Political Roundtable Part XXII

[dckingsfan]

Oh wait, the second picture was Los Angeles...

[montestewart]

^ that was pulled from a climate denier's book:

http://energy.agwired.com/2011/03/30/book-review-climate-of-corruption/

wherein the author stands by the same denier's axiom: "the earth's getting warmer but it's inconclusive whether it's manmade or not" conclusion.

but all this talk from Ghost and SD is arguing for arguing's sake. even if the Earth isn't warming, reducing emissions is still a good thing. it's not like smokestacks and tailpipes only emit odorless, colorless CO2. they emit SMOKE. particulates. stuff that makes people cough. we've lived through it, we've bettered it, and now we want to pretend that it was never that bad?

then being distrustful of this ONE issue, leads to aligning one's environmental agenda with Trump, where it goes beyond global warming. he's deregulating waste disposal, mining and drilling rights on protected land, lead paint and asbestos bans, and all manner of other acts of evil.

who's the one that's being duped?

we live in a government dependent on agency and representation. that means we rely on other people to act on our behalf. don't cut off your nose to spite your face because you're too stupid to realize what's going on.

When I was younger, I had a London Fog coat. I asked my father to tell me the story of London Fog. He said, "Monte, once upon a time, London was always covered by a beautiful fog. It helped Sherlock Holmes remain hidden when pursuing a suspect. It made walks by the Thames more dramatic, and more intimate. It gave Whistler some beautiful subject matter. But them came the climate change hoax, fear, distortions, hysteria, and lies. Dr. Isaac Anoclastic, award winning PhD from Haverford, says the opposite, and I believe him. And now you can't see London Fog, except in an old movie about Jack the Ripper. All you have is that London Fog coat. And you won't even need that in a few years. I'm sorry son." He kept talking, but I got bored and went to watch some TV.

[GhostofChenier]

:rofl: Oh wait, the second picture was Los Angeles...

I respect your approach here at most times. You are now acting as different person. I make reasonable point, provide un documents.

You just ignore and blindly believe UN funded science (profit by centrist bank)? Why does Clinton and Goldman Sachs “dream of world without border”?

https://www.goldmansachs.com/citizenship/environmental-stewardship/market-opportunities/market-making-in-environmental-commodities/

You will realize in this life u were on wrong side and not as intelligent as thought. This is not first attempt, sulfur cap trade was first proposed and implemented by UN. Trillions made, Enron the top trader.

Politician and banks became wealthy from scam sulfur cap trading. All science agrees until they did not and their science grants disappear and god power sulfur commissions disappear. Then it all collapsed and just new wealth created. Acid rain was use to build this fake market scam.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/02/11/remember-the-acid-rain-scare-global-warming-hysteria-is-pouring-down/#2b2cce3a53fc

Truly you see no similar scenario?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/177314-head-of-californias-cap-and-trade-offsets-program-its-a-scam

Acid rain was quick to disprove and collapse with 10 year prediction. New “global warm” “climate change” prediction date is after all of us are dead. Not just convenient. Ensures funding, growth and fraud as law.

[GhostofChenier]

Quote from Bloomberg article in 2012. Why does Soros spend so much to scare new millennial generation for climate change? Profit. He says before well known.

Trillions in profits created from true air, but this is all legitimates? Those who believe this are fools.

——-

Even George Soros, the billionaire hedge fund operator, says money managers would find ways to manipulate cap-and-trade markets. “The system can be gamed,” Soros, 79, remarked at a London School of Economics seminar in July. “That’s why financial types like me like it — because there are financial opportunities”…

Hedge fund manager Michael Masters, founder of Masters Capital Management LLC, based in St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands [and unrelated to Blythe Masters] says speculators will end up controlling U.S. carbon prices, and their participation could trigger the same type of boom-and-bust cycles that have buffeted other commodities…

The hedge fund manager says that banks will attempt to inflate the carbon market by recruiting investors from hedge funds and pension funds.

