cato institute did a freedom index study in which HK placed THIRD in the world...the US placed...17th:



full report: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2018-revised.pdf

highest freedom level on the economic freedom scale...THAT is actually the HKers are protesting (wealth gap is running rampant, but I digress).

the hypocrisy levels are at an all time high I see.

HK is protesting for Universal Suffrage and against Police Brutality, not more freedom. What hypocrisy?

literally everyone in this thread thinks HKers are protesting for freedom.

That is good also, going for #1.

[clyde21]

HK is protesting for Universal Suffrage and against Police Brutality, not more freedom. What hypocrisy?

literally everyone in this thread thinks HKers are protesting for freedom.

That is good also, going for #1.

id worry more about being #17 than what number HK is

[PD28]

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

No one thinks this is part of a vast conspiracy to overthrow Trump. It's part of a clearly defined pattern of America and Western Democracies supporting worldwide European imperialism though. Do I think Morey just did it without thinking? Of course. Do I think the cultural support of European imperialism is why he wasn't thinking when he sent that tweet out? Yup.

"No one thinks this is part of a vast conspiracy. Also, this is part of a vast conspiracy"

The USSR installed CPC government trying to put down a protest by the citizens of Hong Kong, a territory the UK handed over peacefully a long time ago, has nothing to do with the West. Russia has more of a hand in the current protests, because if the KMT wasn't overthrown, there wouldn't be any protests. So at least be honest about your conspiracies, this is the Eastern Imperialists (Russias) fault.

Bro you sound crazy and your revisionist history isn't helping to prove whatever point you're attempting to make.

You're arguing through some convoluted logic that if Hong Kong gets what it was promised in 1997, that it effectively makes them a symbol of "Western Imperialism", are you not? Because Hong Kong as an entity separate from China wouldn't exist without "Western Imperialism". And I'm telling you a China and Hong Kong separate from Taiwan's government wouldn't exist if the USSR hadn't aided the CPC. I'm not arguing your argument isn't crazy, revisionist history, I'm just extending it to show have much of a nonsensical rabbit hole it really is.

This has as much to do with the West as Tiananmen Square did.

[E-Balla]

To me, the ideal end goal is to create a system similar to US state. HKers can elected their own CE, just like how each US states elect their own government. China can control the foreign policy and military.

Basically Hong Kong gets all the benefits of being China and China doesn't gain control of HK?

You ask what is the end game, that is the ideal end game. What is wrong with a good goal?

CA is still getting all the benefits of being a US state, but CA is also giving back a lot to the US. Isn't that how things should work?

But as it currently is HK isn't giving back like China wants. A ton of HK's wealth is headed outside of China, more than China wants I'm willing to bet. HK and the mainland are very much separate despite both being China.

Plus the protests aren't over separatism. A lot of people want them to be but I haven't seen much evidence that's the issue.

[E-Balla]

I never said this but ok. The freedom to choose your master's isn't freedom at all.

Anarchist are we? But yes, when you called your desire for Taiwan to have freedom as a weakness of a personal social construct, you are discounting the need for some people to have it.

I'm not an anarchist at all and the question of whether or not I'm free doesn't come down to the illusion of whether I can vote or not. My grandparents fell for that ****, I can look at that and learn from their mistakes.

[E-Balla]

"No one thinks this is part of a vast conspiracy. Also, this is part of a vast conspiracy"

The USSR installed CPC government trying to put down a protest by the citizens of Hong Kong, a territory the UK handed over peacefully a long time ago, has nothing to do with the West. Russia has more of a hand in the current protests, because if the KMT wasn't overthrown, there wouldn't be any protests. So at least be honest about your conspiracies, this is the Eastern Imperialists (Russias) fault.

Bro you sound crazy and your revisionist history isn't helping to prove whatever point you're attempting to make.

You're arguing through some convoluted logic that if Hong Kong gets what it was promised in 1997, that it effectively makes them a symbol of "Western Imperialism", are you not? Because Hong Kong as an entity separate from China wouldn't exist without "Western Imperialism". And I'm telling you a China and Hong Kong separate from Taiwan's government wouldn't exist if the USSR hadn't aided the CPC. I'm not arguing your argument isn't crazy, revisionist history, I'm just extending it to show have much of a nonsensical rabbit hole it really is.

This has as much to do with the West as Tiananmen Square did.

Here's your confusion, you think Hong Kong's deal made in the 80s that went into effect in 97 was done out the kindness of the Margaret Thatcher's heart. I'm not that naive.

If the biggest corporations ran in HK are generating wealth that's mostly not going to Chinese citizens who's profiting? Why shouldn't China be able to go and collect what's there's?

[Rustyman]

Colonialism has had its ugly scars to be sure - greater personal freedoms is not one of them.

Do you understand what you just posted??? I have been on these boards for many years. I can say without doubt that this is the most idiotic statement I have ever read on Real GM.

[TheNewEra]

Should the lakers and Nets even play over there tomorrow night? Feel like safety concerns should be a priority with how hostile government officials are acting

[jcuuofd]

The Chinese government can rot in hell. The US should never sacrifice free speech to appease these communist thugs. I have great respect for the Chinese people who are captives in their own country, but the NBA needs to realize that they are in bed with a mafia state and they should start looking to grow their fanbase in other countries like India who can handle mild criticism.

[Blazers-1977]

In the short run, this drastic action by China pretty much has sent the message to all global US companies that is doing business in China. That is, if anyone speaks ill of China, we will have zero problem cutting ties with you. I suspect that pretty much every American who has a high profile position in the US will avoid talking about China/Hong Kong on twitter or any other platform.

