Otto Porter

[mhd]

I think trading for Love would be foolish considering he's a west coast guy. I think he's Laker bound after next year.

[Nivek]

Love is easily a better player than Beal. Love may not be perfect, but you could certainly win with him. Give me Wall, Love, a defensive center in the Asik/Sanders mold, and a couple of spot up shooters like Webster and Ariza, and that's a team that will contend. We won't be favorites over teams with HOF caliber superstars like Miami and OKC, but then, very few teams are favorites against those types of players.

I won't deny Love is better then Beal, that is fairly obvious. Right now, and probably at Beal's peak (unless beal Surpasses projections). What I doubt is that Love is better then a moderately optimistic projection for Beal+Porter+ w/e 1st round picks you give up for him. Love's game just doesn't seem conducive to high level of advancement in the playoffs. Kind of like melo..

I'm puzzled by this. Carmelo shoots a ton, rebounds a bit and doesn't do a lot else. Love is an elite rebounder, a top-shelf 3pt shooter, he's 3rd on his team (behind two PGs) in assist percentage, his turnover rate is extremely low, and he's improved on defense. Love is both high usage AND efficient on offense, he cleans up the boards, and his team is 14 points per 100 possessions better defensively this season when he's on the floor.

I'm not seeing much of anything similar about them.

[Wizardspride]

I think trading for Love would be foolish considering he's a west coast guy. I think he's Laker bound after next year.

I agree but you never know, perhaps he'd consider playing for his dad's old team.

Anything is possible.

[montestewart]

I think trading for Love would be foolish considering he's a west coast guy. I think he's Laker bound after next year.

I agree but you never know, perhaps he'd consider playing for his dad's old team.

Anything is possible.

His dad played for two NBA teams: The Baltimore Bullets and . . . the Los Angeles Lakers. Curses!

[Wizardspride]

I think trading for Love would be foolish considering he's a west coast guy. I think he's Laker bound after next year.

I agree but you never know, perhaps he'd consider playing for his dad's old team.

Anything is possible.

His dad played for two NBA teams: The Baltimore Bullets and . . . the Los Angeles Lakers. Curses!

Yeah, but his dad named Kevin after Wes so there!

[Nivek]

This is the kind of thing that can be found out before trading for him. If Minnesota was willing to trade, they'd let the Wizards talk to Love's reps to see if he'll stay. It'd be a pretty simple negotiation, I think. Something like:

GRUNFELD: Would Kevin be willing to accept a maximum extension to play in Washington? ... Yes? Great, we'll fax over the contract and finalize the trade.

or

No? Okay, best of luck to you and Kevin.

Calls Flip and tells him the trade is off.

[payitforward]

Kevin Love is a great player, but how is Minnesota? They are .500 and that says something about his defense and shot selection. A guy who is 6-10, shooting 44.7% from the floor and doesn't block shots. Has turned himself into the ultimate stretch 4 who is a rebounding monster who is an injury-prone. I would NEVER trade Beal unless you can get a dominant big man, where there really are none out there.

Minnesota is .500 in the West while playing the league's 5th toughest schedule so far. They're 8th in scoring margin -- suggestive of a team that should have 3 more wins than they currently do. Which suggests they'll probably improve their winning percentage as the season wears on. And, they're as good as they are despite a roster that's still pretty thin.

I really like Beal. I think he's going to be a very good guard. But if the Wizards could swap him for Love, they'd be nuts not to do it.

Of course!

The only argument you could make would be that Beal is 20 -- 5 full years younger than Love. And he's ours for the next few years on a rookie contract. You can keep him and still hope to acquire either Love or a big at his level via free agency or the draft.

In any case, because of the salary discrepancy I don't see how such a trade would be possible, so I think the discussion might be theoretical, just about player quality in the abstract.

[payitforward]

...Actually, why are we even discussing a trade for Kevin Love? We don't begin to have the pieces needed to acquire him. It's kind of obvious we aren't going to trade Wall for him (not to mention that Minny has Rubio).