“Wall Street is going to sell it as an investment product to people that have nothing to do with carbon,” he says. “Then suddenly investment managers are dominating the asset class, and nothing is related to actual supply and demand. We have seen this movie before.”

——-

First attempt:
Acid rain - very Specific
UN target date: 10-12 year funded study for scientist
Most nations other than us and Western Europe declined.
Goldman and other invest bank sell sulfur products but they collapse when un backing disappear

Second attempt:
Climate change - not specific
UN Target date: 100 years funded
All nations participate or lose acces to credit. Also poor nation must take environment loan from un bank for almost 75 year of debt interest.
Goldman selling dozens of carbon products no risk of collapse

[pancakes3]

i agree that there are problems with cap and trade, and intermediary brokers do profit from a flawed system, but that doesn't invalidate the science behind carbon emissions, or sulfur emissions.

acid rain wasn't, and isn't a hoax. it was curbed, largely due to environmental controls implemented in the '90s. the forbes link was authored by Larry Bell - the same conspiracy theorist that was quoted in the last page who wrote the global warming hoax book.

again, the argument against acid rain misses the bigger picture argument. the overall argument is that "Acid rain is bad." Bell, in his Forbes article, disavows the ecological effects of acid rain disguises it on the basis that there is no conclusive proof that it affects trees. he even cites to a plant pathologist that ironically states: “if you're environmentally oriented, you going to find things to be concerned about; if you're one who finds no reason to get excited, you'll find much to support that too.”

however, the problem is that the argument against acid rain is not confined to just its effect on trees. acid rain has demonstrable effects on fauna, including fish and people, as well as buildings, and other manmade structures. bell makes no mention of this, and that makes him a disingenuous hack.

similarly, GhostofChenier, you have problems with cap and trade, and the hypocrisy of developed nations such as Western Europe and the U.S. profiting from being able to develop without environmental regulations, but currently developing nations such as Belarus having their growth stifled by environmental regulations. that's fair. however, that does not invalidate the science that particulates in the atmosphere - such as CO2, sulfur, CFC, etc. are bad.

argue against the politics, not the science.

[dckingsfan]

i agree that there are problems with cap and trade, and intermediary brokers do profit from a flawed system, but that doesn't invalidate the science behind carbon emissions, or sulfur emissions.

acid rain wasn't, and isn't a hoax. it was curbed, largely due to environmental controls implemented in the '90s. the forbes link was authored by Larry Bell - the same conspiracy theorist that was quoted in the last page who wrote the global warming hoax book.

again, the argument against acid rain misses the bigger picture argument. the overall argument is that "Acid rain is bad." Bell, in his Forbes article, disavows the ecological effects of acid rain disguises it on the basis that there is no conclusive proof that it affects trees. he even cites to a plant pathologist that ironically states: “if you're environmentally oriented, you going to find things to be concerned about; if you're one who finds no reason to get excited, you'll find much to support that too.”

however, the problem is that the argument against acid rain is not confined to just its effect on trees. acid rain has demonstrable effects on fauna, including fish and people, as well as buildings, and other manmade structures. bell makes no mention of this, and that makes him a disingenuous hack.

similarly, GhostofChenier, you have problems with cap and trade, and the hypocrisy of developed nations such as Western Europe and the U.S. profiting from being able to develop without environmental regulations, but currently developing nations such as Belarus having their growth stifled by environmental regulations. that's fair. however, that does not invalidate the science that particulates in the atmosphere - such as CO2, sulfur, CFC, etc. are bad.

argue against the politics, not the science.

Scientists they are not...

[GhostofChenier]

My argument and of Belarus is carbon cannot be stopped to any standard or measure against history. Only 40-50 years of data is ready

I do argue the science, as cap trade un agreements have stolen national environment panels of free thinking. Belarusian environment panel now is dependent on Un for funding, not Belarus. This is same for all small nations.