Thats why the media should ask them that question when interviewing them, and force their hand. China is very reliant on US business too , and far more than the US is reliant on China so they can force China to cave

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

I have to say, I really do not like the pressure fans are putting on players/coaches/individuals right now to be "woke". The NBA's company line should have always been that they support freedom of expression. Took some time to get there, but that is the official statement from Silver. I'm happy with it.

Now, I see a lot of people being frustrated with players/coaches for non answers. It's OK to not have an opinion on something. The reality is that most people in America were not invested in this political situation because it does not effect their daily lives. That goes for the players and coaches being asked about this and also the people crying for them to be woke all of a sudden.

What's even worse is that to some this has diminished the actual social progress individuals have made. If you stand up for something, especially something that effects the daily lives of yourself and your community, it does not mean immediately have to have an opinion on everything ever. People seem to be more upset about how "woke" everyone is than the actual people of Hong Kong.

Exactly this. You even have US Senators coming out and criticizing the NBA instead of sticking up for American values simply to score political points because they don't like how active American citizens have been in US politics as if NBA players and personnel can't comment on politics in the (free?) country they live in unless they stand up to a powerful, foreign government they have no control over.

[TinmanZBoy]

Linsanity 2.0 will save all the issues.... please bring back Lin... Jeremy please come back to save NBA...

[JeepCSC]

Now E-balla is downplaying the right to vote, and discussing the long game of a British Empire that doesn’t exist. As if Boris, who can’t manage London, is the mastermind behind keeping Hong Kong “Europeanized”. Are we in parody territory?

This had been in play before Boris could spell Hong Kong. The man who wrote 99 years explicitly said the UK had no intention of ever giving up Hong Kong and as long as their businesses stay in HK and stay recording profits that benefit the UK they haven't given it up.

You'd have to be naive to believe a European power willingly gave up that much wealth for moral reasons.

We aren’t in the 19th-century, the Opium Wars are dead and buried, and Hong Kong is not under Europe’s thumb. There isn’t even a threat of that.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Bro you sound crazy and your revisionist history isn't helping to prove whatever point you're attempting to make.

You're arguing through some convoluted logic that if Hong Kong gets what it was promised in 1997, that it effectively makes them a symbol of "Western Imperialism", are you not? Because Hong Kong as an entity separate from China wouldn't exist without "Western Imperialism". And I'm telling you a China and Hong Kong separate from Taiwan's government wouldn't exist if the USSR hadn't aided the CPC. I'm not arguing your argument isn't crazy, revisionist history, I'm just extending it to show have much of a nonsensical rabbit hole it really is.

This has as much to do with the West as Tiananmen Square did.

Here's your confusion, you think Hong Kong's deal made in the 80s that went into effect in 97 was done out the kindness of the Margaret Thatcher's heart. I'm not that naive.

If the biggest corporations ran in HK are generating wealth that's mostly not going to Chinese citizens who's profiting? Why shouldn't China be able to go and collect what's there's?

China funnels financing and investments through HK. They profit tremendously from the relationship, and not just financially. China could make HK obsolete in a second if they removed all capital controls in Greater China, but SOEs would lose influence and the Party uses SOEs to extend their influence throughout the country. Instead they can control the flow of money through HK while keeping Greater China closed to outside investment.

[D.Brasco]

Now E-balla is downplaying the right to vote, and discussing the long game of a British Empire that doesn’t exist. As if Boris, who can’t manage London, is the mastermind behind keeping Hong Kong “Europeanized”. Are we in parody territory?

This had been in play before Boris could spell Hong Kong. The man who wrote 99 years explicitly said the UK had no intention of ever giving up Hong Kong and as long as their businesses stay in HK and stay recording profits that benefit the UK they haven't given it up.

You'd have to be naive to believe a European power willingly gave up that much wealth for moral reasons.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/world/asia/china-xinjiang-muslim-camps.html

Do you blame this on European colonialism as well?

[JeepCSC]

I'm not an anarchist at all and the question of whether or not I'm free doesn't come down to the illusion of whether I can vote or not. My grandparents fell for that ****, I can look at that and learn from their mistakes.

It’s an anarchist quote, so I was simply surmising there’s some roots there. But you are right voting is not synonymous with freedom. But then in your viewpoint, freedom is just a Western notion that may or may not be fit for Asians. I’m sure voting is equally malleable at that point.

[E-Balla]

I'm not an anarchist at all and the question of whether or not I'm free doesn't come down to the illusion of whether I can vote or not. My grandparents fell for that ****, I can look at that and learn from their mistakes.

It’s an anarchist quote, so I was simply surmising there’s some roots there. But you are right voting is not synonymous with freedom. But then in your viewpoint, freedom is just a Western notion that may or may not be fit for Asians. I’m sure voting is equally malleable at that point.

I never said freedom is a Western notion. Freedom as we understand it as westerners is though. The treatment of non Han Chinese is really the only major criticism I feel comfortable attacking China for. Outside of that there's too many shades of gray for me to feel comfortable butting in.

[E-Balla]

Now E-balla is downplaying the right to vote, and discussing the long game of a British Empire that doesn’t exist. As if Boris, who can’t manage London, is the mastermind behind keeping Hong Kong “Europeanized”. Are we in parody territory?

This had been in play before Boris could spell Hong Kong. The man who wrote 99 years explicitly said the UK had no intention of ever giving up Hong Kong and as long as their businesses stay in HK and stay recording profits that benefit the UK they haven't given it up.

You'd have to be naive to believe a European power willingly gave up that much wealth for moral reasons.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/world/asia/china-xinjiang-muslim-camps.html

Do you blame this on European colonialism as well?

For the 50 millionth time you'll get no defense for Xi or the genocide of Muslims from me.