2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[8516knicks]

Are we trading up or not?

Too early to tell it seems they are working out guys who will probably be available with our second round pick

Might this indicate the other 2 will be moving elsewhere in a deal? Doubt they could be so locked in on earlier picks (19&21 or higher) when we don't know who other teams will take.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Looks like Bones Hyland had his workout with the Knicks today via his IG story. Even tagged IQ in it

i have to check him out more. Whats your scouting report on Bones?

[dukeknicksirish]

Looks like Bones Hyland had his workout with the Knicks today via his IG story. Even tagged IQ in it

i have to check him out more. Whats your scouting report on Bones?

Just after a quick google search on stats / highlight film, he looks like a taller/lengthier IQ . Shoots it well in transition, flashy passer, good in the open court and can score well off the dribble during Isolations .

I did notice however , that his 2 games against Power5 level talent, he didn't perform well shooting the ball. That could be because he was forcing shots in order for them to win or possibly being double teamed, but right off the eye test on stats, that wasn't too reassuring . I need to watch game film on those to get a better idea myself, but looks like a very good iso/transition threat .

[3toheadmelo]

Looks like Bones Hyland had his workout with the Knicks today via his IG story. Even tagged IQ in it

i have to check him out more. Whats your scouting report on Bones?

Super saiyan IQ. 6’3 but has very long arms (no reported wingspan yet but his arms make him look much taller than his actual height). Incredible shot creator. Can hit ridiculous jumpers off the dribble from super deep, has a nasty step back jumper. Can make regular layups unlike IQ. He’s in the 85th percentile in ISO (or something like that). Defense is a mixed bag and he is more of 2 guard than point. Very skinny and needs to get stronger. Bones played in the A10 so he is low key. Even though he played against weaker competition, his skills should translate. It’s not like Obi where he is bodying smaller players. He is one of the most skilled guards in the draft imo.

I could be overrating him but i like having hot takes lol. I think he is a lottery talent. He was going to play in the tournament and then the game got canceled cause of covid. Smh. Probably a blessing in disguise for us cause probably would’ve showed off in the tournament and we would have no shot of him.

This is your 3toheadmelo scouting report

[Celo]

I hope so. I like him more than someone like Davion Mitchell offensively and playmaking wise. Dude can snake, has handle, height. I hope he don’t shoot up draft boards. ESPN recently updated their big board and he’s in the top 20. Think he’s mocked to us at 19 actually,

I know the rumor now is the Knicks want to trade up for more proven ready talent but I think we can get proven ready guys at both 19 & 21. Draft is that deep. Once the workouts happen and all that combine visits and stuff flow through, I think our picks will get more value because teams in the mid to late lottery will wanna move back for a chance at more guys. PLUS we got 32.
Own fans undervaluing the picks but we’re in great shape.

If we don’t trade up for a pure scorer like Bouknight, get me Ayo at 19 or 21 and then draft another scoring wing cause Ayo can run Point. Go into the summer in business. Not in panic mode because worst case with the PG position, we bring Rose back to start and Ayo be the backup.

Don't mean to be disrespectful, but have you actually seen full games of Ayo, or just highlight tapes? Because to me, his handle is not a strength but a weakness. Yes, he does have a very nice crossover, but that doesn't equal to a good handle. That is also a reason why I'd bet a healthy amount of money against him being a full time PG. He'd look much better in a role where he can attack a bended D from the weak side. The thing is: This draft offers plenty of combo Gs like this: Tre, Bones, Butler may even count Bouknight as well just to name a few. And while Ayo's probably the best/most versatile defender, I feel like the offensive upside for all of the mentioned players is higher. I've said it before, value wise the best play is probably to get Bones with our early 2nd round pick - if he'll be available ofc. If that's not in play, then my call would be Tre. Because if you wanna talk about someone having a handle, it's him (and Butler ofc, not that I offend his fans in here ).