This is how they say it is “accepted science”. Belarus must provide climate change report to fit guideline every year. I do not argue climate change, I argue reason for importance when variables & algorithm spell doom from 40-50 year of back data. Climate is changing but climate variables are now possible commodity for all banks.

Anyone who has in finance course knows backtested data is only relevant if enougt data supplied. For hedge fund, 5-10 year for 130 year old djia (for a one year model). For the fate of our earth 50 year of massage data for 4.5 billion year old planet is sufficient for such conclusion? Sufficient to destroy 3rd world economies and take their borders and science by debt requirement?

Would you invest in a fund with this level of data? Why are all major banks doing this? Carbon commodity trade. Trillions and trillions of dollars from nothing but air. What molecule is next? What doom future predictions need for this?

Moisture farming is science fiction but I predict reality, as global warming/sulfur etc allows for declaration of all natural water and filters to be cancer causing or other disease.

Hydrogen cap trade? Funny yes?

No.....already in works. Argument is ammonia and nitrate killing us all, cause massive health costs. Solution? Coca Cola moisture farms (or highest bidder) and endless component suppliers. New finance indexes, more money for banks. This time not from air but air+hydrogen.

http://12.000.scripts.mit.edu/mission2017/solutions/economic-solutions/cap-and-trade-2/

https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/an-eu-cap-and-trade-scheme-for-water-pollution-greens-say-no/

[pancakes3]

I do argue the science, as cap trade un agreements have stolen national environment panels of free thinking. Belarusian environment panel now is dependent on Un for funding, not Belarus. This is same for all small nations.

and what of studies that are not funded by the UN? would you only trust data that comes from Belarus?

i'm just not understanding your argument, or what you're complaining about. there is data supporting global warming that is not UN funded, and i'm not familiar with whatever grants/subsidies you're referring to with respect to the UN.

seems to me if Belarus doesn't want the money, then don't take the money. pull out of the Paris Accords, etc. and emit as much as you want. it's a free market and you have sovereignty to do whatever you want. of course, there are consequences to doing that, but that's just how the world works.

if i'm wrong, please illuminate. and i understand that english is not your first language but i'm genuinely confused by your posts.

edit: seems that you're against the cap and trade system - yes I agree with that. but that just means the system in place needs to change, not that the entire crisis is manufactured just so we can have a cap and trade system.

[dckingsfan]

Some don't remember the acid rain that fell on the east coast or the debilitating smog that engulfed Los Angeles. Nor do they remember the legislation that cured/made better the lives of both groups.

Maybe too young or not from here. But this administrations' view is that we should go back to the 1940s. And that along with the other stupidity within the administration will cost them the mid-terms.

And like the administration, the supporters of those propositions have incoherent arguments.

[GhostofChenier]

Some don't remember the acid rain that fell on the east coast or the debilitating smog that engulfed Los Angeles. Nor do they remember the legislation that cured/made better the lives of both groups.

Maybe too young or not from here. But this administrations' view is that we should go back to the 1940s. And that along with the other stupidity within the administration will cost them the mid-terms.

And like the administration, the supporters of those propositions have incoherent arguments.

I do not argue the existence of problem but the level of severity/fear is crucial to reach the possible of trading as commodity.

Then this same fear used to force small nations to comply or world bank and un don’t provide loans.

Then same fear used to shape a generation which believes the problem as undeniable fact. I do question this.

These was Stalin like tactics. Fear for profit with government science research firm in grasp and politicized.

[stilldropin20]

:rofl: Oh wait, the second picture was Los Angeles...

I respect your approach here at most times. You are now acting as different person. I make reasonable point, provide un documents.

You just ignore and blindly believe UN funded science (profit by centrist bank)? Why does Clinton and Goldman Sachs “dream of world without border”?

https://www.goldmansachs.com/citizenship/environmental-stewardship/market-opportunities/market-making-in-environmental-commodities/

You will realize in this life u were on wrong side and not as intelligent as thought. This is not first attempt, sulfur cap trade was first proposed and implemented by UN. Trillions made, Enron the top trader.