Assuming that we have a few guys we are very unlikely to trade now or any time soon (Wall, Beal, Porter, Webster), and a bunch of guys who have essentially no trade value whatever (Vesely, Singleton, Maynor, Temple, Seraphin, Harrington, Rice), and Gortat whom we just gave up a round 1 pick to acquire so we're not trading him, and Ariza who is expiring, and Booker who could be a piece in a trade if any of those other guys were likely to go (but they're not), that leaves Nene -- as the best candidate to be traded.

So, why no rumors about Nene? Because we're all in for mediocrity and/or because no one wants to give much for a guy whose level of play and potential minutes are on the way down.

[nuposse04]

I'm puzzled by this. Carmelo shoots a ton, rebounds a bit and doesn't do a lot else. Love is an elite rebounder, a top-shelf 3pt shooter, he's 3rd on his team (behind two PGs) in assist percentage, his turnover rate is extremely low, and he's improved on defense. Love is both high usage AND efficient on offense, he cleans up the boards, and his team is 14 points per 100 possessions better defensively this season when he's on the floor.

I'm not seeing much of anything similar about them.

Melo is prolly the wrong guy to choose, but what I mean is that he's good enough to carry you in the regular season but I don't see which parts of his game make him a legit 1st option in playoff basketball. He gets nearly 4 Offensive rebounds a game, I don't see him matching that in playoff intensity. He's not going to get as many tip-ins as he does. He isn't an elite 3 pt shooter either, he is DAMN GOOD, but he can go cold, and I'm sure running him off the line there is enough. He isn't about to beat anyone with his athleticism. From the few MINN games I been able to watch I haven't seen anything on defense that makes me think he wouldn't be a liability against a legit PF/C in the playoffs. I think Brewer being an underrated defender is a good addition and Kevin martin is an upgrade over Shved who is a travesty of a player. That and a good offense also suffices as a good defense

I'd absolutely trade Beal+1st for Love straight up. But there is no reason I have seen yet that leads me to believe he'll be a 1st option delivering a team a championship as "the man". He isn't THAT special...yet. He is still 25 afterall. I know you don't like mysynergysports but there stats there aren't encouraging on the defensive end, and he isn't a spectacular post up player either. He's a little better ISO player then I thought he'd rate to be but still, I'm not wowed.

[pancakes3]

I'm blown away by Love and it's weird to me how nobody else is as wowed as I am. He's just about the only guy in the league who's capable of leading the league in both scoring and rebounding and yet people keep going on about empty stats, poor defense, and general over-ratedness.

I think he's absolutely phenomenal and our squad, position-for-position, is just an upgraded version of the T-Wolves. I think if he came to our squad, we'd be the best team in the east come 2015-2016, Paul George be damned.

[Kanyewest]

I think the big thing that worries about Love is that he's injury prone. I hope he stays healthy though because he is fun to watch.

[nuposse04]

I'm blown away by Love and it's weird to me how nobody else is as wowed as I am. He's just about the only guy in the league who's capable of leading the league in both scoring and rebounding and yet people keep going on about empty stats, poor defense, and general over-ratedness.

I think he's absolutely phenomenal and our squad, position-for-position, is just an upgraded version of the T-Wolves. I think if he came to our squad, we'd be the best team in the east come 2015-2016, Paul George be damned.

I doubt he has it in him to lead the league in scoring. Part of his rebounding is that he puts back his own shots so often (kudos that he gets put backs but it seems like an unintentional inflationary result of this game). He is still a sub par defender.

While I agree there are some parallels between the teams Wall+Love does not equal championship. Not to say Beal+porter+'15 1st will yield a championship, but I think they have a chance to add up to enough to drive us in that direction. Trading everything that is worth a damn for Love caps your ceiling. Love isn't a top 5 player.

This is all moot though. Minn won't trade for him. If we want him it'll be the year before he's a FA, and maybe he forces his way to LAL with Westbrook and they can have years of perennial 2nd round exits together.