In my humble opinion, Ayo has a good handle. And yes, I’ve seen full games of his. At least in the games I saw, he was running the point like a true point guard and was able to get anywhere on the court. Bouknight is still my main target but I would be happy with Tre Mann, Ayo Dosunmo as backup options. I’ve started to see some mocks that have Bones going in the first round and I’m thinking maybe we should just take him with the 21st pick just to be safe. If he played in the tournament, his stock would’ve went up massively

Maybe I've just seen the wrong games? Lol idk. Since there isn't a common definition of a good handle that's obviously very subjective. But for me, his handle is too high and loose, he struggled bringing the ball up sometimes, got reached in plenty and especially struggled in tight spaces under pressure. I'm not saying he's a bad ballhandler per se, I just feel like there are better options in that regard.

Talking about Bouknight: What role do you see him playing for us? I've been very high on him, but after catching some more games I cooled off a bit on him. I'm not sure how much of an On-Ball role he could play, at least right out of the gate - a thing I initially would've trusted him to do, but after some more tape watching I'm at least questioning it.

[Celo]

Looks like Bones Hyland had his workout with the Knicks today via his IG story. Even tagged IQ in it

i have to check him out more. Whats your scouting report on Bones?

Super saiyan IQ. 6’3 but has very long arms (no reported wingspan yet but his arms make him look much taller than his actual height). Incredible shot creator. Can hit ridiculous jumpers off the dribble from super deep, has a nasty step back jumper. Can make regular layups unlike IQ. He’s in the 85th percentile in ISO (or something like that). Defense is a mixed bag and he is more of 2 guard than point. Very skinny and needs to get stronger. Bones played in the A10 so he is low key. Even though he played against weaker competition, his skills should translate. It’s not like Obi where he is bodying smaller players. He is one of the most skilled guards in the draft imo.

I could be overrating him but i like having hot takes lol. I think he is a lottery talent. He was going to play in the tournament and then the game got canceled cause of covid. Smh. Probably a blessing in disguise for us cause probably would’ve showed off in the tournament and we would have no shot of him.

This is your 3toheadmelo scouting report

Hope you don't mind if I add some things why I'm very high on him

1) He has infinite range, some of his makes (and they're off the dribble!) are ridiculous. Plus he showed some flashes of shooting of Off-Ball movement

And 2) he's a surprisngly good finisher for his size/frame. Granted, it's the A10 so you gotta factor that in, but that was definitely something that has really surprised me when I saw him play.

[3toheadmelo]

Don't mean to be disrespectful, but have you actually seen full games of Ayo, or just highlight tapes? Because to me, his handle is not a strength but a weakness. Yes, he does have a very nice crossover, but that doesn't equal to a good handle. That is also a reason why I'd bet a healthy amount of money against him being a full time PG. He'd look much better in a role where he can attack a bended D from the weak side. The thing is: This draft offers plenty of combo Gs like this: Tre, Bones, Butler may even count Bouknight as well just to name a few. And while Ayo's probably the best/most versatile defender, I feel like the offensive upside for all of the mentioned players is higher. I've said it before, value wise the best play is probably to get Bones with our early 2nd round pick - if he'll be available ofc. If that's not in play, then my call would be Tre. Because if you wanna talk about someone having a handle, it's him (and Butler ofc, not that I offend his fans in here ).

In my humble opinion, Ayo has a good handle. And yes, I’ve seen full games of his. At least in the games I saw, he was running the point like a true point guard and was able to get anywhere on the court. Bouknight is still my main target but I would be happy with Tre Mann, Ayo Dosunmo as backup options. I’ve started to see some mocks that have Bones going in the first round and I’m thinking maybe we should just take him with the 21st pick just to be safe. If he played in the tournament, his stock would’ve went up massively

Maybe I've just seen the wrong games? Lol idk. Since there isn't a common definition of a good handle that's obviously very subjective. But for me, his handle is too high and loose, he struggled bringing the ball up sometimes, got reached in plenty and especially struggled in tight spaces under pressure. I'm not saying he's a bad ballhandler per se, I just feel like there are better options in that regard.

Talking about Bouknight: What role do you see him playing for us? I've been very high on him, but after catching some more games I cooled off a bit on him. I'm not sure how much of an On-Ball role he could play, at least right out of the gate - a thing I initially would've trusted him to do, but after some more tape watching I'm at least questioning it.

