The Official 2015 Las Vegas Summer League Thread

[E-Balla]

I vowed to my brother to quit watching basketball if we passed on Mudiay.

Porzi grew on me but I'm sick to my stomach watching Mudiay tear ish up like I knew he would.

This play made me sick.


I had Porzingis 5th on my board but Mudiay...

I just really want to know how it was so obvious to everyone but Phil and what he was thinking.

As soon as the Knicks passed on Mudiay he became dead to me. Wish him a long, healthy, great career but the post-draft b*tching period many fans go through is what makes ME sick. Slurping every bead of sweat from Manny's private areas. Same thing happened with Gallo and Eric Gordon, then Hill and Jennings. The draft is done. If you want to vent go yell in your pillow. Not just talking about you Balla, but all these boys coming out of the woodworks.

I would have picked Mudiay myself on draft day, but only because I didn't think Phil had the testicular fortitude to take Porz and Manny was a little more ready to go. My posts right before the draft had me leaning heavily towards just saying f*ck it and going with my gut of wanting to take Kris, because his upside is on a whole nother level. I don't believe we can build a winner around Melo in time anyway, so no need to rush things.

I watch these Mudiay highlights and while he played well they are nothing that impressive to me. His in-game athleticism isn't all that great. Still can't shoot and who knows if he ever will. I always thought at best Manny will top out as a top 5-10 PG, but there are so many great young guards now he has to leap-frog. However nobody has the set of tools/skills that Kris does. Not even Towns. The closest thing I can come up with is AD, and he measured 4 inches shorter. Kris is a truly unique specimen and it's easy to imagine watching him play the monster he can become on both ends. While Grant looks like he can become a more than solid starting PG that will give us most of what Mudiay would.

Knick fans want to pretend that they're patient. They like the idea. Yet if Kris and/or Grant struggle tonight many will be out whining again. The never-ending tour. We won't truly know who the better pick was until a few years from now, so if you people are going to be posting vines of every decent Mudiay assist please just go join TKF in Denver and save me the trouble of ignoring you.

Porzingis isn't comparable to AD can we stop doing that? He's young, tall, fluid, and can shoot so he's AD? Nope. Davis seriously has the potential to be the greatest player ever. Not saying he reaches that potential but the only people ever as good as him at his age are Tim Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, and Jordan.

Now back on the subject I know a lot of your post past the first part doesn't apply to me so I'll only focus on the first part since I agree with the rest for the most part. Is there something wrong with being peeved that your team made a bad decision? As a Knicks fan I'm going to complain about moves we make that I disagree with because I care. I complained for days when we picked Gallo over Brook and EG and I'm still complaining about Hill over Jennings. Now I'm not rooting against the moves at all and I'm not just going to keep complaining (I said I'd stop being a Knicks fan if we traded for Melo and I hated the trade until about 10-15 games in when I saw he wasn't the player he seemed to be in Denver from afar) but Mudiay just played and looked great while doing it. I mean this is the Summer League thread its not like we opened up another thread to complain we just commented on a game that happened yesterday and the performance of a player.

[delvec19]

What time is the game?

8:30pm

[Fury]

I vowed to my brother to quit watching basketball if we passed on Mudiay.

Porzi grew on me but I'm sick to my stomach watching Mudiay tear ish up like I knew he would.

This play made me sick.


I had Porzingis 5th on my board but Mudiay...

I just really want to know how it was so obvious to everyone but Phil and what he was thinking.

As soon as the Knicks passed on Mudiay he became dead to me. Wish him a long, healthy, great career but the post-draft b*tching period many fans go through is what makes ME sick. Slurping every bead of sweat from Manny's private areas. Same thing happened with Gallo and Eric Gordon, then Hill and Jennings. The draft is done. If you want to vent go yell in your pillow. Not just talking about you Balla, but all these boys coming out of the woodworks.

I would have picked Mudiay myself on draft day, but only because I didn't think Phil had the testicular fortitude to take Porz and Manny was a little more ready to go. My posts right before the draft had me leaning heavily towards just saying f*ck it and going with my gut of wanting to take Kris, because his upside is on a whole nother level. I don't believe we can build a winner around Melo in time anyway, so no need to rush things.

