2020 Off-season Discussion

[Braggins]

Even the most pro-tanking people on the forum, of which I'm one of, were just saying to tank one more year at least. No one was saying commit to being the worst team in the league for 3-4 more years. There has probably never been a more ideal season for tanking than this coming one when you consider the circumstance of the season due to covid and the strength of the upcoming draft and this team is in a position where they really need one more big hit from the draft.

[JMAC3]

I mean, you could literally sign nobody and have a better mid-to-long-term outlook.

Yep, and if you are concerned about surrounding young talent with veterans then you just overpay some solid guys on one year deals to be stopgaps without affecting your long term cap outlook.

I think there is a big difference between signing a guy who will be on the court, talking help side defense, executing end of game plays, and actually playing winning basketball with one another for 30 minutes a night vs a guy who either rides the bench of plays 13 minutes a game for 1 season.

I am sure Nick Collison was a great teammate, but I bet if you ask KD who helped him more in his career he would probably say Perkins.

Same with Trae Young, I am sure Vince Carter was a great teammate. However he will probably learn more from Galinari and Rondo this season because they will be playing crunch time minutes of meaningful basketball.

[Teal25]

This front office is just dumb. Gave the largest trade exception in history for 2 picks in the 50s. Stretched a huge expiring. The only good thing about the stretch is that it gives us 2 years of having 10% of our cap tied up so they don’t do anything even stupider.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Our core players right now are...

19 year old Ball. More than likely not going to be good for a couple seasons at least. Lots of potential though.
22 year old Monk. He may or may not be good, very inconsistent. Turning 23 in a few months.
25 year old Graham. Was good last season, but is he a 1-season wonder? Turns 26 in a few months.
26 year old Rozier. He is good, but he turns 27 in a few months. Too old to be a significant future piece.
22 year old Miles. Inconsistent, but has some potential. Not sure what his role is. Turns 23 in a few months
22 year old PJ. Probably our best prospect, at least in terms of potential to be good the soonest.

A few other younger players, the Martins and the other bigs we picked in this draft, but they are unknowns.

Ball, and maybe PJ, are the players I can feel comfortable saying we should build around. Monk and Miles are in make or break seasons. Due to their ages and impending contract status Graham and Rozier should be trade bait.

There is no way we should think we can win with this current core, unless things change significantly. Our #1 priority should be finding another top prospect to grow with Ball and PJ. Preferably a wing scorer.

I envision Ball as a "robin" because I doubt he is ever a high scoring player and PJ as the "glue" and secondary scoring option. We don't have a #1 scorer on this team.

Hayward is a "glue" player, the 3rd or 4th best player on a top team...like he was in Boston. Signing him, at this point, makes no sense. We are a team of prospects that need to figure out who is worth keeping or not.

I think you just nailed it.

[JMAC3]

Even the most pro-tanking people on the forum, of which I'm one of, were just saying to tank one more year at least. No one was saying commit to being the worst team in the league for 3-4 more years. There has probably never been a more ideal season for tanking than this coming one when you consider the circumstance of the season due to covid and the strength of the upcoming draft and this team is in a position where they really need one more big hit from the draft.

Right but just because we get a high pick this year doesn't mean we automatically are good and the tanking is over. It could still take 3 seasons before the team makes the playoffs after next years draft.

Also, we did not trade our first round pick. There is a good chance we would of finished with the 6-9th pick this year, maybe with Hayward we pick 10-15th. It is not like now that we have Hayward we don't pick until the second round. If our team makes the playoff this season it will be because our young players played well which is awesome news for the future of the franchise, we aren't making the playoffs because we have Gordon Hayward and Cody Zeller lol. Sure they help but for this team to "screw our odds of getting the number 1 pick" it would be because 2-3 of young players took a big step forward.

If you want my most honest opinion... I think the board is pro tank because in their mind they get Cade Cunningham or Jalen Green or whoever goes first or second. But what happens when you tank and you still pick 7th? But you can't tell them that because in their heart they are holding out hope or truly believe we would get the 1st pick just because we didn't sign Gordon Hayward.

[JMAC3]

Our core players right now are...

19 year old Ball. More than likely not going to be good for a couple seasons at least. Lots of potential though.
22 year old Monk. He may or may not be good, very inconsistent. Turning 23 in a few months.
25 year old Graham. Was good last season, but is he a 1-season wonder? Turns 26 in a few months.
26 year old Rozier. He is good, but he turns 27 in a few months. Too old to be a significant future piece.
22 year old Miles. Inconsistent, but has some potential. Not sure what his role is. Turns 23 in a few months
22 year old PJ. Probably our best prospect, at least in terms of potential to be good the soonest.

A few other younger players, the Martins and the other bigs we picked in this draft, but they are unknowns.

Ball, and maybe PJ, are the players I can feel comfortable saying we should build around. Monk and Miles are in make or break seasons. Due to their ages and impending contract status Graham and Rozier should be trade bait.