To be fair I’ve only seen like 3 games of Ayo so my opinion of him could be very off lol but he looked really fantastic in those games I saw of him

I see Bouknight playing the Burks role of the bench for us right now and eventually becoming our starter. I don’t expect ROY numbers cause his handle is still a bit loose and needs some work.

When it comes to off the ball, actually I think he has a lot of potential there. Check out this very in depth breakdown about Bouknight. Goes into detail about him off the ball, on the ball, playmaking, etc. Some great stuff here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indycornrows.com/platform/amp/2021/6/8/22451227/james-bouknight-and-the-art-of-off-ball-movement

[WargamesX]

Are we trading up or not?

Too early to tell it seems they are working out guys who will probably be available with our second round pick

Might this indicate the other 2 will be moving elsewhere in a deal? Doubt they could be so locked in on earlier picks (19&21 or higher) when we don't know who other teams will take.

Not exactly, honestly not at all.

The Knicks historically are a franchise that pays more for scouting than most teams (which still leads to mixed results). At 19 and 21 if they started reviewing guys too early other teams would zero in on their list and invite them as well. The best thing would be to wait until after the combine (like they normally do) and then have those guys they think would be the picks at 19 or 21 come in because other franchises will already have a list made and not be so zeroed in on what they are doing.

Also, the draft eligible NCAA deadline gives a lot of college players a chance to go through the draft combine (June 21-27) and watch the lottery (June 22) unfold before making a final decision on their basketball future. The guys that most teams are looking at now are guys who might go back to school unless they get feedback to stay in. The guys who are likely going 1-40 will be there to work out later because they probably aren't going back to school. In some cases, this is also a chance to work out guys who might be better next year so they can see them now and get a better picture of their development. Considering the Knicks have a pick at #32, I think that is in play as well. Now if a kid comes in and kills it I also could see them deciding to take them at 19 or 21. However, this is probably all for pick #32, and data gathering for next year.

[DowNY]

Are we trading up or not?

Too early to tell it seems they are working out guys who will probably be available with our second round pick

Might this indicate the other 2 will be moving elsewhere in a deal? Doubt they could be so locked in on earlier picks (19&21 or higher) when we don't know who other teams will take.

Good thinking
Guys are definitely going to fall also

[KJStark23]

Watch on YouTube

Potential sleepers mentioned in this breakdown:
-Trey Murphy
-Matthew Hurt
-Chris Duarte
-Charles Bassey
-Austin Reaves
-Sandro Mamukelashvili
-Neemis Queta
-Quentin Grimes
-Bones Hyland
-Santi Aldama

[8516knicks]

I don't think anyone is sleeping on Duarte; never seen him out of the first round and often around #20. Murphy's gotten a lot of good reports online also. Basey, old school center but reliable for backup. M. Hurt supposedly bad D will keep him undrafted.

[-YogiBiz-]

So if we keep #32, (I also wouldn't be mad if we took him @ #19 or #21) I think we should take a hard look at Vrenz Bleijenbergh.

Strengths are:
+ 6'10" Point Forward with solid handles (really good for someone his size),
+ Really Good Athlete (Blows by other people his size and even some guys much smaller than he is)
+ Beautiful looking Jump Shot (Picturesque upper body form with a insanely quick release although he slightly turns his lower body to the left when he comes down and you would maybe like to see him stay square)
+ Is a natural shooter, able to hit shots from all over the three point line (Although he is money from the Right Wing and tries to work his off-ball movement to get him there mostly
+ A really talented playmaker can get into the lane with either hand (although he favors his right)
+ His size really give him a plus when making passes
+ Really good vision, Vrenz makes advanced reads off the PnR some point wont ever see (He also loves backdoor cutters and rarely ever misses a cut that would lead to the basket) and he is really good at running the PnR.
+ Quality defender (Vrenz is tasked with guarding guys much smaller than he is, and he has shown the ability to absolutely smother smaller players with his quickness and size)
+ Really high BBIQ
+ Really good timing on Weakside blocks and blocks in general. Knows how to maximize his size and length on D.
+ Finishes well with either hand
+ Really active on the defensive glass