Politician and banks became wealthy from scam sulfur cap trading. All science agrees until they did not and their science grants disappear and god power sulfur commissions disappear. Then it all collapsed and just new wealth created. Acid rain was use to build this fake market scam.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/02/11/remember-the-acid-rain-scare-global-warming-hysteria-is-pouring-down/#2b2cce3a53fc

Truly you see no similar scenario?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/177314-head-of-californias-cap-and-trade-offsets-program-its-a-scam

Acid rain was quick to disprove and collapse with 10 year prediction. New “global warm” “climate change” prediction date is after all of us are dead. Not just convenient. Ensures funding, growth and fraud as law.

yeah, i used to have a lot more respect for DCkings and a few other posters. But as it turns out GoC who came in with comic relief and political satire is actually one of the more level headed and intelligent posters.

Thank you for your contributions GoC. GoC is entering Nate33 level respect. In honor of hands11 (or was it Donkymcdonky?) Dont recall but Either way, "i take my hands of to you, sir!"


DCkings, PIF, Monste, and pancakes got some work to do on their logic, reasoning, and execution of their position. Monste just doing straight comedy. But at least they are not CNN level biased like Wizpride, clogs, n jwiz who need to open their minds up (quite) a bit.

GTN and pointgod are just democratic/socialist shills. Here to make noise. No reason. No logic. No comedy. Entertainment level is all time low. They attack new posters relentlessly in attempt to frustrate them into not posting. ban worthy.

You guys may or may not like my style because i dont have the patience to always provide links and teach you guys certain truths that you have yet to come to understand or reveal. but i'm so far out in front of nearly all of you that i understand your position better than you understand it. Thats why i can punch holes in it that frustrate you and thats why when you think you have countered me and I dont respond all the time. Your counter lacks proper reasoning and logic so i often dont waste my time.

and to add insult to injury, i got a couple sophomores in here who think they have discovered all the cures to all the world's ills. They think I'm reading at a 4th grade level when it fact i'm so far out in front of them when i present the (8th grade )ideas and logic and reasoning to see where they are at...to see where their logic and reasoning comes in...they got nothing. They refute nothing. They can't punch holes in 8th grade level understanding. Ive tried to show you the way...ive tried to lead you to the water...but i cant make ya drink it.

here's the deal folks. Big Global money is behind all of the "global warming" now called climate change issue.

Why??? (not why do we care) But why is big global money behind the studies? Funding the research?? Holding back fundds to various communities if they do (or do not) support various forms of logic, reasoning, and results of "the findings."

^^^Why?

Here's a hint: same hint i gave you before on many other issues: Follow the fluncking money! After you follow it, please come back and tell when the weather (yes, i do mean mother flunking nature) became so evil ...When?? Then go look to see who bought and started up and still owns today the multiple weather channels? here's another hint: (shhhh dont tell monte) but its "the bankers." Yep!! The bankers bought the weather channels and to this day still own them. They also own the most sophisticated weather tracking devices on the planet. So in essence they control the narrative as to how the weather is portrayed. And they feed the rest of the news sources information about the weather. Think about that.

Now watch these videos:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Also, there's not a scientists alive (a so-called climate denier) on the planet that doesn't say:
1. keep the soil clean.
2. keep the water clean.
3. keep the air clean.

Especially when it comes to non-biodegradables. Or really anything with half lives over 25 years, really. No one wants that. NO ONE!! We all want fairness and equality right? That has to start with fresh water, air, and soil? Right?

So let's have a real conversation. Let's follow th emoney. Follow the regulations and how that ties to globalization of manufacturing. Follow the real polluters of the world(china and india). And keep your Fear mongering to a minimum? let's have that conversation? No? Just stick to the lies and fear mongering so manufacturing gets regulated out of the united states??? Got it!! and i dont believe you!!

[gtn130]

bahahahaha so in SD20 fantasy land (((the bankers))) bought up all the weather channels and invented global warming for *reasons*

Ok!

