2016 Draft

[JMac1]

I love Dunn and Ingram...... I am afraid of Brown, but i love his bully shot creating style, although not a good fit next to Booker. Dunn and Booker could be dynamic for the next 10 years, with Len.......

[No-Man]

shooting is also important within context, Dunn plays in a team with very poor shooting across the board, Valentine is playing with exceptional spacing, he is a better shooter than Dunn but he cant create his own shot at the next level and his ceiling on both sides is clearly lower.

I would compare Denzel to Jared Dudley, good rotation player, Duds a better athlete, Valentine a better passer but they are going to have a similar role.

[TeamTragic]

Arizona still expects one of Jackson or Ferguson. Terrance Ferguson isn't human...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuYFy2TpLck[/youtube]

What did I just watch? HOLY ****. Can we commit to him right now?

[bwgood77]

I haven't watched these two play much, but why is Kris Dunn rated so much higher than Denzel Valentine?

Check out their #s.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/62615/denzel-valentine

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61804/kris-dunn

Just from sheer #s, I guess it would be steal rate, considering that is supposed to be a good indicator of capable of transitioning to the nba, but everywhere else, Valentine seems to trump him.

Check out his numbers in his last game. http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400839334

Have you not seen Dunn's handles, length, and athleticism?

No, not much, as I mentioned. I did notice they have similar wingspan, but checking #s I just noticed Valentine's vastly superior shooting, and even a better overall fg% despite Dunn scoring much more from close range, and that Valentine was the better passer (at least that's what the #s say) with far fewer turnovers, and a better rebounder, so I was wondering what created the discrepancy.

I figured the only thing it really could be is defense and athleticism and a little bit difference in age...Dunn's steal rate is particularly impressive.

[bwgood77]

Not that any of these mocks matter much, but currently nbadraft.net has us taking Bender, Labissiere, and Baldwin with our 3 picks. Who would be happy with that?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

[Sunsss]

I would compare Denzel to Jared Dudley, good rotation player, Duds a better athlete, Valentine a better passer but they are going to have a similar role.

Wait, how is someone less athletic than Dudley? We used to get excited when he dunked.

[bwgood77]

shooting is also important within context, Dunn plays in a team with very poor shooting across the board, Valentine is playing with exceptional spacing, he is a better shooter than Dunn but he cant create his own shot at the next level and his ceiling on both sides is clearly lower.

I would compare Denzel to Jared Dudley, good rotation player, Duds a better athlete, Valentine a better passer but they are going to have a similar role.

Hmmm... a lot of Dudley fans around here. I guess getting a glue guy who has a long term career, and has been recently starting logging a lot of minutes would be a decent find mid to late teens or especially in the 20s.

Valentine's #s say he is a much better passer though.

[blee732]

Not that any of these mocks matter much, but currently nbadraft.net has us taking Bender, Labissiere, and Baldwin with our 3 picks. Who would be happy with that?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

Meh. Labissiere sounds like a name that'll show up on "Who He Play For" with the Chuckster. I would prefer that Sabonis is there at the Wash pick. Who knows on late 1sts, such a crapshoot.

Bender makes me nervous but I'm probably influenced by the lingering disappointment from Big Jake and Zarko.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not that any of these mocks matter much, but currently nbadraft.net has us taking Bender, Labissiere, and Baldwin with our 3 picks. Who would be happy with that?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

*Raises hand*

That would be an A+ draft. I'd lean toward keeping all three.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not that any of these mocks matter much, but currently nbadraft.net has us taking Bender, Labissiere, and Baldwin with our 3 picks. Who would be happy with that?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

Meh. Labissiere sounds like a name that'll show up on "Who He Play For" with the Chuckster. I would prefer that Sabonis is there at the Wash pick. Who knows on late 1sts, such a crapshoot.

Bender makes me nervous but I'm probably influenced by the lingering disappointment from Big Jake and Zarko.

Bender makes me nervous, too, but we do have a very good training staff, and Alex Len has set a great example for him to follow.

Labissiere has one of the highest ceilings in this draft. I wouldn't be completely shocked if he turned out to be the best player. Sabonis will have a solid career, I think. He'll be a good rebounder, and he should be pretty solid right off the bat. What's his ceiling, though? I prefer the big gamble in this case. We're in a position to take it.

Baldwin at 28 would be a steal.

