Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[BoogieTime]

Saw this on the Trade Board:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-ben-simmons-trade-rumors-joel-embiid-tyrese-haliburton-deaaron-fox-analysis-latest/


This is screaming out to involve the Wizards and Beal in a 3-way trade:

Beal to Philly
Simmons to Sacramento
Fox and Haliburton to Washington

EDIT:
Hmmm. Sacramento might be giving up too much here.

How about:
Beal to Philly
Simmons to SAC
Hield, Haliburton and a SAC 1st to Washington

Fox and Haliburton, or did you mean one or the other?

The reason you would prefer Hali to Simmons is why I would. He has franchise playmaker skill, with some elite PG attributes in transition and pick and roll. He was putting up 20/10+ while playing without Fox this year. Hid efficiency and advanced stats are pluses. The fact that he will be a RFA the year before Simmons will be UFA for Sac is big. Simmons has no individual offense or half court offense, his impact on the game is very questionable

Morey wanting that has no bearing on how close a trade that is.

But its interesting how Simmons would fit in Washington in a Beal maneuver. Simmons is such an odd player that its hard to predict how he would perform on a different team. His value though is going down by the day.

I still think some kind 3 way where Beal goes to Philly, Simmons to sac, and Mitchel, halliburton and springer and stuff coming out way.


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Haliburton is the best asset in the deal. Why is Sacramento adding? Hali is who the Kings should build around

If there is a three way between the teams it will be Fox, but even then Simmons is a curious player and that would take some thought from Sacramento as to why Fox has played the way he has this year. He has played better lately.

[nate33]

Fox and Haliburton, or did you mean one or the other?

The reason you would prefer Hali to Simmons is why I would. He has franchise playmaker skill, with some elite PG attributes in transition and pick and roll. He was putting up 20/10+ while playing without Fox this year. Hid efficiency and advanced stats are pluses. The fact that he will be a RFA the year before Simmons will be UFA for Sac is big. Simmons has no individual offense or half court offense, his impact on the game is very questionable

Morey wanting that has no bearing on how close a trade that is.

But its interesting how Simmons would fit in Washington in a Beal maneuver. Simmons is such an odd player that its hard to predict how he would perform on a different team. His value though is going down by the day.

I still think some kind 3 way where Beal goes to Philly, Simmons to sac, and Mitchel, halliburton and springer and stuff coming out way.


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Haliburton is the best asset in the deal. Why is Sacramento adding? Hali is who the Kings should build around

If there is a three way between the teams it will be Fox, but even then Simmons is a curious player and that would take some thought from Sacramento as to why Fox has played the way he has this year. He has played better lately.

I like Haliburton, but he is still a fairly low usage player. It's far from a sure thing that he'll pan out to be a star. He might just be a quality starter. Simmons is a 3-time All-Star.

But I'm not going to argue with you about it. If you don't like the deal, you don't like the deal.

[Frichuela]

Instead of contemplating any Grant trades, and assuming they are hell bent on not trading Beal, Tommy should be looking to address our biggest need at the trade deadline: a reliable 3rd guard so Neto and Holiday are glued to the bench where they belong.

Ideally:
Kuzma for Derrick White.
or
Kuzma for Coby White, DJones Jr + POR 1st (Lottery Protected).

Other (less preferable) iterations: Bryant + Rui for Derrick White or Rui for Coby White.

[Ruzious]

Instead of contemplating any Grant trades, and assuming they are hell bent on not trading Beal, Tommy should be looking to address our biggest need at the trade deadline: a reliable 3rd guard so Neto and Holiday are glued to the bench where they belong.

Ideally:
Kuzma for Derrick White.
or
Kuzma for Coby White, DJones Jr + POR 1st (Lottery Protected).

Other (less preferable) iterations: Bryant + Rui for Derrick White or Rui for Coby White.

If Coby White plays like he does against the Wiz (usually with Neto "guarding" him), then YES! Otherwise, meh. Actually, he does make sense, but the problem is - we're going to end up over-paying for him when he signs an RFA contract after next season. I would bet on that happening. I'd rather have Ayo, tbh - even though he's behind Coby. When I've watched him, Chicago's playing Ayo at the 2, and his natural position is 1. Ayo and Coby are about the same size, but Ayo has much longer arms. I think that's going to help make him a terrific defender.

[BoogieTime]

I still think some kind 3 way where Beal goes to Philly, Simmons to sac, and Mitchel, halliburton and springer and stuff coming out way.


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Haliburton is the best asset in the deal. Why is Sacramento adding? Hali is who the Kings should build around

If there is a three way between the teams it will be Fox, but even then Simmons is a curious player and that would take some thought from Sacramento as to why Fox has played the way he has this year. He has played better lately.

I like Haliburton, but he is still a fairly low usage player. It's far from a sure thing that he'll pan out to be a star. He might just be a quality starter. Simmons is a 3-time All-Star.

But I'm not going to argue with you about it. If you don't like the deal, you don't like the deal.

I see your point of view. I think the issue is more the usage without Fox this year for a lot of Kings fans, when he has put up 20/10+ and has looked a bonafide franchise playmaker. He defers to Fox and they are an awkward fit

[FAH1223]

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[Frichuela]

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Thank the Lord for the Stepien rule!