[pancakes3]

1 - Ok, he might not lead the league because of the machine that is Durant but he's going to be in the top 3 year in and year out. By hook, by crook, or by gimme's off offensive rebounds, those buckets count the same.

2 - There's a world's difference between sub-par defender and par defender. Just because Love isn't notable in a particular defensive category, or that he has aspects of the game he's poor at handling doesn't make him a sub-par defender. I think he's average and because he's white people give him the white-guy discount. He's certainly not worse than Dirk defensively and Dirk happens to be quite.... "adequate".

3 - I have a hard time coming up with a 5th guy in the league better than Dwight. I'd only say Lebron, Durant, CP3 and Dwight.

4 - We're certainly not going to just trot out a 2-man squad out there and say "go win us some rings". Our "pieces" to surround him would still be one of Webster/Ariza/Porter, and one of Nene/Gortat. Pair up those two with Wall/Love and it's a beastly squad.

5 - His injury weighs less in my mind than the fact that he dropped tons of baby weight, shows a desire and ability to work on his body and his game, and shows zero rust after his injury, unlike other players who have recently gone down.

6 - I understand getting Love is a pipe dream, but I also think it's petty to downplay other teams' players and pump up our players just because we don't have a shot at signing/trading for them.

7 - Otto Porter, what?

[Rafael122]

Why trade Beal for Love when the Wizards can make a run at Kevin in 2 years and have both?

[Ruzious]

Why trade Beal for Love when the Wizards can make a run at Kevin in 2 years and have both?

If you can get Love (and you can't), you do it. Besides, after his 4th year, Beal has to get paid - if he develops. Paying Wall, Love, and Beal might be problematic.

[stevemcqueen1]

I don't necessarily disagree with you pancake. I think Love is pretty great now.

But I do think he's a worse defender than Dirk was when he was an MVP. Love is a way better defender than he used to be. But he used to be completely useless.

I think this year marks a big difference from the past with Love. He's better than he's ever been before, by a lot. He's actually capable of leading a winning team now IMO. He's playing better situational basketball and playing more complete games for four quarters and doing so more regularly. Or at least more so than he was before. He's still not winning like an elite player but he's getting there.

In the past, I definitely think there was some emptiness to his play and that he didn't compare favorably to Dirk. His teams lost. A bunch. You can't be a supposed top player and have your team finish with the worst record in the NBA that season, but it happened for Love in 2011. Contrast that to Dirk, whose teams have only finished below .500 his first two years. He's only missed the palyoffs three times, and last year he was hurt for most of the season. His teams have won 64% of their regular season games and 13 playoff series. And he's never played on power teams, pretty much always been the sole star, including the year he beat a dynasty Miami team for a championship. Dirk wins.

So I think the proof is in the pudding that there is an important qualitative difference between the way Dirk and Love play and the effect it has on wins and losses.

[stevemcqueen1]

Why trade Beal for Love when the Wizards can make a run at Kevin in 2 years and have both?

If you can get Love (and you can't), you do it. Besides, after his 4th year, Beal has to get paid - if he develops. Paying Wall, Love, and Beal might be problematic.

If we were fortunate enough to have all three of those guys, you gladly pay whatever it takes to keep them. They'd make you far more money than you could possibly spend on them.

[Rafael122]

Why trade Beal for Love when the Wizards can make a run at Kevin in 2 years and have both?

If you can get Love (and you can't), you do it. Besides, after his 4th year, Beal has to get paid - if he develops. Paying Wall, Love, and Beal might be problematic.

Ted's never paid the tax, and at that point, he wouldn't be a repeat offender so the penalties won't be as harsh. And Nene would be in the last year of his contract. A lot of $ tied into 3 players, but you hope between now and then, the team is constructed in a way that they'll still be able to compete. It's all a pipe dream anyway.

[stevemcqueen1]

While I agree there are some parallels between the teams Wall+Love does not equal championship. Not to say Beal+porter+'15 1st will yield a championship, but I think they have a chance to add up to enough to drive us in that direction. Trading everything that is worth a damn for Love caps your ceiling. Love isn't a top 5 player.