I watch these Mudiay highlights and while he played well they are nothing that impressive to me. His in-game athleticism isn't all that great. Still can't shoot and who knows if he ever will. I always thought at best Manny will top out as a top 5-10 PG, but there are so many great young guards now he has to leap-frog. However nobody has the set of tools/skills that Kris does. Not even Towns. The closest thing I can come up with is AD, and he measured 4 inches shorter. Kris is a truly unique specimen and it's easy to imagine watching him play the monster he can become on both ends. While Grant looks like he can become a more than solid starting PG that will give us most of what Mudiay would.

Knick fans want to pretend that they're patient. They like the idea. Yet if Kris and/or Grant struggle tonight many will be out whining again. The never-ending tour. We won't truly know who the better pick was until a few years from now, so if you people are going to be posting vines of every decent Mudiay assist please just go join TKF in Denver and save me the trouble of ignoring you.

[Rock Bottom]

Now Imagine this.. Mudaiy making the nuggets scrubs look like All Stars..

Imagine what Mudaiy could have done with Melo..

*drops mic*

[E-Balla]

First off we shouldn't be picking to fit around Melo. He's 31 and we stink. Secondly you have a ton of misconceptions of Melo's game. The best Melo has ever played was in the Olympics off ball. That's the role we should be wanting to put him in. He's always played better with a good PG and he spent years with AI so he's good without the ball.

Jerian ain't half bad

Yeah he is good. Again it's not like I'm mad at how the draft went. We got my number 5 player with the 4th pick and a PG and C that fit well with him. Now I would've preferred Portis and Mudiay but I'm not the team president or god so I could be wrong.

[delvec19]

James Worthy just described Porzingis as a mix of Dirk and Durant...

http://nypost.com/2015/07/13/one-nba-great-thinks-knicks-porzingis-is-a-freak-of-nature/

[21 Hussle]

As soon as the Knicks passed on Mudiay he became dead to me. Wish him a long, healthy, great career but the post-draft b*tching period many fans go through is what makes ME sick. Slurping every bead of sweat from Manny's private areas. Same thing happened with Gallo and Eric Gordon, then Hill and Jennings. The draft is done. If you want to vent go yell in your pillow. Not just talking about you Balla, but all these boys coming out of the woodworks.

I would have picked Mudiay myself on draft day, but only because I didn't think Phil had the testicular fortitude to take Porz and Manny was a little more ready to go. My posts right before the draft had me leaning heavily towards just saying f*ck it and going with my gut of wanting to take Kris, because his upside is on a whole nother level. I don't believe we can build a winner around Melo in time anyway, so no need to rush things.

I watch these Mudiay highlights and while he played well they are nothing that impressive to me. His in-game athleticism isn't all that great. Still can't shoot and who knows if he ever will. I always thought at best Manny will top out as a top 5-10 PG, but there are so many great young guards now he has to leap-frog. However nobody has the set of tools/skills that Kris does. Not even Towns. The closest thing I can come up with is AD, and he measured 4 inches shorter. Kris is a truly unique specimen and it's easy to imagine watching him play the monster he can become on both ends. While Grant looks like he can become a more than solid starting PG that will give us most of what Mudiay would.

Knick fans want to pretend that they're patient. They like the idea. Yet if Kris and/or Grant struggle tonight many will be out whining again. The never-ending tour. We won't truly know who the better pick was until a few years from now, so if you people are going to be posting vines of every decent Mudiay assist please just go join TKF in Denver and save me the trouble of ignoring you.

I love you duder. Such a great post, these boys acting like we drafted WCS or some ish. We're talking about the Summer League, not the real game, but Summer League smh. The only difference between you and I is that I actually wanted Zingus over Mudiay. But if we did pick Mudiay I wouldn't complain over and over again saying that we made a bad choice I would just root for the kid. Geez!

[omerome]

Now Imagine this.. Mudaiy making the nuggets scrubs look like All Stars..

Imagine what Mudaiy could have done with Melo..

*drops mic*

I'd rather imagine this... once Kris gets stronger, how in the world can you defend him?

Then imagine that you also have to deal with Melo...

*drops mic*

[god shammgod]

Mudiay only fell because of teams need. Not for a lack of talent. Min was not picking him as number 1. Russell was considered the sexy pick for the Lakers. Mudiay would have never been picked ahead of OK4. We picked Zingis, but there was a good chance if Zingis was not the pick, Mudiay was. Magic did not need a PG. The only dumb team is Sac, no way WCS should have been picked ahead of him. They needed a PG to work with boogie.

