Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[verbal8]

Hopefully this means that Vesley's option will be declined. Seems silly to pay 6th pick money for a guy who is 3rd string at arguably the deepest position in the NBA.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ocid=yahoo

-- Though Wittman is downplaying that Trevor Booker has made the last three starts at power forward over Jan Vesely, who started the first two games, it does matter. The Wizards are better off with Booker starting because of his hustle and energy. Vesely, though bigger at 6-11, seems more comfortable coming off the bench, not having to deal with the immediate pressure of that spotlight and being a solid rebounder. Given the issues Vesely has shown with his confidence, this could be a win-win. He can still get more regular playing time, develop and stay under the radar until he's ready to play with Wall and Bradley Beal.

[80sballboy]

Hopefully this means that Vesley's option will be declined. Seems silly to pay 6th pick money for a guy who is 3rd string at arguably the deepest position in the NBA.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ocid=yahoo

-- Though Wittman is downplaying that Trevor Booker has made the last three starts at power forward over Jan Vesely, who started the first two games, it does matter. The Wizards are better off with Booker starting because of his hustle and energy. Vesely, though bigger at 6-11, seems more comfortable coming off the bench, not having to deal with the immediate pressure of that spotlight and being a solid rebounder. Given the issues Vesely has shown with his confidence, this could be a win-win. He can still get more regular playing time, develop and stay under the radar until he's ready to play with Wall and Bradley Beal.

There's no way he should have been a number six pick, but even if you did your homework, why not take a shot on a 6-foot-11 kid with incredible athleticism for his size later in the first round? I can't imagine his confidence was that low until he joined the NBA. Some Euros are soft, others can deal with the pressure and are physical enough to play. Jan is much bigger than Kirilenko, and he's carved out a nice career in the NBA. There's no reason why couldn't be a Kirilenko or Jeff Foster-type at some point if he ever gets his head straight. It just won't be here and if we don't make the playoffs, a new GM will clean house of as many EG flops as he can.

[hands11]

Who the heck would pay Ves 4.5 million next year? I'd be shocked if he got extended.

Well get prepared to get shocked then.

On what basis would Jan Vesely be worth $4 million+ Hands? I wouldn't even keep JV for the vet minimum.
Ernie Grunfeld would be the laughingstock of the league if he offered Jan Vesely a contract extension.

I'm not giving him anything. I'm saying what I think the Wizards will do and why.

I posted why one page back.

[hands11]

Vucevic would have been an upgrade to our bigs minus Nene, but he's terrible defensively. I think he's a backup center at best in this league.

Really.

You do realize he was 2nd in the league in rebounding last year right ? And that was his second year in the league. You think he is done developing ? Its all downhill from here. 22 is over the hill.

[TGW]

Vucevic would have been an upgrade to our bigs minus Nene, but he's terrible defensively. I think he's a backup center at best in this league.

Really.

You do realize he was 2nd in the league in rebounding last year right ? And that was his second year in the league. You think he is done developing ? Its all downhill from here. 22 is over the hill.

Hands--I never said he was done developing...I said he's terrible defensively, and I THINK he will be a backup center at best in this league. That's an opinion....take it for what it is.

Maybe he does improve on the defensive end, but much like rebounding, defense is an instinct you either have or you don't. It's rare that a player comes into the league a poor defender and turns into a good one later on in their career.

As for his rebounding--it's a nice skill to have but it's not a skill that translates into winning basketball. I'd rather have a defensive minded, positional defender like an Asik over Vucevic anyday.

[Nivek]

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ocid=yahoo

-- Though Wittman is downplaying that Trevor Booker has made the last three starts at power forward over Jan Vesely, who started the first two games, it does matter. The Wizards are better off with Booker starting because of his hustle and energy. Vesely, though bigger at 6-11, seems more comfortable coming off the bench, not having to deal with the immediate pressure of that spotlight and being a solid rebounder. Given the issues Vesely has shown with his confidence, this could be a win-win. He can still get more regular playing time, develop and stay under the radar until he's ready to play with Wall and Bradley Beal.

NO! The Wizards are better off with Booker starting because Booker is BETTER than Vesely.

[payitforward]

As for his rebounding--it's a nice skill to have but it's not a skill that translates into winning basketball. I'd rather have a defensive minded, positional defender like an Asik over Vucevic anyday.

Though I can see preferring Asik over Vucevic, your first statement could not be farther from the truth.

You win games either by

a) posting a higher TS% than your opponent on the same number of scoring opportunities, or

b) getting more scoring opportunities than your opponent (allowing you to shoot a lower TS% but still score more points).

Shooting a high %, getting to the line a lot, and holding down an opponent's TS% w/ high quality defense -- those are the activities that help give your team the higher TS%.

Rebounding the basketball is the primary way you get more scoring opportunities than the other team.

Hence, rebounding certainly "translates into winning basketball."