[dckingsfan]

And speaking of unsustainable policies...

The federal debt held by the public stood at nearly $15.5 trillion at the last count on July 9th, up 1 trillion since this administration took over — hey, a trillion here and a trillion there - pretty soon it is real money.

7.5 percent increase under this administration. And that figure will accelerate unless (this administration and Congress) impose massive spending cuts, or reverse course and increase taxes - not likely on either account. Ds will take over the house and the Rs are unlikely to back track on their failed policy.

CBO projected debt will reach 152 percent of the nation’s total annual economic output by 2048 — up from 78 percent currently. Nice.

[GhostofChenier]

And speaking of unsustainable policies...

The federal debt held by the public stood at nearly $15.5 trillion at the last count on July 9th, up 1 trillion since this administration took over — hey, a trillion here and a trillion there - pretty soon it is real money.

7.5 percent increase under this administration. And that figure will accelerate unless (this administration and Congress) impose massive spending cuts, or reverse course and increase taxes - not likely on either account. Ds will take over the house and the Rs are unlikely to back track on their failed policy.

CBO projected debt will reach 152 percent of the nation’s total annual economic output by 2048 — up from 78 percent currently. Nice.

An arrogant person considers himself perfect. This is the chief harm of arrogance. It interferes with a person's main task in life - becoming a better person.

Leo Tolstoy

I am not right in all I say, I am not this fool. But I am not foolish to trust “government weather fund science”, which means fund by commodity traders. I have many flaw, I need more focus on fact and family. But I am confident in my view in the right in cap trade evil.

But to get there question must be ask. Why does Clinton do the speeches at Goldman Sachs? Why Gore? Why for millions? Gs They traded sulfur first, carbon first, and now in soon future water.

They need UN and by finance market, UN in NY US is very corrupt in this. Global warming too broad easy to change to what is need, and ensure carbon trade long after we die. China Russia are not stupid enough to play along, they want BRIC

You all cry about trump as your children are being brainwash. In no way is this settle accept scienc only if u don’t question why science is now controlled by debt and research grant come from that debt.

[dckingsfan]

Getting closer...

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/house/

[pancakes3]

And speaking of unsustainable policies...

The federal debt held by the public stood at nearly $15.5 trillion at the last count on July 9th, up 1 trillion since this administration took over — hey, a trillion here and a trillion there - pretty soon it is real money.

7.5 percent increase under this administration. And that figure will accelerate unless (this administration and Congress) impose massive spending cuts, or reverse course and increase taxes - not likely on either account. Ds will take over the house and the Rs are unlikely to back track on their failed policy.

CBO projected debt will reach 152 percent of the nation’s total annual economic output by 2048 — up from 78 percent currently. Nice.

An arrogant person considers himself perfect. This is the chief harm of arrogance. It interferes with a person's main task in life - becoming a better person.

Leo Tolstoy

I am not right in all I say, I am not this fool. But I am not foolish to trust “government weather fund science”, which means fund by commodity traders. I have many flaw, I need more focus on fact and family. But I am confident in my view in the right in cap trade evil.

But to get there question must be ask. Why does Clinton do the speeches at Goldman Sachs? Why Gore? Why for millions? Gs They traded sulfur first, carbon first, and now in soon future water.

They need UN and by finance market, UN in NY US is very corrupt in this. Global warming too broad easy to change to what is need, and ensure carbon trade long after we die. China Russia are not stupid enough to play along, they want BRIC

You all cry about trump as your children are being brainwash. In no way is this settle accept scienc only if u don’t question why science is now controlled by debt and research grant come from that debt.

China is taking environmentalism very seriously and just implemented cap and trade.

Curbing emissions is not a US/EU-led conspiracy. It's a well-established goal implemented by the majority of the scientific community and adopted by every single major government (momentary lapse by the US under Trump notwithstanding).