There is no way we should think we can win with this current core, unless things change significantly. Our #1 priority should be finding another top prospect to grow with Ball and PJ. Preferably a wing scorer.

I envision Ball as a "robin" because I doubt he is ever a high scoring player and PJ as the "glue" and secondary scoring option. We don't have a #1 scorer on this team.

Hayward is a "glue" player, the 3rd or 4th best player on a top team...like he was in Boston. Signing him, at this point, makes no sense. We are a team of prospects that need to figure out who is worth keeping or not.

I think you just nailed it.

This plan is saying we need to tank for another 2-3 years essentially. Trade Graham for a lottery protected first and trade Rozier for first round pick in the 25-30 range and an expiring and basically start over as if nobody on our team before PJ is worth keeping around.

No point in paying Monk 15 million a season this offseason if we are going to be rebuilding for the next 3 years, so we could probably trade him too. Trade Bridges for one of those Bucks picks the Pelicans got in the Holiday trade, I mean they are a few years out, but we aren't going to be good now anyways so we might as well push that asset down the pipeline a few years.

If you want to build around this years draft pick, Ball and PJ you might as well get rid of guys that were before them.

I wouldn't go this route, but I am sure there are plenty who would.

[JMAC3]

Overall it is kind of sad though. This is by far the most talented team we have had since before we started our rebuild back in 2011. We are full of young talent, we have gotten lucky in lottery, lucky with second round picks and for the most part our salary still looks better than 70% of the league.

And yet this board is really negative and act like making the playoffs would be the worst thing for us. I get we are upset about the stretch of Batum- it is a bummer. However we just landed our best free agent signing since I have really been following the team hardcore. Yes Hayward is better than no defense Al Jefferson (better two way player and at more premium position). Oh and we probably drafted the most exciting draft pick we have made with LaMelo since the Hornets came back to Charlotte- comparing to Morrison, Okafor, MKG, I don't count Kemba at 9 because that is too low and he wasn't super hyped).

Oh and it seems like we finally have a good coach and player development system going with JB. Our young players are overachieving, JB plays small ball lineups, we are buying into shooting a ton of threes, and for most part he plays the guys who should play.

[Diop]

Even the most pro-tanking people on the forum, of which I'm one of, were just saying to tank one more year at least. No one was saying commit to being the worst team in the league for 3-4 more years. There has probably never been a more ideal season for tanking than this coming one when you consider the circumstance of the season due to covid and the strength of the upcoming draft and this team is in a position where they really need one more big hit from the draft.

im trying not to think about it, going full tank for next year is definitely tempting with that Cade fellow waiting to come in.

Philly's process was ugly, but it did eventually work out into something ok. I don't think Charlotte could affort to tank like that though.

[BuzzCity]

Philly's process was ugly, but it did eventually work out into something ok. I don't think Charlotte could affort to tank like that though.

I think if we tried it the Philly way, Lavar would publicly demand we trade Melo and that wouldn’t end well for us no matter how much u think Melo isn’t influenced by his Dad.

[BeesWax]

Overall it is kind of sad though. This is by far the most talented team we have had since before we started our rebuild back in 2011. We are full of young talent, we have gotten lucky in lottery, lucky with second round picks and for the most part our salary still looks better than 70% of the league.

And yet this board is really negative and act like making the playoffs would be the worst thing for us. I get we are upset about the stretch of Batum- it is a bummer. However we just landed our best free agent signing since I have really been following the team hardcore. Yes Hayward is better than no defense Al Jefferson (better two way player and at more premium position). Oh and we probably drafted the most exciting draft pick we have made with LaMelo since the Hornets came back to Charlotte- comparing to Morrison, Okafor, MKG, I don't count Kemba at 9 because that is too low and he wasn't super hyped).

Oh and it seems like we finally have a good coach and player development system going with JB. Our young players are overachieving, JB plays small ball lineups, we are buying into shooting a ton of threes, and for most part he plays the guys who should play.

That right there tells why this board is upset. We have a player development guy so why waste $38 million on Hayward right now. Bring the young guys along and develop a team. We started off this postseason so promising. We won in the lottery and got a high pick. We didn't mess it up and just took the most talent on the board when it was our turn. Then we go into FA with cap space in a time where nobody had much. What do we do? PANIC!!!! Throw a ton of cash at a guy who isn't worth near that to our team in this stage and then tack an extra $9M a year to the first three years of the deal because even with the cap space in a limited year we overspent and couldn't recover.

[truthbtold21]

I'm confused so are we not bringing biz back?

[yosemiteben]

Overall it is kind of sad though. This is by far the most talented team we have had since before we started our rebuild back in 2011. We are full of young talent, we have gotten lucky in lottery, lucky with second round picks and for the most part our salary still looks better than 70% of the league.

And yet this board is really negative and act like making the playoffs would be the worst thing for us.

I'll be honest, I'm real done feeling like I'm getting lectured by you. I'm saying that not as a mod, just as a poster getting turned off by you. I made a long post last night and the most critical thing I said was it might not work out and how you feel about the deal depends on how you feel about the pieces we have. That was not particularly negative.