[blee732]

Not that any of these mocks matter much, but currently nbadraft.net has us taking Bender, Labissiere, and Baldwin with our 3 picks. Who would be happy with that?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

Meh. Labissiere sounds like a name that'll show up on "Who He Play For" with the Chuckster. I would prefer that Sabonis is there at the Wash pick. Who knows on late 1sts, such a crapshoot.

Bender makes me nervous but I'm probably influenced by the lingering disappointment from Big Jake and Zarko.

Bender makes me nervous, too, but we do have a very good training staff, and Alex Len has set a great example for him to follow.

Labissiere has one of the highest ceilings in this draft. I wouldn't be completely shocked if he turned out to be the best player. Sabonis will have a solid career, I think. He'll be a good rebounder, and he should be pretty solid right off the bat. What's his ceiling, though? I prefer the big gamble in this case. We're in a position to take it.

Baldwin at 28 would be a steal.

Just caught a taste of some Labissiere for the first time (at least knowingly) in highlights of the LSU game. He looked ntriguing that game, but his overall body of work this year doesn't look very impressive. Commits a lot of fouls vs blocks, no idea if this is a defensive IQ issue or a good sign that he's aggressive on defense and just needs more experience.

He does seem like he has the form to extend his range out though. Sounds like you've watched him, does it look like he has stretch 4 potential?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

shooting is also important within context, Dunn plays in a team with very poor shooting across the board, Valentine is playing with exceptional spacing, he is a better shooter than Dunn but he cant create his own shot at the next level and his ceiling on both sides is clearly lower.

I would compare Denzel to Jared Dudley, good rotation player, Duds a better athlete, Valentine a better passer but they are going to have a similar role.

Hmmm... a lot of Dudley fans around here. I guess getting a glue guy who has a long term career, and has been recently starting logging a lot of minutes would be a decent find mid to late teens or especially in the 20s.

Valentine's #s say he is a much better passer though.

I've come around to Denzel. I think he'd be my pick at 12 if the draft were today. So I guess that means I can't give that mock you posted back there an A+, more like an A[?]. Passing is important, and we could use more of it.

Just caught a taste of some Labissiere for the first time (at least knowingly) in highlights of the LSU game. He looked ntriguing that game, but his overall body of work this year doesn't look very impressive. Commits a lot of fouls vs blocks, no idea if this is a defensive IQ issue or a good sign that he's aggressive on defense and just needs more experience.

He does seem like he has the form to extend his range out though. Sounds like you've watched him, does it look like he has stretch 4 potential?

For sure. The question is whether he has it upstairs - if he does, the body will come along. Fewer questions with Bender on that front. I'd like to think we'd select the best player from the group of Rabb/Labissiere/Bender, whether that's at #5 or #13. I suspect it'll be Bender, unless we're in the top 2.

[gaspar]

Assume you guys are looking at Bender. Suns have same weakness at PF, and are not willing to replace Bledsoe for Dunn.

So I don't think we'd be willing to do that trade unless we can ship Bledsoe along for nice young pieces so we make room for Dunn.

Brown is not an option at #3 or #4, imo

Totally understandable, I wasn't sure of the state of your roster so to hear you are having the same issue it would make sense to pick Bender!

Unless you think it might be likely you ship Bledsoe out, or do you think the FO wouldn't dare try to trade Bledsoe now?

You can have Bender. A pick and swap spots. I'd prefer a younger version of Bledsoe but better protector of the ball and injury free and cheaper player like Dunn.

Huh? Turnovers and injury history are Dunn's biggest weaknesses.

[AtheJ415]

I'm pretty sure before the college season started he was 1 or 2 along with Noel and they switched back and forth...and Shabazz dropped as the season went on.

A good way to tell is to look at our draft thread from that year and see how long into the season people were penciling in Shabazz in our future lineup. I clearly remember people were all over him that year for a long time. Definitely most of the college season until LaVine started to outhype him as the season went on, despite not starting. I think part of the reason Shabazz dropped quite a bit is because people found out he (or maybe his dad) lied about his age at some point, or played against kids a year younger for years in hs or something like that.

Right, but that's kind of the point. Brown has played well enough to show his potential warrnts being selected top 5 by most projections. Shabazz dropped quickly. I get the common feeling that both may be overhyped, but I don't see any similarities beyond that. Honestly, aside from maybe Dunn I think Brown is the clearest cut 2 way player in this draft. He will defend, and he at worst would be an offensive slasher or fast break threat.