I understand your criticisms of cap and trade but your assumption that global warming was invented as an excuse to implement cap and trade is the opposite of the actual causation. Why would "bankers" fund studies, spread fear, just to implement cap and trade, so they can trade? There already existed a commodities and derivative market for energy production, without caps or regulation, and traders were perfectly happy to profit in that market (see, Enron).

If anything, economic incentives would prefer there *not* be any regulations in place, and just profit off traditional energy production. However, with environmental regulations in place, "bankers" will still try to make money and they're utilizing cap and trade markets as a way to still profit despite regulations in place.

You can tell by the very fact that there is a CAP in the trading. If you're fearful of water scarcity leading to water cap and trade, could you imagine if cap and trade was not in place, and there was actual water scarcity? Wouldn't commodity traders profit even more in the absence of cap and trade, where they can just monopolize water sources?

[Pointgod]

And speaking of unsustainable policies...

The federal debt held by the public stood at nearly $15.5 trillion at the last count on July 9th, up 1 trillion since this administration took over — hey, a trillion here and a trillion there - pretty soon it is real money.

7.5 percent increase under this administration. And that figure will accelerate unless (this administration and Congress) impose massive spending cuts, or reverse course and increase taxes - not likely on either account. Ds will take over the house and the Rs are unlikely to back track on their failed policy.

CBO projected debt will reach 152 percent of the nation’s total annual economic output by 2048 — up from 78 percent currently. Nice.

An arrogant person considers himself perfect. This is the chief harm of arrogance. It interferes with a person's main task in life - becoming a better person.

Leo Tolstoy

I am not right in all I say, I am not this fool. But I am not foolish to trust “government weather fund science”, which means fund by commodity traders. I have many flaw, I need more focus on fact and family. But I am confident in my view in the right in cap trade evil.

But to get there question must be ask. Why does Clinton do the speeches at Goldman Sachs? Why Gore? Why for millions? Gs They traded sulfur first, carbon first, and now in soton future water.

They need UN and by finance market, UN in NY US is very corrupt in this. Global warming too broad easy to change to what is need, and ensure carbon trade long after we die. China Russia are not stupid enough to play along, they want BRIC

You all cry about trump as your children are being brainwash. In no way is this settle accept scienc only if u don’t question why science is now controlled by debt and research grant come from that debt.

China is taking environmentalism very seriously and just implemented cap and trade.

Curbing emissions is not a US/EU-led conspiracy. It's a well-established goal implemented by the majority of the scientific community and adopted by every single major government (momentary lapse by the US under Trump notwithstanding).

I understand your criticisms of cap and trade but your assumption that global warming was invented as an excuse to implement cap and trade is the opposite of the actual causation. Why would "bankers" fund studies, spread fear, just to implement cap and trade, so they can trade? There already existed a commodities and derivative market for energy production, without caps or regulation, and traders were perfectly happy to profit in that market (see, Enron).

If anything, economic incentives would prefer there *not* be any regulations in place, and just profit off traditional energy production. However, with environmental regulations in place, "bankers" will still try to make money and they're utilizing cap and trade markets as a way to still profit despite regulations in place.

You can tell by the very fact that there is a CAP in the trading. If you're fearful of water scarcity leading to water cap and trade, could you imagine if cap and trade was not in place, and there was actual water scarcity? Wouldn't commodity traders profit even more in the absence of cap and trade, where they can just monopolize water sources?

I commend you trying to reason with these guys but you're dealing with children who can't be bothered to think for themselves besides Liberals bad, government bad (except for the government run by Trump), science bad.

[GhostofChenier]

I disagree if I read correctly. “Adopted by every single major government” is not true. “Forced upon every single major government” is more accurate by the threats to remove loans, and all environment related loan must be via IPCC dictated (controlled) bank.

Also for Wall St, cap trade system in environmental “theoretical” threats are easy to scam. This year in France and trial now over 500 billion was stolen by carbon loopholes.

More coming. I don’t believe science doctrine which are continually manipulated yet screamed as “fact”. Yes climate changes, but carbon portion not clear.

But clear enough for banks to trade hundreds of investment avenues and product.

