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dTox wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:I think this is the first time in years I’m left shaking my head at a draft pick. I will probably never understand the logic of reaching way down for a safe pick just because of fit, and not drafting potential and talent and swinging for the fences with one of maybe 3 18 year old prospects. This team needed to swing for the fences.

Nailed it. At his best, he's going to be a great role player, which is fine for a 9th pick, but given our circumstances and lacking a true go-to player, we needed to swing for the fences. I'm also failing to see a long term fit on offence between CMB, Scottie, Jak, and Ingram, that is a spacing nightmare.

How do you know at his best he's going to be a great role player? How can we even make that assessment of a 20 year old at this point.

So bizarre.

Clutch0z24 wrote:

DG88 wrote:People are taking CMB's reaction the wrong way. He literally smiled right after his f bomb. These kids are having their dreams come true in the moment. I'm sure all of us when our dreams happen will not be thinking about nuances. It's going to be expressing your emotions of disbelief. You're going to curse lol. Either way I'm excited to have a rugged forward on the squad who can dribble, pass and has some shooting touch in the midrange. Yes, stretching his jumpshot to the 3 point line will be important, but I'm not worried about that right now. He's already stated that he's working on his mechanic and building it out. I'm excited to see him and Scottie terrorize on defense though.

Thing is ....No one will ever know what he was truely feeling....Just like you and people reading his reaction was disbelief as if you know that is a fact....Is the same thing you are getting mad at from people who read it that he looked genuinly upset....No one will know but him....And everyone has the right to interpret the way they interpret it....

Alot of people thought his reaction was upset/disappointment, Some think it was shock/disbelief....We will never know the real answer so trying to also say for sure you know his true reaction is just as bad as the people you are saying are taking his reaction the wrong way.

you could take him at his word. he spoke about it right after. i dont see any logical reason to think hes lying.

Duffman100 wrote:

OakleyDokely wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:Some posters I think find it difficult to understand when other people don’t spam the board with their opinions, because they know they would if the roles flipped lol

We got CMB, what’s the point of whining we didn’t take X Y or Z when in reality none of us know **** about prospects (and the ones who pretend to are full of ****)

Also, why would people talk about Essgenue in CMB thread?

To complain. Which to YP's point is sometimes just not people's cup of tea.

To me, I can't control this. Masai has a fantastic drafting record. Funny that I see a few of the same names that claimed Barnes was a disaster pick.

It's okay to just not know and wait to see what happens.

IDK man who knows more? Us, or the guys paid millions to do so with proven track record?

I'm on the fence.

carlosey wrote:

PhilBlackson wrote:

carlosey wrote:Not impressed by his attitude and maturity. He has to come in and prove himself, not the other way around.

What?! lol

What is this even based on?? I don’t see any issue at all with either thing and if anything I was impressed with how composed and well spoken he was. Not to mention, all he said was that he will do whatever he’s asked to do so idk where the heck you’re getting this attitude that he has to “prove himself” when he’s shown absolutely zero sense of entitlement.

Based on the fact he said **** on TV and shook his head once he got picked. His girl was not excited either so obviously they dreaded the pick on live TV as it was happening. Not even Ace Bailey did that live. The reaction was very natural and sort of tone deaf for the moment. His agent told him to change the tune right away but I think its acceptable to not be thrilled with a guy that reacts that way.

Man insecure fans like you make us look bad lol smh

Go watch it again and do so closely. The kid was SMILING FROM EAR TO EAR. Just because he said the word “f*ck” doesn’t mean anything without context…

He was shaking his head in disbelief like “damn this happening, I’m actually getting drafted”…then he’s become overcome with emotion that he just blurted out “f*ck”…like “f*ck I made it! I’m a top 10 pick”. But he’s not thinking to talk out loud everything he’s thinking, it’s just a quick response and then he’s damn near glowing lol you can see it all over his face he’s just happy af. He’s not even thinking how he may be perceived. He’s just caught up in the moment and acting without thought.

If the kid didn’t wanna be here we wouldn’t have been his first workout as we were/he could’ve easily declined the workout if he felt that strongly about not wanting to be here. That’s just common sense, many other prospects didn’t/wouldn’t work out for us as Bobby mentioned. So he could’ve very easily stopped the possibility way before it even happened. But his actions say the opposite and he even explained after it was disbelief. He was in great spirits the whole damn time but again some of you are just so insecure about players supposedly not wanting to come here that unless their doing a Scottie Barnes dance celebration and has even the slightest thing you think is “off” you’ll just run wild with.