Yes, the rumor during the draft was that if we were unable to line up that deal to draft Jerian Grant that they were going to select Mudiay. Considering that Kris and his agent didn't know that the Knicks were going to select him until right before his name was called, maybe there is some truth to it. With that said, you guys need to chill out! I was one of the pro Mudiay guys, but theres nothing wrong with selecting Kris over him. I said before the draft that Mudiay was the player that i wanted, but i wouldnt be upset at drafting KP or Hezonja because they have such a high ceiling. The team that should be pissed is Sacramento, if we took Winslow or WCS at 4 then I would be right there with you, but you guys need to chill with this "I told you so" bs during meaningless summer league games.

that doesn't make sense. even if they had the trade with the hawks worked out before the draft, how could they be sure nobody would take grant before 19 ?

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Mudiay people need to read this over and over again till it sinks in and they stop crying over spilt milk.

Hell it's not even spilt milk, Phil and staff took one look at the bottle and said oh hell no we're not letting that happen.

How is that supposed to make people who wanted Mudiay feel better?

[StephNYKurry]

James Worthy just described Porzingis as a mix of Dirk and Durant...

http://nypost.com/2015/07/13/one-nba-great-thinks-knicks-porzingis-is-a-freak-of-nature/

[TrueWarrior]

Porzingis isn't comparable to AD can we stop doing that? He's young, tall, fluid, and can shoot so he's AD? Nope. Davis seriously has the potential to be the greatest player ever. Not saying he reaches that potential but the only people ever as good as him at his age are Tim Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, and Jordan.

Now back on the subject I know a lot of your post past the first part doesn't apply to me so I'll only focus on the first part since I agree with the rest for the most part. Is there something wrong with being peeved that your team made a bad decision? As a Knicks fan I'm going to complain about moves we make that I disagree with because I care. I complained for days when we picked Gallo over Brook and EG and I'm still complaining about Hill over Jennings. Now I'm not rooting against the moves at all and I'm not just going to keep complaining (I said I'd stop being a Knicks fan if we traded for Melo and I hated the trade until about 10-15 games in when I saw he wasn't the player he seemed to be in Denver from afar) but Mudiay just played and looked great while doing it. I mean this is the Summer League thread its not like we opened up another thread to complain we just commented on a game that happened yesterday and the performance of a player.

Let me know who would you compare Kris to. I'm not saying he's going to be as good or better than AD just because he's bigger, but there aren't any 7'3'' athletic dudes who have the skills of Kris just prancing around. His lateral quickness and defense looked amazing to me. I'm sure he'll have some trouble with Randle and Tarik Black tonight because they are big boys, but his potential on defense alone got me real pepped up. Don't know how anyone can watch Kris and still care about what Mudiay does.

As fas as your 2nd paragraph goes I got no problem with people talking about summer league in a summer league thread. It's the "we made a mistake" and Mudiay circlejerk sh*t 2 games into said summer league that is funny to me. I should expect it by now though.

[sims]

James Worthy just described Porzingis as a mix of Dirk and Durant...

http://nypost.com/2015/07/13/one-nba-great-thinks-knicks-porzingis-is-a-freak-of-nature/

this is the key point. a guy like KP might come along once in a generation whereas the mudiay types (not to take anything away from him - not at all) are much easier to find. i have a feeling all of these people complaining about the pick will be quiet when they see KP running pick and pop from 30 feet.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Why are so many of y'all acting like we can't comment on how Mudiay was playing in a summer league thread? There's only like 2 dudes on here talking about Phil making a bad decision in going with Porzingis instead. In my case, I'm going to be talking about all of the rookies from this class that I like when they play (Mudiay, Russell, Porzingis, and Stanley)...isn't that the point of this thread?

[god shammgod]

we probably won't know who will be better for years. i'm fine with the choice. we went for potential. i was mostly worried about us taking winslow.

[TheBigBoss]

Mudiay only fell because of teams need. Not for a lack of talent. Min was not picking him as number 1. Russell was considered the sexy pick for the Lakers. Mudiay would have never been picked ahead of OK4. We picked Zingis, but there was a good chance if Zingis was not the pick, Mudiay was. Magic did not need a PG. The only dumb team is Sac, no way WCS should have been picked ahead of him. They needed a PG to work with boogie.