[stilldropin20]

And speaking of unsustainable policies...

The federal debt held by the public stood at nearly $15.5 trillion at the last count on July 9th, up 1 trillion since this administration took over — hey, a trillion here and a trillion there - pretty soon it is real money.

7.5 percent increase under this administration. And that figure will accelerate unless (this administration and Congress) impose massive spending cuts, or reverse course and increase taxes - not likely on either account. Ds will take over the house and the Rs are unlikely to back track on their failed policy.

CBO projected debt will reach 152 percent of the nation’s total annual economic output by 2048 — up from 78 percent currently. Nice.

An arrogant person considers himself perfect. This is the chief harm of arrogance. It interferes with a person's main task in life - becoming a better person.

Leo Tolstoy

I am not right in all I say, I am not this fool. But I am not foolish to trust “government weather fund science”, which means fund by commodity traders. I have many flaw, I need more focus on fact and family. But I am confident in my view in the right in cap trade evil.

But to get there question must be ask. Why does Clinton do the speeches at Goldman Sachs? Why Gore? Why for millions? Gs They traded sulfur first, carbon first, and now in soon future water.

They need UN and by finance market, UN in NY US is very corrupt in this. Global warming too broad easy to change to what is need, and ensure carbon trade long after we die. China Russia are not stupid enough to play along, they want BRIC

You all cry about trump as your children are being brainwash. In no way is this settle accept scienc only if u don’t question why science is now controlled by debt and research grant come from that debt.

China is taking environmentalism very seriously and just implemented cap and trade.

Curbing emissions is not a US/EU-led conspiracy. It's a well-established goal implemented by the majority of the scientific community and adopted by every single major government (momentary lapse by the US under Trump notwithstanding).

I understand your criticisms of cap and trade but your assumption that global warming was invented as an excuse to implement cap and trade is the opposite of the actual causation. Why would "bankers" fund studies, spread fear, just to implement cap and trade, so they can trade? There already existed a commodities and derivative market for energy production, without caps or regulation, and traders were perfectly happy to profit in that market (see, Enron).

If anything, economic incentives would prefer there *not* be any regulations in place, and just profit off traditional energy production. However, with environmental regulations in place, "bankers" will still try to make money and they're utilizing cap and trade markets as a way to still profit despite regulations in place.

You can tell by the very fact that there is a CAP in the trading. If you're fearful of water scarcity leading to water cap and trade, could you imagine if cap and trade was not in place, and there was actual water scarcity? Wouldn't commodity traders profit even more in the absence of cap and trade, where they can just monopolize water sources?

Because the bankers are always investing first in emerging markets. Like china. Look folks, Businesses dont invest their own money...but seldomly...Hardly. Instead they borrow (from the "bankers") to minimize exposure. Once they find "lightening in a bottle" "the bankers" use their investment banking arms of their banks to further invest in any given emerging market or technology. And they make money hand over fist doing so. They literally print money.

So the bankers are first. Every single time they are first. Always and forever they will and have been first. Somebody always has "the money" on the line. And in the modern world that somebody is "the bankers." In the curious case of these bankers, however, they have convinced Kings and Queens (and now nation states and republics) to allow them to create money out of thin air via fractional reserve lending in order to invest said money into those emerging markets and technologies. And then (once "the bankers" find something good...that lightening in a bottle investment) they use the investment arms of those exact same banks to leverage themselves into extremely strong positions for significant financial growth.

The bankers were first in china and taiwon. India as well. They are on the hook for their investments as well as their investment banking divisions make hundreds of billions as the emerging market or technology experiences growth and success.

^^^^is that good enough for you??? Does that help you understand the motivation here for the bankers??? Does it???

Following so far?

Let's move forward.

What and how exactly does this tie into globalization and losing jobs and revenue overseas?

I mean Why and how are we lsing plants and jobs overseas??
Labor costs? perhaps...but not really any more...I'm told (by the left) that robots do most of the manufacturing now. Does the robot cost more in the USA than China? I doubt it.