Weaknesses are:
- Not strong and barely has any muscle on his frame (Should add weight/muscle in a NBA S&C Program; is listed in )
- Avoids contact (Wont go head first into traffic and to get a layup, but I think that goes hand in hand with his first weak spot)
- Shooting Consistency (More game reps will help with this issue as will fixing that small hiccup at the end of his jumpshot)
- For someone as skilled with the ball as he is you'd like to see him draw more fouls (Although in each of the past two seasons he's really made a jump in that regard and only looks to get better)
- Not an efficient scorer yet (But he's a 20 yo getting quality playing time the Belgium League (EuroMillions) and Euro Cup Basketball, and you can see the bases of a guy who can go out and give you 15-20 on good splits)


Hopefully he remains an unknown because for the life of me, I can't see why someone wouldn't take a chance on him in the teens over guys like Kispert/Duarte/Thomas or other guys who're limited upside wise. With Vrenz you can see the bases of an NBA All-Star, but his floor IMO is an elite glue guy who can contribute in just about every facet of the game.

[8516knicks]

So if we keep #32, (I also wouldn't be mad if we took him @ #19 or #21) I think we should take a hard look at Vrenz Bleijenbergh.

Strengths are:
+ 6'10" Point Forward with solid handles (really good for someone his size),
+ Really Good Athlete (Blows by other people his size and even some guys much smaller than he is)
+ Beautiful looking Jump Shot (Picturesque upper body form with a insanely quick release although he slightly turns his lower body to the left when he comes down and you would maybe like to see him stay square)
+ Is a natural shooter, able to hit shots from all over the three point line (Although he is money from the Right Wing and tries to work his off-ball movement to get him there mostly
+ A really talented playmaker can get into the lane with either hand (although he favors his right)
+ His size really give him a plus when making passes
+ Really good vision, Vrenz makes advanced reads off the PnR some point wont ever see (He also loves backdoor cutters and rarely ever misses a cut that would lead to the basket) and he is really good at running the PnR.
+ Quality defender (Vrenz is tasked with guarding guys much smaller than he is, and he has shown the ability to absolutely smother smaller players with his quickness and size)
+ Really high BBIQ
+ Really good timing on Weakside blocks and blocks in general. Knows how to maximize his size and length on D.
+ Finishes well with either hand
+ Really active on the defensive glass

Weaknesses are:
- Not strong and barely has any muscle on his frame (Should add weight/muscle in a NBA S&C Program; is listed in )
- Avoids contact (Wont go head first into traffic and to get a layup, but I think that goes hand in hand with his first weak spot)
- Shooting Consistency (More game reps will help with this issue as will fixing that small hiccup at the end of his jumpshot)
- For someone as skilled with the ball as he is you'd like to see him draw more fouls (Although in each of the past two seasons he's really made a jump in that regard and only looks to get better)
- Not an efficient scorer yet (But he's a 20 yo getting quality playing time the Belgium League (EuroMillions) and Euro Cup Basketball, and you can see the bases of a guy who can go out and give you 15-20 on good splits)


Hopefully he remains an unknown because for the life of me, I can't see why someone wouldn't take a chance on him in the teens over guys like Kispert/Duarte/Thomas or other guys who're limited upside wise. With Vrenz you can see the bases of an NBA All-Star, but his floor IMO is an elite glue guy who can contribute in just about every facet of the game.

He'd make a lot of sense for us as a draft-n-stash since Thibs won't play him anyway. But down the road could be something.

[HarthorneWingo]

Too early to tell it seems they are working out guys who will probably be available with our second round pick

Might this indicate the other 2 will be moving elsewhere in a deal? Doubt they could be so locked in on earlier picks (19&21 or higher) when we don't know who other teams will take.

Good thinking

Guys are definitely going to fall also

But if we're going to trade the 2 FRPs, don't you want to camouflage our actions so that we don't appear desperate or resigned. We should be exploring all options at this point.

[DowNY]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944297-2021-nba-mock-draft-lottery-simulation-and-full-2-round-results?share=other

New Jon Wass mock

Gives us Sharife & Duarte but only because he’s not doing trades in his mock at this time. Says he expects the Knicks to trade up. Doesn’t see them bringing in too many rookies. 2 at most.

Bouknight goes 13 but says he hears GMs loves him and likens his scoring potential to Booker & D Mitchell. Could see him rising into top 10 if a team fails in love.