There was no need to commit $39M in space over the next three seasons to someone playing the supporting vet role, it was wasteful and a poor use of resources. If it backfires, we will be back in the same situation that we were trying to get out off. No amount of sugar coating or positivity is going to change that reality.

[Liver_Pooty]

On a good note doesn't training camp start tomorrow? I just want to watch us play. Been way too long.

[JMAC3]

I'll be honest, I'm real done feeling like I'm getting lectured by you. I'm saying that not as a mod, just as a poster getting turned off by you. I made a long post last night and the most critical thing I said was it might not work out and how you feel about the deal depends on how you feel about the pieces we have. That was not particularly negative.

There was no need to commit $39M in space over the next three seasons to someone playing the supporting vet role, it was wasteful and a poor use of resources. If it backfires, we will be back in the same situation that we were trying to get out off. No amount of sugar coating or positivity is going to change that reality.

I am not lecturing you at all bro. I have barely even replied to your messages and this message wasn't even targeted at you.

I am trying to be somewhat positive about the team while the rest of the board is being negative and ready to burn down the city.

Sorry for wanting to post some positive things we have going on with the team, I will let you live in anger and won't try to be a guy who looks for the good with the team at all.

[LofJ]

On a good note doesn't training camp start tomorrow? I just want to watch us play. Been way too long.

Amen, hopefully actual basketball will dampen the negativity surrounding this team. Maybe they can win in spite of having an impatient, shortsighted owner?

[Liver_Pooty]

On a good note doesn't training camp start tomorrow? I just want to watch us play. Been way too long.

Amen, hopefully actual basketball will dampen the negativity surrounding this team. Maybe they can win in spite of having an impatient, shortsighted owner?

I'm looking forward to the training camp battles. I dont see Miles simply rolling over dead to lose his starting spot. I think he'll battle PJ hard for the starting 4 spot (probably lose that battle, but who knows)

[LofJ]

On a good note doesn't training camp start tomorrow? I just want to watch us play. Been way too long.

Amen, hopefully actual basketball will dampen the negativity surrounding this team. Maybe they can win in spite of having an impatient, shortsighted owner?

I'm looking forward to the training camp battles. I dont see Miles simply rolling over dead to lose his starting spot. I think he'll battle PJ hard for the starting 4 spot (probably lose that battle, but who knows)

The only thing Miles does better than PJ is dunking the ball. I'm sure he'll battle hard, but unless he's made a huge leap he's going to be the first wing off the bench.

[Liver_Pooty]

Amen, hopefully actual basketball will dampen the negativity surrounding this team. Maybe they can win in spite of having an impatient, shortsighted owner?

I'm looking forward to the training camp battles. I dont see Miles simply rolling over dead to lose his starting spot. I think he'll battle PJ hard for the starting 4 spot (probably lose that battle, but who knows)

The only thing Miles does better than PJ is dunking the ball. I'm sure he'll battle hard, but unless he's made a huge leap he's going to be the first wing off the bench.

Been 9 months since we've seen them. Couple guys could make huge leaps, or show up out of shape. We shall see.

[BlackOutBuzz]

I'm confused so are we not bringing biz back?

We are, just some procedural stuff to go through first.

Read on Twitter

Biz - along with some ghosts of Hornets past - were renounced to fully open up cap space for Hayward. The roster currently sits at 10 signed players + LaMelo's cap hold + 1 incomplete roster charge.

Quick math: that puts us at $9,022,311 in space plus the $4,767,000 Room MLE (and, optionally, the $3,623,000 BAE). Plenty of room to give LaMelo his 120%, sign the 2nd rounders (Riller a two-way?), and bring back Biz.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[yosemiteben]

I'll be honest, I'm real done feeling like I'm getting lectured by you. I'm saying that not as a mod, just as a poster getting turned off by you. I made a long post last night and the most critical thing I said was it might not work out and how you feel about the deal depends on how you feel about the pieces we have. That was not particularly negative.

There was no need to commit $39M in space over the next three seasons to someone playing the supporting vet role, it was wasteful and a poor use of resources. If it backfires, we will be back in the same situation that we were trying to get out off. No amount of sugar coating or positivity is going to change that reality.

I am not lecturing you at all bro. I have barely even replied to your messages and this message wasn't even targeted at you.

I am trying to be somewhat positive about the team while the rest of the board is being negative and ready to burn down the city.

Sorry for wanting to post some positive things we have going on with the team, I will let you live in anger and won't try to be a guy who looks for the good with the team at all.

You're not just trying to be positive, you're trying to explain how the negative people are wrong and judging those less enthused about the move as sad. No one needs help to understand how to put a positive spin on this. You've posted essays trying to explain why positivity is warranted as though everyone doesn't already know the argument. It's not us vs. them, positive vs. negative, etc., people just have different perspectives and they are all valid.

It's not your own views that I'm finding annoying, it's the way you come across as talking down to those with different views.