Land? Depends...there is some super cheap land in fly over country.

Taxes? Nope...you bring enough jobs to a local economy and the state and city/village will literally wave your taxes or reduce them to basically non existant overhead cost levels.


So why is manufacturing (before trump) moving overseas????? Why????????

Its called regulations and restrictions. Which are nothing more than organized mafia level corruption at its highest order where "the science" gets bought and paid for. The "news" gets bought and paid for. (Or financed and even outright owned like the rockefellors own NBC and Bank of America. The news pundits are bought and paid for. Global corporations that make their money by shipping products to your door from China make so much money that they can now buy major news papers (like Amazon purchasing the WaPo)...and with that "the so called news" gets disseminated. The fear gets mongered. The temperature rises. Politicians "run" on these (non-issue) issues. The country gets divided. The women get excited. The american worker goes broke and its no joke. Its hard as hell to fight it, so don't buy it! We end up with American manufacturing plants closing in cities and fly over country all due to bought and paid for science, bought and paid for news sources, bought and paid for politicians, and a bunch of idiots who dont know the difference believe it all and allow our jobs to get shipped overseas. And fools who dont know better and are too lazy to follow the money. And too stupid to think that it is paramount to actually follow the money....Why follow the money when they can get it straight from Don Lemmon and Anderson cooper? American fools at their finest...who actually think they know something. <---And why!!!!! China is no more responsible that the USA. With neither CO2 emissions nor appropriate disposal of potentially harmful chemicals into the soil or the waters. Why!!!?? Why leave it to China???? Does anyone actually trust China over the USA???!!!! Anyone!!!??

Of course not! You're not that effing stupid, right? so if you really care about "the environment" why not then keep the manufacturing here? Where we can monitor and watch it better? And Keep the jobs here so american can afford the increased costs of keeping the manufacturing here?? How about the good ol' fashioned idea of doing a responsible job with the environment right here in the USA? The USA consumes the goods!! We do!!! We should get back to producing them as well. Bring it all back. The jobs with them and Phuck the bankers!!!!!!!!! I dont care how much money they lose betting on China!!!!!!!!!! You should not care about "the bankers" losing money either!!!!!!

[pancakes3]

so you think that:

- "Bankers" were sitting in their offices, living the wolf of wall street life
- "Bankers" noticed a superficial rise in global temperatures
- "Bankers" located and financed scientists to publish peer-reviewed scientific studies describing this rise as global warming
- "Bankers" bribed government officials the world over to implement regulations in response to this artificial fear
- "Bankers" did so at the severe detriment of their existing investments in coal, petrochemicals, other energy industries (not to mention down-stream, energy-adjacent industries such as the auto and shipping industries) which are some of the most lucrative industries in existence
- "Bankers" reap the fruits of this plan, some 30-40 years after they begin financing the studies and capitalize on cap and trade

as opposed to:

- Scientists, acting as academics who gather funding through grants and endowments, which is baked into the academic tenure system the world over, noticed a superficial rise in global temperatures
- Scientists scrutinize this trend through peer-reviewed scientific publications.
- Coal, petrochemicals, etc. industries fund their own research into the global warming phenomenon trying to discredit so as to not harm their profits, causing "disagreements" in the validity of global warming
- Governments the world over, acting as agents of the people and protectors of the people against threats such as wanton corporate interests, assess the legitimacy of global warming ultimate decide that it exists, and implement regulations that hamper the profit-seeking behavior of the energy industry.
- The energy industry adapts, pivots, and innovates in response to these regulations.
- Government actors implement a cap-and-trade system so as to soften the blow of environmental regulations, partly to avoid shocks to the market, and partly because the energy industry's lobbyists wish it so.
- "Bankers" participate and trade in the cap-and-trade market.

like, you seriously think that?

read that to your girlfriend and see what she has to say.
read it to your friends. read it to your clients. read it to your employees. seriously. go on. read it aloud to yourself even.