Now, offensive boards are worth more than defensive boards (because the latter are more subject to diminishing returns), and Vucevic is not quite as good w/ them. But, still, he's quite good. He and Asik are quite close across the board:

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?y ... 28%5D=5828

But, Vucevic is much younger and likely has more upside development to come than Asik. He's also much cheaper. I'd much rather have him than Asik.

But... Vucevic is not available! And he ain't gonna be. So... Asik if at all possible.

[tontoz]

I would take Asik easily over Vucevic. A center is the teams defensive anchor, the most important position on the team defensively.

And there is two sides to the story regarding offensive rebounding . A guy who goes after offensive rebounds a lot isn't going to get them most of the time. That means most of the time they will be trailing the play in transition defense. That is probably why many teams are emphasizing transition D over offensive rebounding more and more in recent years.

Zaza got a lot of offensive rebounds but a lot of that was just rebounding his own misses after getting his shots blocked or throwing up bricks. His offensive rebounds were at least partly due to his inability to finish inside.

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Vesely invested more than just his time and effort into having a productive summer. In search of the spark that helped him reach the NBA, Vesely hired Miro Alilovic, the coach who brought him to Slovenia from the Czech Republic at age 16.

“The toughest part is I’m not playing. I don’t get a chance,” Vesely said when asked about adjusting to the NBA after arriving from Partizan-Belgrade in Serbia. “Of course, I have something to prove. I have to stay ready, wait for my chance and if I have my chance, to grab it.”

Alilovic trained with Vesely last summer in Los Angeles and helped him rediscover the joy that was absent during two frustrating seasons in the NBA. Vesely had a decent showing in summer league, and had what appeared to be a breakthrough performance in the European championships, which prompted Vesely to invite Alilovic to stay with him this season.

“He’s here with me, not only for basketball stuff, but to help me stay focused and more ready,” Vesely said of Alilovic. “The toughest was last year, I was here almost by myself and it was just hard to come home and just think about it, you don’t have anybody to talk about that thing, that’s a professional. My family was there to support me, but . . . he understands basketball. It’s like mental support.”

---

Ves is spending time with Miro after practice doing more individual work. He is staying positive and he did what he needed to do on his own dime to continue to work on this skills and to put a support system in place so he can stay positive.

Gotta give him some props for that. What he is doing will give him a better chance to improve and be ready when his opportunity comes.

[ottomattic]

Does anyone else see Gortat straight talk to Ves during timeouts and halftime? Im sure its hard to be a disappointing draft pick in the NBA and I can see Gortat help him relax to that reality.

[nate33]

Ves is spending time with Miro after practice doing more individual work. He is staying positive and he did what he needed to do on his own dime to continue to work on this skills and to put a support system in place so he can stay positive.

Gotta give him some props for that. What he is doing will give him a better chance to improve and be ready when his opportunity comes.

That is good news. I only wish Vesely would have done this a year ago when it mattered. I don't think he realized how hard it is to succeed at this level.

He didn't get much of a chance last season because he was awful when he was on the court. His lack of playing time was completely justified. I do see some improvement this year and the gap between him and the other PF options is definitely getting smaller. He'll get some chances this year.

Unfortunately, edging out the sorry crop of PF's on this team isn't necessarily an indication of future success. He's got to become MUCH better than them.

[stevemcqueen1]

Ves is spending time with Miro after practice doing more individual work. He is staying positive and he did what he needed to do on his own dime to continue to work on this skills and to put a support system in place so he can stay positive.

Gotta give him some props for that. What he is doing will give him a better chance to improve and be ready when his opportunity comes.

That is good news. I only wish Vesely would have done this a year ago when it mattered. I don't think he realized how hard it is to succeed at this level.

He didn't get much of a chance last season because he was awful when he was on the court. His lack of playing time was completely justified. I do see some improvement this year and the gap between him and the other PF options is definitely getting smaller. He'll get some chances this year.

Unfortunately, edging out the sorry crop of PF's on this team isn't necessarily an indication of future success. He's got to become MUCH better than them.

It kills me that he had to spend his own money for this. Remember when JaVale went to management and asked for a big man coach and they told him to pay for it himself?

This is a cheapskate organization with no clue how to, or no real intention to win and compete at a top level. We'll probably never facilitate the development of our own young big man. We're going to have to get someone who can develop themselves or keep getting vets and hoping they don't regress too badly with us.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ocid=yahoo

-- Though Wittman is downplaying that Trevor Booker has made the last three starts at power forward over Jan Vesely, who started the first two games, it does matter. The Wizards are better off with Booker starting because of his hustle and energy. Vesely, though bigger at 6-11, seems more comfortable coming off the bench, not having to deal with the immediate pressure of that spotlight and being a solid rebounder. Given the issues Vesely has shown with his confidence, this could be a win-win. He can still get more regular playing time, develop and stay under the radar until he's ready to play with Wall and Bradley Beal.

NO! The Wizards are better off with Booker starting because Booker is BETTER than Vesely.

Booker is better than Vesely. However, the Wizards are 29th defensively, in part because Booker is starting.

