Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[payitforward]

(Gortat) ... gets so many rebounds because he's 17th overall in minutes in the league...

No, sorry, not the case. Look at Centers who start or play a lot of minutes per game -- say 25: Gortat is 9th in rebounding per minute. Not about total rebounds, hence not about total minutes.

The eye test shows that...our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better...

Ok, that's ridiculous, deneem. It sure isn't anyone replacing him on the floor who's making up the rebounding deficit that happens when he sits. So who is it that's suddenly becoming a much better rebounder when he's on the floor w/o Gortat? There isn't anybody.

[Dat2U]

We don't need Gortat because of his offense we need him defensively
We are 1-6 when he's has an offensive rating over 125...
We have firepower wall beal and Porter could score 20+ every night on good efficiency with ease...

We need Gortat to be tough around the rim defensively and he's regressed from an already soft style...
Our guards and wings have to watch the pain more so than the 3 defensively and it's not because they can't stay with perimeter players or get lost on screens...
It's cause we don't have a valid rim protecter anymore we don't have no toughness down low that's y the mahinmi signing was so important and it's exposing gortat even more because ernie might have actually known this

Please stop. You are wrong. Dead wrong. This notion that Gortat isn't essential, or is somehow hurting the team is just plain absurd. He has the second highest on/off differential on the team.

Beal +14.0
Gortat +10.9
Porter +10.8
Morris +8.4
Wall +7.0

He also leads the team in minutes which is nuts for a center. He leads all centers in the league in minutes per game. He ranks 17th overall in minutes per game. He's 5th in the league in rebounds per game, which is pretty damn good for such a "soft" player. (He's 9th in rebound percentage.) The man has been a workhorse.

Gortat may not be Shaq in his prime, but there are so many other problems on this team that are far, far more pressing than Marcin Gortat.

Jason smith is literally the answer
We have 2 centers gortat and smith...gortat should have the highest on/off considering Smith is his only replacement ...
He leads in minutes because Jason smith doesn't deserve any...
He gets so many rebounds because he's 17th overall in minutes in the league and teams literally worry more about our transition offense than getting offensive boards...
The eye test shows that...our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better...

Gortat is good but he's not good for us...

Anyone that plays halfway decent is good for us. Why? Because there are literally 4 guys on a roster of 15 that are playing above replacement level at the moment. Yet, you harp on 1 of the 4 that are. If you suggest trading Gortat to get younger or to tank, then fine. But to suggest that somehow trading Gortat makes us better is silly because at 32, your not going to get full value for him.

[deneem4]

(Gortat) ... gets so many rebounds because he's 17th overall in minutes in the league...

No, sorry, not the case. Look at Centers who start or play a lot of minutes per game -- say 25: Gortat is 9th in rebounding per minute. Not about total rebounds, hence not about total minutes.

The eye test shows that...our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better...

Ok, that's ridiculous, deneem. It sure isn't anyone replacing him on the floor who's making up the rebounding deficit that happens when he sits. So who is it that's suddenly becoming a much better rebounder when he's on the floor w/o Gortat? There isn't anybody.

Check the on and off stats of our rebounding

[gambitx777]

Our bench sucks because our bench sucks. There's no talent there. There are no shot creators and no defensive mistake-erasers.

The biggest thing our bench needs is a scoring PG who can take the pressure off youngsters like Oubre, Sato and McClellen so they can just try and blend in. The bench would be a whole lot better if we spent the money devoted to Smith and Burke on Sessions instead; and if Mahinmi was healthy. This would be a pretty solid bench:

PG Sessions
SG McClellan/Sato
SF Oubre
PF Nicholson
C Mahinmi

i would call the bucks they really could use some help at back up point guard and center.
Do mahinmi, and burke and a 2018 uprotected first for henson, snell, and filler as needed. they might bite on that, since henson is in the dog house and the odd man out on that team with all the young bigs, and snell has not been valued much since getting there. the first might get this deal done. fixed out wing depth and defence and fixes our big depth. we can roll out ochifu for center minutes and see if he can hang and if not we sign another guy off the street till we find someone who can hang. and we commit to tomas at the point for better or worse and hope he gets his shooting figured out. We can always cut house, thornton, or stretch smith, if we need to sign another Center or PG

Wow, yes, let's trade an unprotected pick for slop. I wonder why Henson is in the doghouse. Could it be because he's not very good? That is a disgustingly bad trade.