Yes, the rumor during the draft was that if we were unable to line up that deal to draft Jerian Grant that they were going to select Mudiay. Considering that Kris and his agent didn't know that the Knicks were going to select him until right before his name was called, maybe there is some truth to it. With that said, you guys need to chill out! I was one of the pro Mudiay guys, but theres nothing wrong with selecting Kris over him. I said before the draft that Mudiay was the player that i wanted, but i wouldnt be upset at drafting KP or Hezonja because they have such a high ceiling. The team that should be pissed is Sacramento, if we took Winslow or WCS at 4 then I would be right there with you, but you guys need to chill with this "I told you so" bs during meaningless summer league games.

that doesn't make sense. even if they had the trade with the hawks worked out before the draft, how could they be sure nobody would take grant before 19 ?

Ok, let me re-phrase that, they said that if they couldn't line up a deal for another 1st rounder that they were just going to take Mudiay, not that they knew for sure they were going to draft Grant.

[SelbyCobra]

Wade had basically the same TS% as Mudiay at the same ages. That's how u measure efficiency, not fg%

Ok, you clearly are trolling now, or you simply don't understand that rates like TS% and eFG% still needs to be contextualized.

• In the 12 games in China last year Mudiay had a .528 TS%
• Totaling his numbers from McD's AA game, Jordan Classic, and Nike Hoops Summit, Mudiay had a .490 TS%
• Dwyane Wade had a .537 TS% in his first season at Marquette. His .507 eFG% that first season ranked 10th overall in CUSA.
• Dwyane Wade has a .573 TS% in his second season at Marquette
• For the sake of context, the league average TS% in the NBA last year was 53%
• Even in the offensively augmented CBA environment, Mudiay was still inefficient. The league average TS% was ridiculously around .580 last year. Mudiay's .528 is terrible in that regard.
• Every single one of the 20 teams in the CBA had a TEAM TS% greater than Mudiay's .528
• If he played enough games, Mudiay's .528 TS% would have ranked 118th out of 143 qualifiers. That's the 18th percentile, or absolutely terrible.

I love Mudiay as a prospect, and wanted the Knicks to take him BADLY, but he is nowhere even remotely close to Wade's efficiency in the prospect sense. In fact, we've seen him nowhere close to simply "efficient", much less DWade's level. He's not that dude - and a long ways away of even being thought about in the conversation of efficiency when it comes to his scoring.

18 y/o Emmanuel Mudiay's TS% = 52.8%
18 y/o Wade's TS% = 53.7%

Mudiay did this against grown men and an NBA 3-pt line. He had a PER of 19 (PER is adjusted so that 15 represents the average player)

Yes, yes - you can find those TS% numbers in the post you actually quoted. The one where I show you how inefficient Mudiay's .528 was, and how efficient Wade's .537 was when you take the time to look more closely at them.

PER has zero place in this specific discussion of scoring efficiency since it is a broader metric whose calculation includes REB, ASST, TO, etc, so you can stop trying to move the goalposts, but I do love the ignorance shown in trying to inform me that PER is adjusted to give context...right after you wrote out numbers that, when adjusted for context, actually destroy your own argument.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

we probably won't know who will be better for years. i'm fine with the choice. we went for potential. i was mostly worried about us taking winslow.

That would have been such a terrible/horrible/disgusting selection...I still thank God

[god shammgod]

Why are so many of y'all acting like we can't comment on how Mudiay was playing in a summer league thread? There's only like 2 dudes on here talking about Phil making a bad decision in going with Porzingis instead. In my case, I'm going to be talking about all of the rookies from this class that I like when they play (Mudiay, Russell, Porzingis, and Stanley)...isn't that the point of this thread?

not this in particular, but there are number of people here that don't want you criticize anything. don't complain about derek willaims's contract, or the extra money given to lance or lou, so forth and so on. it's like "they live" in here at times.

[GettinitDone]

I would have taken Mudiay, I think he's gonna be an All Star very soon, CP3 2.0.

But we got Zing, so I'm gonna support him, and I trust my analysis that his dedication and passion for the game, combined with his easy going, friendly attitude and fluent english that quickly warms him to his teammates will make him realize his full potential, even if it takes 1-2 seasons.