Opponent ORtg is near 110 for his career when Booker plays. He hurts the team defense. Opponent ORtg is just under 106 when Vesely plays -- better defense than Booker's overall on/off.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01/on-off/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01/on-off/

The Wizards would be better off starting Vesely next to Gortat.

Everything I intuitively believe about basketball tells me so. Gortat is potentially a player who will get Vesely playing much better. I believe this strongly, though only on intuition. Jan's movement without the ball and the spacing would be loads better. The defense would be better than it is with Booker starting.

The Wizards IMO should start Wall, Beal, Webster, Vesely, and Gortat. Ariza and Booker would be good subs.

Vesely runs the court and does things that Booker does not have the size to do. He's also less injury prone, almost three years younger, and IMO is a better overall prospect than Booker. Trevor is a good player who IMO should be coming off the bench.

[closg00]

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/11/0 ... tsFeatured

So-many opportunities to land rotation players in that 2011 draft

[Nivek]

It's awfully reductive to blame the team's defense on Booker. They're missing their two most important defenders from last season -- Okafor and Nene. In their place, they have Gortat (a pretty average defender who doesn't know their schemes) and Booker (a meh defender who lacks size and is better suited to a reserve role). Booker is part of the problem on defense, but only part.

The bigger problem with starting Vesely, though, is that he doesn't get to just play defense. The team has to take his offensive deficiencies as well. Vesely can't improve spacing because he can't shoot. The ONLY place he needs to be defended at all is literally under the basket, and if he gets the ball there, the defense can just foul him.

Add in that Booker rebounds better on both ends of the floor, that he turns the ball over less, and that he fouls less, and whatever benefit MIGHT provide on defense goes back to the other team on offense.

Booker ought to be coming off the bench, but not for Vesely. They need to get Nene back and go from there.

[Upper Decker]

...they have Gortat (a pretty average defender who doesn't know their schemes)...

Just heard on the CBS Basketball podcast that the FG% at the rim against Gortat is 71%. For comparison purposes against Hibbert its 22%, for Brook Lopez its 26%. Not all of this falls on Marcin, but dang.

[WallTown02]

It's awfully reductive to blame the team's defense on Booker. They're missing their two most important defenders from last season -- Okafor and Nene. In their place, they have Gortat (a pretty average defender who doesn't know their schemes) and Booker (a meh defender who lacks size and is better suited to a reserve role). Booker is part of the problem on defense, but only part.

The bigger problem with starting Vesely, though, is that he doesn't get to just play defense. The team has to take his offensive deficiencies as well. Vesely can't improve spacing because he can't shoot. The ONLY place he needs to be defended at all is literally under the basket, and if he gets the ball there, the defense can just foul him.

Add in that Booker rebounds better on both ends of the floor, that he turns the ball over less, and that he fouls less, and whatever benefit MIGHT provide on defense goes back to the other team on offense.

Booker ought to be coming off the bench, but not for Vesely. They need to get Nene back and go from there.

Not that I want to be on the side defending Vesely (never a good side to be on), but I think CCJ's point is that he thinks that Vesely will be a better fit with Gortat going forward. Your third paragraph about how Booker is better is based on the past. If Vesely has improved in rebounding, turnovers, fouling, etc, than maybe he could be a better fit going forward.

My thoughts....why not give it a shot?

[WallTown02]

To piggy back on my last post.

Another way to look at this.

Last year, Nene was the offensive big and he played well with Okafor, the defender. This year, Gortat appears to be more O than D, so maybe adding a defensive big next to him would help out.

Of course once Nene is back he's with him. Unless of course Vesely actually does play well with Gortat, in which case, Nene could be the big off the bench leading the second unit (while limiting his minutes).

[dobrojim]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/washington-wizards-jan-vesely-says-he-has-something-to-prove/2013/11/05/2d0b3f8c-4671-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_story.html

also from the link above

Feeling buried for much of his time in Washington, Vesely has yet to provide anything on the court close to the amount of excitement he generated on draft night in 2011, when the Wizards took him with the sixth overall pick.

Mike Lee isn't usually this revisionist that I can remember. What excitement?
Not here certainly.

re Booker vs Ves offensively - Neither can shoot from any distance.
Booker can at least back a guy down and even at his short stature
elevate over them for a reasonably accurate jump hook.

Not sure what Ves can do offensively beside receive oops. Maybe
he's better this year than last. It would be difficult not to be at least
a little better.

[nate33]

[My thoughts....why not give it a shot?

This kind of thinking drives me crazy. It reeks of 20/20 hindsight. The implication is that Wittman knew going in that Booker would only be mediocre so he should have played Vesely instead. We only know that after the fact. At the time Randy made his decision to start Booker, Booker was the best player available for the job.

We hear this over and over from this board. When Player X has a bad game, fans scream that coach should have played Player Y. Wittman can't know ahead of time that Player X will play bad. If Wittman does in fact play Player Y and Player Y plays bad, fans will complain that he should have played Player X.