No not really.
the pick could be a late round pick, and henson is not a bad player, but look a who else is there, the bucks are stacked at PF and they really don't have a true center other than plumlee (who is not playing well), I don't count monrowe as a true center. Henson and Snell are good young players, both 25 both ply good defence. Snell shoots well, and hencson is a good offencive tool who blocks shots and rebounds well. this would clearly help make our team better, we are trading a center who has not played for us yet, and a point guard we can replace and a first in a future year for two young guys and filler. its a perfect situation, because two guys who don't fit in on a team could be traded for two guys who will fit on that team and make the team they are going to better. this years pick no way would I move it but im ok with moving a future first to boost our bench for years to come. I don't think any one can argue that you would not rather have henson over nicholson or smith and snell over thornton.

[krii]

The eye test shows that...our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better...

The eye test shows that ... our Earth is flat. I can't see no curves that would prove it otherwise. I can't fly to the space and assess whether I am, myself, wrong. I am not listening to others because they know nothing (Jon Snow). Therefore, our Globe is just flat as the pizza board.

The eye test shows that ... there is no bad effect of smoking. I mean my friend is smoking for over 30 years and he is alive so what is the problem, right?

The eye test shows that ... I don't lose my mind and fell into the drunken stupor when I'm drinking a bottle of scotch, therefore I can drive with ease.

I don't get why people are so much into this 'eye test' whilst all the data prove it otherwise. You've got Gortat's stats right here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gortama01.html), compare them to some other centers in the league. THAN put some of this season's games in replay and watch Wizards 'rebounding the same or better without Gortat on the floor'. Check Please focus also on some non-data-driven moves that Gortat do (boxing out - yes, sometimes he is boxing out!).

Oh and check those three links:
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defensive-rebounding/
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/offensive-rebounding/
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/rebounding/

Compare Gortat to other Wizards. Compare the team with and without him. If you still believe that 'our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor / it's like the same or better' then I really don't know what to say.

[deneem4]

The eye test shows that...our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better...

The eye test shows that ... our Earth is flat. I can't see no curves that would prove it otherwise. I can't fly to the space and assess whether I am, myself, wrong. I am not listening to others because they know nothing (Jon Snow). Therefore, our Globe is just flat as the pizza board.

The eye test shows that ... there is no bad effect of smoking. I mean my friend is smoking for over 30 years and he is alive so what is the problem, right?

The eye test shows that ... I don't lose my mind and fell into the drunken stupor when I'm drinking a bottle of scotch, therefore I can drive with ease.

I don't get why people are so much into this 'eye test' whilst all the data prove it otherwise. You've got Gortat's stats right here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gortama01.html), compare them to some other centers in the league. THAN put some of this season's games in replay and watch Wizards 'rebounding the same or better without Gortat on the floor'. Check Please focus also on some non-data-driven moves that Gortat do (boxing out - yes, sometimes he is boxing out!).

Oh and check those three links:
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defensive-rebounding/
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/offensive-rebounding/
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/rebounding/

Compare Gortat to other Wizards. Compare the team with and without him. If you still believe that 'our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor / it's like the same or better' then I really don't know what to say.

The eye test and the stats show
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gortama01/on-off/2017
It's like the same or better when gortat is off the floor

[deneem4]

2ndly...sorry I have an android
3rd...please quote whole quote
"He gets so many rebounds because he's 17th overall in minutes in the league and teams literally worry more about our transition offense than getting offensive boards...
The eye test shows that...
(should've spaced here)
our rebounds don't decrease when gortat is off the floor...it's like the same or better..."

And the stats show we gets the same amount of rebounds when gortat is off the floor

[deneem4]

Let's talk about rebounds

FACTS.........
We're 1st in 2nd Chance points
26th in defensive rebounding
9th in offensive rebounding
FOR SOME REASON
We're #1 in uncontested offensive rebounds
http://stats.nba.com/teams/offensive-rebounding/#!?sort=OREB_CHANCE_PCT_ADJ&dir=1
But
28th in scoring on putbacks
http://stats.nba.com/teams/putbacks/#!?sort=Score&dir=1
And
#29 in uncontested defensive rebounds
http://stats.nba.com/teams/defensive-rebounding/#!?sort=DREB_UNCONTEST&dir=1
(Only the Zack and andrew below us)

Why? Idk

we scored 23ppg in transition last year...
Compared to 15ppg this season...

END OF FACTS

Teams want to limit our transition, they sacrifice rebounds to do so...we have John wall we should be built around transition...
This is what I mean by fit...

And gortat has the least amount of dunks out of any of our starters...bad for the fans...