I'm doubtful that Wall + Love alone would be enough to legitimately contend. I don't think either are consistently dominant enough, both have a tendency to disappear and require their supporting cast to lift up the team. Both put up crazy individual stats and make spectacular plays. But both occasionally struggle with the situational basketball that leads to wins. And as a result, neither have been able to lift teams up to winning mostly on their own like other franchise players.

But I do think Wall/Beal/Love would be enough to contend.

I don't think you need another superstar to actually contend with a Wall / Love foundation. But it would be awfully nice. And if you had Wall, Beal, and Love, you would be able to overwhelm teams with your talent. All of them in their prime around the same time. You wouldn't be able to guard a team with those three.

Without Beal, you'd need really really good role players to buttress the roster. Guys like healthy Nene or Noah. Building that kind of team would be challenging in it's own right, especially with Love making super max money next contract.

I would LOVE to get Kevin Love in free agency in a couple years. He's probably the player I want most for us after Durant. Don't think it's realistic though. I don't know if he stays in Minnesota, maybe not if they keep missing the postseason. But we haven't heard a single thing about him even contemplating us as a potential destination.

[nuposse04]

1 - Ok, he might not lead the league because of the machine that is Durant but he's going to be in the top 3 year in and year out. By hook, by crook, or by gimme's off offensive rebounds, those buckets count the same.

2 - There's a world's difference between sub-par defender and par defender. Just because Love isn't notable in a particular defensive category, or that he has aspects of the game he's poor at handling doesn't make him a sub-par defender. I think he's average and because he's white people give him the white-guy discount. He's certainly not worse than Dirk defensively and Dirk happens to be quite.... "adequate".

3 - I have a hard time coming up with a 5th guy in the league better than Dwight. I'd only say Lebron, Durant, CP3 and Dwight.

4 - We're certainly not going to just trot out a 2-man squad out there and say "go win us some rings". Our "pieces" to surround him would still be one of Webster/Ariza/Porter, and one of Nene/Gortat. Pair up those two with Wall/Love and it's a beastly squad.

5 - His injury weighs less in my mind than the fact that he dropped tons of baby weight, shows a desire and ability to work on his body and his game, and shows zero rust after his injury, unlike other players who have recently gone down.

6 - I understand getting Love is a pipe dream, but I also think it's petty to downplay other teams' players and pump up our players just because we don't have a shot at signing/trading for them.

7 - Otto Porter, what?

1. I think Durant/Melo and eventually Jabari Parker will have the scoring load on lockdown. I'd be surprised to see Love ever in top 3. Doesn't matter tho, its a nominal title and he still puts in what? 25.5 efficient points. That is still elite.

2. Agree to disagree, he's sub par in my book, then again I'm going off mysyngery sports and my "eye test"

3. Uhhh, how bout Tony parker? Paul George? Hell even LMA this season (I think the fact he has a semblance of a post game will pay massive dividends in the playoffs. He's a top 10 guy, top 5 guys can will their team to contender status.

4. You wouldn't have Porter or Gortat in any scenario I think. Unless Min actually took nene back, which I doubt. Outside of Wall none of those guys are particularly outstanding at getting their own shot. We'd be banking on GR JR to really pay divdends as well. AND drafting well. With EG at the helm...wel

5. don't think injuries matter much to me either, that seemed like a freak occurrence. He isn't a high flyer either he isn't going to be putting himself in many situations where I'd be concerned.

6. I've always been skeptical on Love. Simply don't believe in Love. He better not get a free pass this season. His team is relatively healthy. He has to make the playoffs. And if he's a legit top 5 player I expect a 2nd round experience. He can't be catapulted into that status until he can show he can lead a team there. I love his fantasy stats but he's a loser until he gets his team to do otherwise. Just like like everyone on our team.

7. What about Porter? He sucks right now but if you make blanket judgements about a rookie whose missed all of preseason/training camp/1 month of regular season you probably aren't giving him a fair shake.