Ayo goes 28.
Miles McBride goes 29.

Knicks draft Bassey over BJ Boston in round 2

Bones goes 49......to the Nets

[WargamesX]

Might this indicate the other 2 will be moving elsewhere in a deal? Doubt they could be so locked in on earlier picks (19&21 or higher) when we don't know who other teams will take.

Good thinking

Guys are definitely going to fall also

But if we're going to trade the 2 FRPs, don't you want to camouflage our actions so that we don't appear desperate or resigned. We should be exploring all options at this point.

Exactly! We and opposing FO shouldn’t be able to tell what the Knicks FO moves will be until they make them. working out these guy who will be there at pick #32 is the league wide move right now. Guys in our 19-21 range won’t be invited until after the combine, and if they are snuck in they’ll probably ask them to be discreet.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Read on Twitter

nice

[Knicksfan1992]

Jared Butler gives me serious Kemba vibes. Maybe not the same devastating space creation off the dribble. But dude is a serious pull up threat with a great handle and makes tough/big shots. I love the pace and stop/start ability he has in the half court and I think with time he's going to learn how to draw more fouls to be even more efficient. And he gets after it at the defensive end. I think I'd have him in my top 10 as of now. Ahead of guys like Kispert, Wagner, Cooper and Moody for sure. If we decide traditional PG he's the guy I want.

[-YogiBiz-]

So if we keep #32, (I also wouldn't be mad if we took him @ #19 or #21) I think we should take a hard look at Vrenz Bleijenbergh.

Strengths are:
+ 6'10" Point Forward with solid handles (really good for someone his size),
+ Really Good Athlete (Blows by other people his size and even some guys much smaller than he is)
+ Beautiful looking Jump Shot (Picturesque upper body form with a insanely quick release although he slightly turns his lower body to the left when he comes down and you would maybe like to see him stay square)
+ Is a natural shooter, able to hit shots from all over the three point line (Although he is money from the Right Wing and tries to work his off-ball movement to get him there mostly
+ A really talented playmaker can get into the lane with either hand (although he favors his right)
+ His size really give him a plus when making passes
+ Really good vision, Vrenz makes advanced reads off the PnR some point wont ever see (He also loves backdoor cutters and rarely ever misses a cut that would lead to the basket) and he is really good at running the PnR.
+ Quality defender (Vrenz is tasked with guarding guys much smaller than he is, and he has shown the ability to absolutely smother smaller players with his quickness and size)
+ Really high BBIQ
+ Really good timing on Weakside blocks and blocks in general. Knows how to maximize his size and length on D.
+ Finishes well with either hand
+ Really active on the defensive glass

Weaknesses are:
- Not strong and barely has any muscle on his frame (Should add weight/muscle in a NBA S&C Program; is listed in )
- Avoids contact (Wont go head first into traffic and to get a layup, but I think that goes hand in hand with his first weak spot)
- Shooting Consistency (More game reps will help with this issue as will fixing that small hiccup at the end of his jumpshot)
- For someone as skilled with the ball as he is you'd like to see him draw more fouls (Although in each of the past two seasons he's really made a jump in that regard and only looks to get better)
- Not an efficient scorer yet (But he's a 20 yo getting quality playing time the Belgium League (EuroMillions) and Euro Cup Basketball, and you can see the bases of a guy who can go out and give you 15-20 on good splits)


Hopefully he remains an unknown because for the life of me, I can't see why someone wouldn't take a chance on him in the teens over guys like Kispert/Duarte/Thomas or other guys who're limited upside wise. With Vrenz you can see the bases of an NBA All-Star, but his floor IMO is an elite glue guy who can contribute in just about every facet of the game.

He'd make a lot of sense for us as a draft-n-stash since Thibs won't play him anyway. But down the road could be something.

Idk I think he could be an actual contributor as a rookie. He’d have to play the “hit open shots and and play defense role off the bench” that Thibs was trying to give to Knox early in the year.

[EMG518]

This is a stacked draft so we better come out of it with some dudes.

I don't know where people are mocked but I haven't heard anything about DJ Carton so hopefully we get him with one of our picks.