2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

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Who is the Rookie of the Year?

Cade Cunningham
74
19%
Jalen Green
11
3%
Evan Mobley
72
19%
Scottie Barnes
198
51%
Jalen Suggs
0
No votes
Josh Giddey
10
3%
Franz Wagner
13
3%
Herbert Jones
2
1%
Chris Duarte
1
0%
Other (Dosunmu, Sengun, Yurtseven, Kuminga, etc.)
6
2%
 
Total votes: 387

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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#901 » by TheLand13 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:53 am

nikster wrote:Advanced stats don't really support it, especially when you look at their defense since Allens been out. Clearly has so many of the tools and has been extremely impactful, but I wouldn't put him on a tier with the best defenders in the league yet


This is the last time I'm going to address this because I'm getting annoyed having to repeat myself.

First and foremost, advanced stats are mostly BS when it comes to defense. Defensive stats claim OG and Klay Thompson are negative defenders. It's just not an accurate way to examine what someone's defensive impact on the floor is. You HAVE to watch what they do out there and see the things the advanced stats clearly don't take into account.

Second, Mobley's not ready to be a defensive anchor in the paint at center yet. He lacks the muscle mass and is simply not used to that role. He struggles to consistently bang up and down around the floor with opposing centers, and until he can bulk up, this is going to continue. His defensive impact came from his ability to roam the floor and guard multiple positions across the board with Allen locking down the paint. That made it incredibly difficult for opposing teams to switch on the Cavaliers because there wasn't anyone on the floor who couldn't guard out the perimeter, and there was always an Allen or a Mobley in the paint waiting to defend drives. They just don't have that anymore.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#902 » by Mak » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:05 am

Barnes is either tied or just slightly ahead of Mobley now for ROY.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#903 » by Vampirate » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:23 am

Not Mobley's finest scoring game today, but to be fair, Barnes was really struggling very recently as well in efficiency.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#904 » by tdotrep2 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:29 am

barnes is going to be a special passer
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#905 » by vege » Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:44 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#906 » by JustLucky » Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:46 am

barnes has to be considered ahead of mobley now right? Both have unheard of defense for a rookie but now barnes is ahead in the standings and has slightly better stats its gonna be close. you dont give it to cade when you have these two way studs contributing on winning teams in the playoffs already

scottie has better assists, offensive rebounds, shotting efficiency. all mobley has is better blocks but thats because hes taller. but scottie covers gaurds his versatility makes up for that imo. Mobley even has worse rebounding stats now because offensive rebounds are worth more
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#907 » by JustLucky » Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:54 am

TheLand13 wrote:
nikster wrote:Advanced stats don't really support it, especially when you look at their defense since Allens been out. Clearly has so many of the tools and has been extremely impactful, but I wouldn't put him on a tier with the best defenders in the league yet


This is the last time I'm going to address this because I'm getting annoyed having to repeat myself.

First and foremost, advanced stats are mostly BS when it comes to defense. Defensive stats claim OG and Klay Thompson are negative defenders. It's just not an accurate way to examine what someone's defensive impact on the floor is. You HAVE to watch what they do out there and see the things the advanced stats clearly don't take into account.

Second, Mobley's not ready to be a defensive anchor in the paint at center yet. He lacks the muscle mass and is simply not used to that role. He struggles to consistently bang up and down around the floor with opposing centers, and until he can bulk up, this is going to continue. His defensive impact came from his ability to roam the floor and guard multiple positions across the board with Allen locking down the paint. That made it incredibly difficult for opposing teams to switch on the Cavaliers because there wasn't anyone on the floor who couldn't guard out the perimeter, and there was always an Allen or a Mobley in the paint waiting to defend drives. They just don't have that anymore.


it sucks hes not ready to be a center because scottie barnes plays center and point guard for us when our other starters are injured
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#908 » by bstein14 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:42 pm

vege wrote:
Read on Twitter


What's really impressive about this is.

#1 Pistons haven't been getting rolled... They've been close to an average NBA team this month.

#2 Cade is just a 20 year old rookie, where tons of other rookies came in after 3 or 4 years of college.


Not to say that other rookies haven't had better months, Grant Hill (who played four years of college) has a better April his rookie year, just more PPG and RPG but not as many assists.

Still, I think its a good sign that Cade might be a triple double machine in the future once he figures everything out.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#909 » by Madhouse » Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:48 pm

I have this as a #3 way-tie right now or close to it. This should go down to the wire but vegas odds don't really support it which is hard to understand for me.

The thing with these advanced stats is it should only be a reference not the one and only deciding factor. Different roles and team mates just play too much of a factor.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#910 » by jasonxxx102 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:12 pm

TheLand13 wrote:
nikster wrote:Advanced stats don't really support it, especially when you look at their defense since Allens been out. Clearly has so many of the tools and has been extremely impactful, but I wouldn't put him on a tier with the best defenders in the league yet


This is the last time I'm going to address this because I'm getting annoyed having to repeat myself.

First and foremost, advanced stats are mostly BS when it comes to defense. Defensive stats claim OG and Klay Thompson are negative defenders. It's just not an accurate way to examine what someone's defensive impact on the floor is. You HAVE to watch what they do out there and see the things the advanced stats clearly don't take into account.