That said, the top 4 ought to be pretty clearly Simmons, Ingram, Dunn, Bender. I think there's a drop off from there to Brown.

Well lets see. You saying he played well enough, when he actually had very similar across the board numbers as Shabazz, except for two key places, 3 pt shooting, which is a desired trait in the league today, and turnovers, doesn't bode well. He is better getting to the rim (not as important, particlarly when a 64% ft shooter), and a better defender. Some key traits which indicate good translation, such as steals, neither impressed much.

If he can learn to shoot, he might be ok at some point, but that's not a skill you want to be missing from your arsenal these days.

A defender who has shown he can defend and has a still developing offensive game bodes well/better than a supposedly dominant offensive scorer who struggles to do that efficiently at college. If anything, their offensive numbers being similar is better for Brown. Plenty of guys in Brown's mold have done well in the league. I don't think Shabazz is a good comparison AT ALL for how they actually play, or for their actual abilities and mindsets. One is a defender, the other is an offensive player, it's just that the defender happens to put up similar numbers. Jimmy Butler, for instance, was a defending SF who had similar athleticism and no offensive game, but when he hit his ceiling he was much better. Guys improve defensively all the time, and I find it somewhat hilarious that you think he might be okay if he learns to shoot when guys like Tucker still can't shoot and can barely dribble but you've defended him plenty.

[AtheJ415]

Totally understandable, I wasn't sure of the state of your roster so to hear you are having the same issue it would make sense to pick Bender!

Unless you think it might be likely you ship Bledsoe out, or do you think the FO wouldn't dare try to trade Bledsoe now?

You can have Bender. A pick and swap spots. I'd prefer a younger version of Bledsoe but better protector of the ball and injury free and cheaper player like Dunn.

Huh? Turnovers and injury history are Dunn's biggest weaknesses.

I love Dunn. I think he'll be an all star, but in my opinion we should take Bender at the 3 spot. Odds are we're not trading both Bledsoe and Knight, so Dunn would be a backup here for a few years at least. We have a glaring hole at the 4, and Bender, while he has a lower floor than Dunn, has as high a ceiling if not higher. From a skill perspective, Bender does everything we'd want from a 4. He's long, incredibly fast, defends very, very well (and something that is imo a difference maker in comparing him to other PFs in this draft), and has shown the ability to pass from the perimeter and post. His shot has improved over the past year.

I mean, really the only negatives to Bender are sample size and strength (he weighs 215 so needs to add some significant weight to be a big in the league). I know people are worried when it comes to Euro bigs, but his skillset and upside are ideal for us.

That said, I'm all for trading one of our PGs and a pick if needed to jump back in and get Dunn with another pick. I'm surprised so many want him though given he takes difficult shots and turns it over. Everyone hates our current PGs regardless of production for basically those 2 reasons. Dunn probably is a better playmaker overall than our current guys, though I think Bledsoe is severely underrated by the board in that aspect, since he is elite at setting up 3 point shooters (like top 3 in all of basketball IIRC).

[bwgood77]

Wow, Washington is killing Stanford. My boy Marquees Chriss playing well. 11/5 at the half with 2 3's.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400870229

NC State hanging tough with Duke as well. Brandon Ingram already with 22 pts including 5 3s midway through second half.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400870658

[saintEscaton]

But Mullholand will still continue to say that Ingram does't deserve to go second overall, just the beneficiary of a weak class whereas Simmons would go #1 any year because he's a "transcendent" talent

[bwgood77]

But Mullholand will still continue to say that Ingram does't deserve to go second overall, just the benefeciary of a weak class whereas Simmons would go #1 any year because he's a "transcendent" talent

Who does he say should go #2?

[Amareca]

Bender will be a bust.

Labissiere will go top 5 when all is said and done. Getting him with Washingtons pick is a pipe dream.

In fact unless Skal disappears again I'd see him as our likely pick if we end up 3 or lower.

With Washingtons pick I like Rabb, Chriss or Valentine.

And with Clevelands pick Zubac, Zizic, Zimmermann, Sabonis...

With our 2nd rounder Felder or Payton.

[Bogyo]

Wow, Skal is really all over the draft boards / expectations. Dunno if I would be comfortable with taking him at 3/4/5 with Bender/Dunn/Brown still there as I see him a swing for the fences pick which has a good chance of being a miss.