Johnny Bball wrote:I think this is the first time in years I’m left shaking my head at a draft pick. I will probably never understand the logic of reaching way down for a safe pick just because of fit, and not drafting potential and talent and swinging for the fences with one of maybe 3 18 year old prospects. This team needed to swing for the fences.

I wanted Maluach, and admit CMB was a blind spot for me because we have Scottie and depth pieces at the 4, but don't see how this isn't a swing-for-the-fences pick. Vecenie and really most of the draft twitter nerds had him higher than consensus because of the combination of what is already elite (defense, footwork, feel/IQ, stocks) and what's holding his value down (shooting). My reaction was that it's a gamble, but one that the FO is clearly comfortable taking given the team's track record on improving shooting and the developmental focus they've re-established with Darko and his staff.

He seems far from a finished product. I've been going back and watching Folk, Game Theory, Hoops Intellect etc. on him now and am actually pretty excited about his ceiling. He did some pretty remarkable things on a bad team in the toughest conference in the NCAA, got him onto the All-SEC 2nd team (with Tre Johnson). I'm definitely warming up, especially after having just watched Jack's reaction.

MiamiSPX wrote:

rapsincr wrote:get mogbo to shoot literally a million 3 point shots this offseason..if he can be a decent 3 point shooter(which he actually showed some glimpses of) him and CMB are going to terrorize benches this year.

Barring a trade, I am not so sure Mogbo is part of the rotation. By my count, there are 10 guys ahead of him in the rotation, and that's without including the backup C that I hope and trust we are going to get, somehow.

IQ/Shead
RJ/Ochai/Dick
Ingram/Walter/Battle
Barnes/Boyles
Poeltl/Mogbo

Sure, there are better players than Mogbo, but Mogbo is gonna play simply because he is needed to. Now, if we sign a backup C he is out of the rotation.

That is 12 right there. Whoever we draft tonight will be 13. Then we need a PG and a C to fill out the roster and I actually quite like what we got.

After having slept on it, I still think this was a major mistake that is going to haunt us down the road unless there's a big trade involving either Barnes or Barrett or both.

Interesting that Fleming was not taken in the first round...he's going to be a value pick for the team that gets him.

Really not sure why we didn't go with Coward... wouldn't surprise me if he returns top 5-7 value if everything breaks right for him and with him being dealt to Memphis and playing in that Bane role, I think he could show out quick.

why do people want to believe so badly that he doesnt want to be here when he literally explained what happened right away and said hes happy(and looked very happy and slightly overwhelmed), i dont get it man. must suck to be so cynical.

rapsincr wrote:

Gavin_TDThree wrote:I like him as a prospect. Based on his interviews he seems like a great dude as well. He's going to fit the vibes of this team 100%. I don't see All-star in his future but I see a guy who's going to have a solid 10+ year career as a high-level role player.

He's going to play the 4/5 early in his career because he can't shoot yet. So does our front court rotation look like:

Barnes/CMB
Jak/JM

Zero spacing there which is tough. Unless JM or Barnes comes back with a 3 in their bag it's going to be interesting.

IQ/Shead
RB/GD
BI/JW
SB/CMB
JP/JM

Would love a better back up C option and an upgrade at the 2. But this team if healthy isn't looking horrible.

IF he develops a shot i personally think his ceiling is much higher than that

Totally! If has a Julius Randle development path from 3 ie Non-shooter that has developed a decent 3pt shot, then dam! You have yourself a really good player. That's going to be his big swing skill though, can he space the floor

MiamiSPX wrote:

Mark_83 wrote:Our first championship was built by accumulating talent even where there were redundancies and then trading from surplus to upgrade the roster.

We had JV but drafted Poeltl
We had Demar and Terrence Ross but drafted/acquired Norm
We had Lowry and Vasquez but drafted Delon and signed Fred as UDFA
We had 2-Pat but drafted Siakam

Drafting Delon allowed us to move Vasquez for picks that would become Norm and OG
Norm allowed us to trade Ross for Ibaka.
Poeltl and Demar were traded for Kawhi
Fred allowed us to move Delon with JV for Gasol

When the time is right the redundancies will be dealt with. Who knows, maybe CMB eventually makes Scottie a trade piece for a star or vice versa.

I am not sure why some people are so concerned with "fit" on a team that has won 55 games the last 2 seasons, and only has Barnes and IQ signed beyond the '26-'27 season. And if reports are true, they have no problem moving IQ. It's also June 26th and we have no idea how the team will look come opening night. As things currently stand, I think there has to be a consolidation move.