[payitforward]

deneem -- this is off-topic and also meant in a totally friendly way! Since we are discussing rebounds I can't help it but my ex-English professor side has taken over.

Things that come in number -- like rebounds or dunks, it's best to talk about how many rather than how much. In other words, better say someone has "the smallest number of dunks of any of our starters" rather than "the least amount of dunks..." Ditto rebounds. I.e. "number of rebounds" rather than "amount of rebounds" -- either for an individual or the team.

Ok... back to regularly scheduled programming -- and I'm counting on you not to resent my picky academic BS, deneem! -- you can be amused, don't be p@ssed, ok?

[tontoz]

Time for the reminder that the filter is your friend.

[Ruzious]

i would call the bucks they really could use some help at back up point guard and center.
Do mahinmi, and burke and a 2018 uprotected first for henson, snell, and filler as needed. they might bite on that, since henson is in the dog house and the odd man out on that team with all the young bigs, and snell has not been valued much since getting there. the first might get this deal done. fixed out wing depth and defence and fixes our big depth. we can roll out ochifu for center minutes and see if he can hang and if not we sign another guy off the street till we find someone who can hang. and we commit to tomas at the point for better or worse and hope he gets his shooting figured out. We can always cut house, thornton, or stretch smith, if we need to sign another Center or PG

Wow, yes, let's trade an unprotected pick for slop. I wonder why Henson is in the doghouse. Could it be because he's not very good? That is a disgustingly bad trade.

No not really.
the pick could be a late round pick, and henson is not a bad player, but look a who else is there, the bucks are stacked at PF and they really don't have a true center other than plumlee (who is not playing well), I don't count monrowe as a true center. Henson and Snell are good young players, both 25 both ply good defence. Snell shoots well, and hencson is a good offencive tool who blocks shots and rebounds well. this would clearly help make our team better, we are trading a center who has not played for us yet, and a point guard we can replace and a first in a future year for two young guys and filler. its a perfect situation, because two guys who don't fit in on a team could be traded for two guys who will fit on that team and make the team they are going to better. this years pick no way would I move it but im ok with moving a future first to boost our bench for years to come. I don't think any one can argue that you would not rather have henson over nicholson or smith and snell over thornton.

Henson's a bit inconsistent, but he's a good player who I doubt the Bucks would trade for Mahinmi. The Plumlee contract was the single worst over-pay of the offseason.

Snell... meh. The Bulls were probably going to cut him if the Bucks hadn't bit. He's an end of the bench player on a good team.

[payitforward]

Time for the reminder that the filter is your friend.

You telling him or me???

[tontoz]

Time for the reminder that the filter is your friend.

You telling him or me???

I am telling everyone. I put him on the filter a long time ago.

[pcbothwel]

Im not exactly sure if there is a thread for this, but what about current FA's?

We have the Min. and the room exception still left (2.8M prorated) should we sign someone? Thoughts?

I've got:
Carl Landry
Quincy Acy
Josh Smith
Archie Goodwin
Dorrell Wright
Tyler Hansbrough
JJ Hickson

Wright, Hickson, Acy, etc. Could all be a solid 9th/10th man...

[gambitx777]

Henson's a bit inconsistent, but he's a good player who I doubt the Bucks would trade for Mahinmi. The Plumlee contract was the single worst over-pay of the offseason.

Snell... meh. The Bulls were probably going to cut him if the Bucks hadn't bit. He's an end of the bench player on a good team.

Right at least you can justify 16 for mahinmi, you can even begin to do that for plumlee. That why i tossed in the first. our bench is so bad right now that henson would be a great addition and snell would intently get playing time. it would be nice if we could even snag delly, he would be a better back up to wall. The main this is even an end of the bench guy like snell would improve our bench. then we could sign a back up center off the street and see if he pans out. we desperately need to improve our bench!

[payitforward]

Im not exactly sure if there is a thread for this, but what about current FA's?

We have the Min. and the room exception still left (2.8M prorated) should we sign someone? Thoughts?

I've got:
Carl Landry
Quincy Acy
Josh Smith
Archie Goodwin
Dorrell Wright
Tyler Hansbrough
JJ Hickson

Wright, Hickson, Acy, etc. Could all be a solid 9th/10th man...

I didn't understand why we let Hickson go in the off season. He's still young, and he was very good for us (admittedly in small sample size minutes). He's always been a pretty good player.

I also like Quincy Acy. He's another guy who puts up pretty good numbers and is cheap. He was w/ Dallas earlier this year -- did they waive him?

Both these guys are a cut above Smith and Nicholson. But we are stuck with those two stiffs, unfortunately.