Second, Mobley's not ready to be a defensive anchor in the paint at center yet. He lacks the muscle mass and is simply not used to that role. He struggles to consistently bang up and down around the floor with opposing centers, and until he can bulk up, this is going to continue. His defensive impact came from his ability to roam the floor and guard multiple positions across the board with Allen locking down the paint. That made it incredibly difficult for opposing teams to switch on the Cavaliers because there wasn't anyone on the floor who couldn't guard out the perimeter, and there was always an Allen or a Mobley in the paint waiting to defend drives. They just don't have that anymore.


I’m not even sure why people want Mobley to camp out in the paint.

You can be a defensive anchor without being Rudy Gobert.

Mobley is much more deadly playing free safety.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#911 » by srhcan » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:27 pm

bstein14 wrote:
vege wrote:
Read on Twitter


What's really impressive about this is.

#1 Pistons haven't been getting rolled... They've been close to an average NBA team this month.

#2 Cade is just a 20 year old rookie, where tons of other rookies came in after 3 or 4 years of college.


Not to say that other rookies haven't had better months, Grant Hill (who played four years of college) has a better April his rookie year, just more PPG and RPG but not as many assists.

Still, I think its a good sign that Cade might be a triple double machine in the future once he figures everything out.

Cade should easily win rookie of month for March. That means he and Mobley will have the most rookie of month awards. The rookie of year is between them.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#912 » by Madhouse » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:32 pm

srhcan wrote:
bstein14 wrote:
vege wrote:
Read on Twitter


What's really impressive about this is.

#1 Pistons haven't been getting rolled... They've been close to an average NBA team this month.

#2 Cade is just a 20 year old rookie, where tons of other rookies came in after 3 or 4 years of college.


Not to say that other rookies haven't had better months, Grant Hill (who played four years of college) has a better April his rookie year, just more PPG and RPG but not as many assists.

Still, I think its a good sign that Cade might be a triple double machine in the future once he figures everything out.

Cade should easily win rookie of month for March. That means he and Mobley will have the most rookie of month awards. The rookie of year is between them.


Except Mobley has only won 1 rookie of the month award and Giddey has won the most.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#913 » by TheLand13 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:48 pm

srhcan wrote:Cade should easily win rookie of month for March. That means he and Mobley will have the most rookie of month awards. The rookie of year is between them.


Actually, this is incorrect. If Cade wins it this month (and he should), that would put him ahead of everyone in the East, since it's currently a four way tie between him, Mobley, Barnes and Wagner.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#914 » by kingmalaki » Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:50 pm

toooskies wrote: If you're taking the best chance at a 1A offensive option, Cade is your best bet and Green might still be the #2.


I don’t see how anyone that has been watching Green in the 2nd half of the season can make this statement. Especially in an era where efficiency is heavily focused on.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#915 » by vege » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:18 pm

bstein14 wrote:
vege wrote:
Read on Twitter


What's really impressive about this is.

#1 Pistons haven't been getting rolled... They've been close to an average NBA team this month.

#2 Cade is just a 20 year old rookie, where tons of other rookies came in after 3 or 4 years of college.


Not to say that other rookies haven't had better months, Grant Hill (who played four years of college) has a better April his rookie year, just more PPG and RPG but not as many assists.

Still, I think its a good sign that Cade might be a triple double machine in the future once he figures everything out.


Nah, this is the impressive part of what he is doing. Imagine if the zebras had any respect for him.

4384 rookies in the History of the NBA

Only 10 have averaged 17/5/5

Oscar did it shooting 11.1 FT PG
MJ did it shooting 9.1 FT PG
Luka did it shooting 6.7 FT PG
Magic did it shooting 6.0 FT PG
LeBron did it shooting 5.8 FT PG
Cade doing it shooting 2.5 FT PG
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#916 » by Jeremy Lin 7 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:40 pm

Cade is nothing but empty stats. ROY is a coin flip between Barnes and Mobley who actually have an impact on winning.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#917 » by JustLucky » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:40 pm

Madhouse wrote:I have this as a #3 way-tie right now or close to it. This should go down to the wire but vegas odds don't really support it which is hard to understand for me.

The thing with these advanced stats is it should only be a reference not the one and only deciding factor. Different roles and team mates just play too much of a factor.


vegas is smart and knows most people wont change their mind off mobley even tho they should atm.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#918 » by reanimator » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:43 pm

kingmalaki wrote:
toooskies wrote: If you're taking the best chance at a 1A offensive option, Cade is your best bet and Green might still be the #2.


I don’t see how anyone that has been watching Green in the 2nd half of the season can make this statement. Especially in an era where efficiency is heavily focused on.


Well given the self creation and passing gap, I think its fairly easy to see why he put Cade 1A. And truthfully, a few others have arguments over Green for 1b (Giddey, Barnes, Wagner).
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#919 » by aad » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:46 pm

Jeremy Lin 7 wrote:Cade is nothing but empty stats. ROY is a coin flip between Barnes and Mobley who actually have an impact on winning.


How is Cade putting up empty stats
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll 

Post#920 » by aad » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:50 pm

Cade is ROTY for me he’s been the best rookie for some time now

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