Fit doesn't mater when we are still in the talent accumulation phase, which Boddy even said last night. Fit only matters when you have players whose place is cemented on your team, which I don't even think Barnes is anymore.

I actually think he fits super well with Gradey, even if that means most of his minutes will come off the bench for the next couple seasons.

Johnny Bball wrote:I think this is the first time in years I’m left shaking my head at a draft pick. I will probably never understand the logic of reaching way down for a safe pick just because of fit, and not drafting potential and talent and swinging for the fences with one of maybe 3 18 year old prospects. This team needed to swing for the fences.

Are you sure CMB isn't a swing for the fences?

Rapsfan07 wrote:After having slept on it, I still think this was a major mistake that is going to haunt us down the road unless there's a big trade involving either Barnes or Barrett or both.

Interesting that Fleming was not taken in the first round...he's going to be a value pick for the team that gets him.

Really not sure why we didn't go with Coward... wouldn't surprise me if he returns top 5-7 value if everything breaks right for him and with him being dealt to Memphis and playing in that Bane role, I think he could show out quick.

After sleeping on it, I've flipped to CMB being Collin Mini-Barkley!

Badonkadonk wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:I think this is the first time in years I’m left shaking my head at a draft pick. I will probably never understand the logic of reaching way down for a safe pick just because of fit, and not drafting potential and talent and swinging for the fences with one of maybe 3 18 year old prospects. This team needed to swing for the fences.

I wanted Maluach, and admit CMB was a blind spot for me because we have Scottie and depth pieces at the 4, but don't see how this isn't a swing-for-the-fences pick. Vecenie and really most of the draft twitter nerds had him higher than consensus because of the combination of what is already elite (defense, footwork, feel/IQ, stocks) and what's holding his value down (shooting). My reaction was that it's a gamble, but one that the FO is clearly comfortable taking given the team's track record on improving shooting and the developmental focus they've re-established with Darko and his staff.

He seems far from a finished product. I've been going back and watching Folk, Game Theory, Hoops Intellect etc. on him now and am actually pretty excited about his ceiling. He did some pretty remarkable things on a bad team in the toughest conference in the NCAA, got him onto the All-SEC 2nd team (with Tre Johnson). I'm definitely warming up, especially after having just watched Jack's reaction.

IDK where this "safe pick" thing is coming from either.

People are talking like we drafted some 5-year senior who is 30 years old. CMB is gonna be our youngest player (sans Chomche), and is the same age as Barnes when we drafted him. Drafting an 18-year old is not necessarily a higher upside play.

Everybody in the world who followed the NBA thought the Raptors were going to draft Maluach, so put yourselves in CMB's shoes in that moment not expecting the Raptors to draft you (because Maluach is available, and for 2 months everyone in the NBA world said he's their guy and also Essengue in the last 2 days). CMB probably had in his mind his draft position started from 10th pick with Phoenix - so it was just total shock because he wasn't ready for it.

rapsincr wrote:[you could take him at his word. he spoke about it right after. i dont see any logical reason to think hes lying.

Because he just got drafted by the team....What do you want him to say...."Yeah i hated this pick, Didn't want to come here....I thought i was going to Phx" On live TV in an interview? ....I mean cmon lol....

Just like when Zach Lavine got drafted to Minni and looked upset and said "Fk me"....Everyone had the same reaction to his draft reaction as well....Zach Lavine was also asked about his reaction which he was obviously not thrilled but in the interview he talked like he was fine....

MiamiSPX wrote:

Mark_83 wrote:Our first championship was built by accumulating talent even where there were redundancies and then trading from surplus to upgrade the roster.

We had JV but drafted Poeltl
We had Demar and Terrence Ross but drafted/acquired Norm
We had Lowry and Vasquez but drafted Delon and signed Fred as UDFA
We had 2-Pat but drafted Siakam

Drafting Delon allowed us to move Vasquez for picks that would become Norm and OG
Norm allowed us to trade Ross for Ibaka.
Poeltl and Demar were traded for Kawhi
Fred allowed us to move Delon with JV for Gasol

When the time is right the redundancies will be dealt with. Who knows, maybe CMB eventually makes Scottie a trade piece for a star or vice versa.