Not as interested in the other guys.

[gambitx777]

Im not exactly sure if there is a thread for this, but what about current FA's?

We have the Min. and the room exception still left (2.8M prorated) should we sign someone? Thoughts?

I've got:
Carl Landry
Quincy Acy
Josh Smith
Archie Goodwin
Dorrell Wright
Tyler Hansbrough
JJ Hickson

Wright, Hickson, Acy, etc. Could all be a solid 9th/10th man...

I didn't understand why we let Hickson go in the off season. He's still young, and he was very good for us (admittedly in small sample size minutes). He's always been a pretty good player.

I also like Quincy Acy. He's another guy who puts up pretty good numbers and is cheap. He was w/ Dallas earlier this year -- did they waive him?

Both these guys are a cut above Smith and Nicholson. But we are stuck with those two stiffs, unfortunately.

Not as interested in the other guys.

hickson is in china so.......hes gone we should have resigned him.

[deneem4]

deneem -- this is off-topic and also meant in a totally friendly way! Since we are discussing rebounds I can't help it but my ex-English professor side has taken over.

Things that come in number -- like rebounds or dunks, it's best to talk about how many rather than how much. In other words, better say someone has "the smallest number of dunks of any of our starters" rather than "the least amount of dunks..." Ditto rebounds. I.e. "number of rebounds" rather than "amount of rebounds" -- either for an individual or the team.

Ok... back to regularly scheduled programming -- and I'm counting on you not to resent my picky academic BS, deneem! -- you can be amused, don't be p@ssed, ok?

Yeah sorry I talk in a per game meaning relating to the team overall numbers..
But let's get back to topic...

[DANNYLANDOVER]

We don't need Gortat because of his offense we need him defensively
We are 1-6 when he's has an offensive rating over 125...
We have firepower wall beal and Porter could score 20+ every night on good efficiency with ease...

We need Gortat to be tough around the rim defensively and he's regressed from an already soft style...
Our guards and wings have to watch the pain more so than the 3 defensively and it's not because they can't stay with perimeter players or get lost on screens...
It's cause we don't have a valid rim protecter anymore we don't have no toughness down low that's y the mahinmi signing was so important and it's exposing gortat even more because ernie might have actually known this

Please stop. You are wrong. Dead wrong. This notion that Gortat isn't essential, or is somehow hurting the team is just plain absurd. He has the second highest on/off differential on the team.

Beal +14.0
Gortat +10.9
Porter +10.8
Morris +8.4
Wall +7.0

He also leads the team in minutes which is nuts for a center. He leads all centers in the league in minutes per game. He ranks 17th overall in minutes per game. He's 5th in the league in rebounds per game, which is pretty damn good for such a "soft" player. (He's 9th in rebound percentage.) The man has been a workhorse.

Gortat may not be Shaq in his prime, but there are so many other problems on this team that are far, far more pressing than Marcin Gortat.

Gosh, I really wish I could stop seeing deneem4's quoted comments!

[nate33]

Im not exactly sure if there is a thread for this, but what about current FA's?

We have the Min. and the room exception still left (2.8M prorated) should we sign someone? Thoughts?

I've got:
Carl Landry
Quincy Acy
Josh Smith
Archie Goodwin
Dorrell Wright
Tyler Hansbrough
JJ Hickson

Wright, Hickson, Acy, etc. Could all be a solid 9th/10th man...

I didn't understand why we let Hickson go in the off season. He's still young, and he was very good for us (admittedly in small sample size minutes). He's always been a pretty good player.

I also like Quincy Acy. He's another guy who puts up pretty good numbers and is cheap. He was w/ Dallas earlier this year -- did they waive him?

Both these guys are a cut above Smith and Nicholson. But we are stuck with those two stiffs, unfortunately.

Not as interested in the other guys.

Good point. I forgot about Hickson. Once Durant and Horford fell through, we should have signed Hickson and Acy to 1-year or 2-year deals at vet minimum level salaries. Then spent money on resigning Sessions or some other equivalent backup PG (Jared Bayless?). I'd have aimed for a 2-year deal, even if it meant paying more per year.

Assuming $3M for Hickson, $1M for Acy, $1M for Thornton, and $9M for Sessions, we would have had a better bench than we have now, plus $17M leftover to throw at whatever good bargain contracts became available late in the free agency session. Jared Sullinger was signed late for just $5.1M. Brandon Bass was signed for $1.5M. Nene signed for $2.9M. Derrick Williams signed for $4.5M.