Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[Sherman Douglas]

Simple. Tobias Harris has the potential to turn into something the Bucks desperately need, a star. At least a guy who maybe makes a few all-star games. John Henson will be a good player, but I don't think he's gonna be good enough offensively to be anything special. And our frontcourt is set.

[Wooderson]

Simple. Tobias Harris has the potential to turn into something the Bucks desperately need, a star. At least a guy who maybe makes a few all-star games. John Henson will be a good player, but I don't think he's gonna be anything special.

This. We already know the Bucks will keep striving for the 8th seed. The only chance (however small) for long term improvement is for another guy to bust out like Sanders. Harris easily had the most all-star potential on this roster and if he developed that way would given the Bucks a 1-2 scoring-defense punch with him + Larry. Even if the probability is small that he turns into a 24 points on solid efficiency type guy long term, it's far better than anything else this roster offered.

[Siefer]

I think people are talking past each other. Arguing that we need a star to truly be relevant is not necessarily related to arguing that trading Tobes for Redick was a bad decision. You can believe that the trade was bad even if you only think Tobes will be solid.

Personally, I think his ceiling is 20/7/3 on good efficiency, and a couple of all-star games. Perhaps that's not the star you need to win a championship, but it moves the needle.

[AussieBuck]

Tobes showed he could score at above average efficiency in what would be described here as meaningful games, add that he will be playing in a lot of garbage games which will make scoring easier and he's also likely to play a fair bit of PF where he'll clown nearly everyone he goes against off the dribble. He could finish the season there averaging 18 points at 60TS% if he's featured there.

[CourtsideTV]

nice to see how mch you guys value tobes and think he'll be a star. i hope jj works out for u guys.

[doct3r dr3]

magic fan here, i come in peace. you guys are a thoughtful, civil and witty bunch and most team boards here could stand to learn a thing or two from you.

regarding this thing about tobias putting up numbers in garbage time in orlando, i won't deny that's true. but i also want to point out he was putting up numbers in the minutes he got in milwaukee, in what were ostensibly "meaningful" games. consider this. if you look for players with seasons with his per-minute production/percentages or better this season you're left with this list:



you'd expect a couple of flukey scrubs to sneak in on an anomalous small sample but that's it -- only a handful of good-to-great players. and these are his numbers for the whole season, with 325 of his 411 minutes coming in a bucks uniform.

[europa]

he was putting up numbers in the minutes he got in milwaukee, in what were ostensibly "meaningful" games.

This is the point some of us have been trying to make. What Harris is doing in Orlando isn't surprising because he did the same thing in Milwaukee. When he got a legitimate opportunity to play and be involved offensively he produced very well. That's why it was so frustrating when he got banished to the end of the bench and why some of us were so outraged when he was traded. It's not like he's a bum. He's produced at a very high level. All he needed was a legitimate opportunity. The sad thing is he should've gotten it in Milwaukee because they badly need a player who can do the things offensively Harris can do.

Great list BTW.

[SupremeHustle]

Last night I had a dream that Tobias scored 73 points against the Bucks.

[emunney]

These ultra specific stat searches are my favorite argument method on this board.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=22&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=17.3&c2stat=trb_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=11.8&c3stat=orb_per_mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=4.5&c4stat=blk_per_mp&c4comp=gt&c4val=1.4&c5stat=fga_per_g&c5comp=gt&c6mult=5&c6stat=tov_per_g&order_by=ws

[Nebula1]

These ultra specific stat searches are my favorite argument method on this board.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=22&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=17.3&c2stat=trb_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=11.8&c3stat=orb_per_mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=4.5&c4stat=blk_per_mp&c4comp=gt&c4val=1.4&c5stat=fga_per_g&c5comp=gt&c6mult=5&c6stat=tov_per_g&order_by=ws

still over harris.

[H2tObes]

Tobes is not going to be a star, nor does he have anything near the potential to be.

[paulpressey25]

Glad we kept Hakeem instead. But probably wouldn't have traded either.

The bigger issue is that our FO loves the swag guards. No hope after that point.

[Baddy Chuck]

Tobes is not going to be a star, nor does he have anything near the potential to be.

But what's a star? Danny Granger isn't a "star" but he's probably a top 3 player on a contender. Maybe that's top end of Tobes' potential, but he does have that type of potential.

[Nebula1]

Only hope is Kohl intends to sell and wants to get into the playoffs, therefore willing to sacrifice Harris. Yeah, I know it's not reality.

I hate Herb Kohl.

[doct3r dr3]

These ultra specific stat searches are my favorite argument method on this board.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=22&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=17.3&c2stat=trb_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=11.8&c3stat=orb_per_mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=4.5&c4stat=blk_per_mp&c4comp=gt&c4val=1.4&c5stat=fga_per_g&c5comp=gt&c6mult=5&c6stat=tov_per_g&order_by=ws

haha fair enough, but henson's gonna be really good too! between all the capspace this summer and the young talents of sanders and henson, you guys are gonna be alright, seriously. don't sweat the tobias trade.

[Baddy Chuck]

haha fair enough, but henson's gonna be really good too! between all the capspace this summer and the young talents of sanders and henson, you guys are gonna be alright, seriously. don't sweat the tobias trade.

If only cap space was an asset to this team.

[Wooderson]

Bird vs. the Dream

Round 1: Saturday March 17th @ Noon

...keep it close so it counts...

[Wooderson]

haha fair enough, but henson's gonna be really good too! between all the capspace this summer and the young talents of sanders and henson, you guys are gonna be alright, seriously. don't sweat the tobias trade.

If only cap space was an asset to this team.

If only assets were assets to this team

[H2tObes]

Tobes is not going to be a star, nor does he have anything near the potential to be.

But what's a star? Danny Granger isn't a "star" but he's probably a top 3 player on a contender. Maybe that's top end of Tobes' potential, but he does have that type of potential.

His ceiling is a top 10 PF/SF, he won't ever be able to guard SF's, just too slow of footwork. Won't be able to guard PF's well either but he'll be far better off.

The biggest gripe I have for Tobes is that he is absolutely clueless on what to do when the ball isn't in his hands. He really needs the ball in his hands to be effective. This could cause him to be a blackhole on offense, ala corey maggette.

and honestly, Maggette with better post moves, but not near the ability to get to the line may be his ceiling. He's a pretty hard player to gauge.

[mojosodope]

These ultra specific stat searches are my favorite argument method on this board.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=22&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=17.3&c2stat=trb_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=11.8&c3stat=orb_per_mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=4.5&c4stat=blk_per_mp&c4comp=gt&c4val=1.4&c5stat=fga_per_g&c5comp=gt&c6mult=5&c6stat=tov_per_g&order_by=ws

haha fair enough, but henson's gonna be really good too! between all the capspace this summer and the young talents of sanders and henson, you guys are gonna be alright, seriously. don't sweat the tobias trade.