I am not sure why some people are so concerned with "fit" on a team that has won 55 games the last 2 seasons, and only has Barnes and IQ signed beyond the '26-'27 season. And if reports are true, they have no problem moving IQ. It's also June 26th and we have no idea how the team will look come opening night. As things currently stand, I think there has to be a consolidation move.

Fit doesn't mater when we are still in the talent accumulation phase, which Boddy even said last night. Fit only matters when you have players whose place is cemented on your team, which I don't even think Barnes is anymore.

If a certain MIL superstar becomes available during the season, all of a sudden you have a potential replacement for Barnes.

Like you said, this team isn't good enough to be worried about fit. They just need as many good players as possible. If they end up having too many good players at 1 position (which is a good problem), they can make trades.

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:

dTox wrote:
Nailed it. At his best, he's going to be a great role player, which is fine for a 9th pick, but given our circumstances and lacking a true go-to player, we needed to swing for the fences. I'm also failing to see a long term fit on offence between CMB, Scottie, Jak, and Ingram, that is a spacing nightmare.

How do you know at his best he's going to be a great role player? How can we even make that assessment of a 20 year old at this point.

So bizarre.

Because he just got drafted by the team....What do you want him to say...."Yeah i hated this pick, Didn't want to come here....I thought i was going to Phx" On live TV in an interview? ....I mean cmon lol....

Just like when Zach Lavine got drafted to Minni and looked upset....Everyone had the same reaction to his draft reaction as well....Zach Lavine was also asked about his reaction which he was obviously not thrilled but in the interview he talked like he was fine....

Did you quote the wrong post?

I think outside of guys who base their draft projections out of advanced stay models CMB is not a guy you pick in our spot. The upside to drafting a defensive stopper is not there.

The offensive upside of a below-the-rim finishing, undersized big, is the main issues. It is almost impossible to find a comparable player or role type to CMB in the NBA as a result. Plays a C type of game but is too small.

Reality for him is that he will need to adjust to the size and speed of defense in the NBA and he won't score as much. He will feed off rebounds/putbacks and really be on the floor for defense. His role is a defensive stopper.

That is perfect for a team like Houston or OKC that is loaded with talent and already has a winning/contending team. They can add specialists.

Toronto's FO acts like it is already a playoff team with a move like this. Upside guys were around like Essengue, Maluach, Bryant, and Coward and we passed. Any of those players might have become star players because they are young and don't have a lot of barriers.

Now, we are in a position where if CMB doesn't progress with his shooting and/or struggles with his finishing we have a 9 PPG 7 REB bench level PF. The defense is great but I don't know if he has a ton of value in future trades.

We basically drafted a better Mogbo and this was our last chance at a high first pick. You just hope he has all-NBA level defense.

Duffman100 wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:
How do you know at his best he's going to be a great role player? How can we even make that assessment of a 20 year old at this point.

So bizarre.

Because he just got drafted by the team....What do you want him to say...."Yeah i hated this pick, Didn't want to come here....I thought i was going to Phx" On live TV in an interview? ....I mean cmon lol....

Just like when Zach Lavine got drafted to Minni and looked upset....Everyone had the same reaction to his draft reaction as well....Zach Lavine was also asked about his reaction which he was obviously not thrilled but in the interview he talked like he was fine....

Did you quote the wrong post?

My bad lemme fix it wrong post

Raptorfan2012 wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:CMB's stats and physical profile look pretty similar to Kawhi's coming out of San Diego State... just saying.

Kawhi also spent 2 years in college. Shot .205 from 3 in his first year while shot .291 from 3 in his second year.

In comparison, CMB barely shot a 3 in his first year, and shot .265 from 3 in his second year.

The history of guys like CMB developing as a shooter are almost nil. 70% free throw shooter in college and sub 30% 3pt shooter. That’s not much precedent to indicate he has shooting potential. A really good outcome would be a Siakam-like improvement and even then we saw the fit between him and Barnes was not good.

I would also add my own concern/theory: shooting has become incredibly important since around 2015-16. I really have to question non-shooters and their ability to develop far more today than I do in the past. Surely there is more emphasis on shooting development at the lower levels than there was 15 years ago. If you are a non-center who cannot shoot at all I have major questions as to why, given how important shooting has become as a skill. If you are a top level prospect with NBA aspirations why have you not learned to shoot considering you have now come up in an era where shooting is one of the key skills necessary for success. Surely someone like CMB would have more shooting reps than someone of his ilk from 15 years ago. It makes me feel like there is less room to grow in that regard because it would have been emphasized much more the it would have in the past.