Now, this would not stop Tommy from trading Deni+Rui+Bryant for say Grant...I hope he sees better than that. So far, he has not done any Grunfeld trades of the sort...so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

[nate33]

Instead of contemplating any Grant trades, and assuming they are hell bent on not trading Beal, Tommy should be looking to address our biggest need at the trade deadline: a reliable 3rd guard so Neto and Holiday are glued to the bench where they belong.

Ideally:
Kuzma for Derrick White.
or
Kuzma for Coby White, DJones Jr + POR 1st (Lottery Protected).

Other (less preferable) iterations: Bryant + Rui for Derrick White or Rui for Coby White.

I'd definitely trade Kuzma for Derrick White. That's an absolute talent upgrade.

I'd do the second deal for the Portland pick more so than for Coby White. But if we are trading current pieces for the future, we should also be thinking hard about trading Beal.

[payitforward]

... the 9 guys you list above, nate, cost us over $140m next year. ....

I don't see the problem. Those guys are nowhere near $140M.

Beal $42M
Sabonis $20M
Dinwiddie $18M
Bertans $16M
KCP $14M
Avdija $5M
Kispert $3.5M
Gafford $2M
Holiday ?

That's just $121M plus Holiday. The luxtax will be something like $145M

Sabonis is under contract at $20M per until Summer 2024
Gafford gets a big pay raise in Summer 2023, tacking on another $10M, but that's still under the cap....

Aaah... I thought Gafford's new contract began next season. My bad. & I hadn't pegged the luxtax that high either.

[FAH1223]

... the 9 guys you list above, nate, cost us over $140m next year. ....

I don't see the problem. Those guys are nowhere near $140M.

Beal $42M
Sabonis $20M
Dinwiddie $18M
Bertans $16M
KCP $14M
Avdija $5M
Kispert $3.5M
Gafford $2M
Holiday ?

That's just $121M plus Holiday. The luxtax will be something like $145M

Sabonis is under contract at $20M per until Summer 2024
Gafford gets a big pay raise in Summer 2023, tacking on another $10M, but that's still under the cap....

Aaah... I thought Gafford's new contract began next season. My bad. & I hadn't pegged the luxtax that high either.

By 2025 the salary cap will be pushing $140M. Wonder what the next TV deal with TNT and Disney (or even more broadcast networks) will look like.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We have too many forwards guys, now with Rui back it's a problem.

How about this trade:

Beal, Bertans, Hachimura to the Hawks for John Collins, Danilo Gallinari (to be waived), and Skylar Mays

Basically, consolidate Davis and Rui into a better PF, Collins; while dumping lots of salary as Danilo comes off the books. NO SUPERMAX for Beal.

[80sballboy]

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?s=20

[nate33]

We have too many forwards guys, now with Rui back it's a problem.

How about this trade:

Beal, Bertans, Hachimura to the Hawks for John Collins, Danilo Gallinari (to be waived), and Skylar Mays

Basically, consolidate Davis and Rui into a better PF, Collins; while dumping lots of salary as Danilo comes off the books. NO SUPERMAX for Beal.

If we are trading Beal, I wouldn't cheapen the return by including Bertans' negative salary. If Beal is gone, we are rebuilding anyhow. What's the rush in dumping Bertans' salary?

I'm also not thrilled about the best guy coming back in the deal being John Collins - a guy who plays our deepest position.

I also don't see Atlanta trading their best big for another guard when they already have Trae, Bogdanovic and Huerter.

Bottom line: this trade isn't nearly as good as Beal straight up for Simmons. And I think we could probably get Simmons plus a 1st in a Philly deal.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

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?s=20

I would consider something like Bertans, Deni, Todd, Winston.

Deni for Grant is the main swap, we get the guy in his prime, Detroit gets the younger upside player... Better fit for where respective teams are and their current goals. Washington dumps bad contract Bertans. Todd is a upside add in. Winston gets opportunity back home.b

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7510504

[gambitx777]

I mean I don't wanna trade deni I like him. I think he has the skills to be **** great!


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[9 and 20]

If we're trading Deni and Rui and Kispert or anyone else who has shown some promise along with draft picks, I'd rather go after Sabonis than Grant.

Sabonis is just better and, if the Beal thing blows up and he wants to leave, I'd rather start over with Sabonis. I know the fit is less ideal, but they can work around that. The downside of maybe getting stuck with a roster led by Grant, Kuzma, and Dinwiddie looks pretty bad.

[Frichuela]

If we're trading Deni and Rui and Kispert or anyone else who has shown some promise along with draft picks, I'd rather go after Sabonis than Grant.

Sabonis is just better and, if the Beal thing blows up and he wants to leave, I'd rather start over with Sabonis. I know the fit is less ideal, but they can work around that. The downside of maybe getting stuck with a roster led by Grant, Kuzma, and Dinwiddie looks pretty bad.

Agreed. Sabonis is a much more appealing building block than Grant. Chalk and cheese!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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I would consider something like Bertans, Deni, Todd, Winston.

Deni for Grant is the main swap, we get the guy in his prime, Detroit gets the younger upside player... Better fit for where respective teams are and their current goals. Washington dumps bad contract Bertans. Todd is a upside add in. Winston gets opportunity back home.b

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7510504

Myopic treadmill trade. Grant is good but Deni is 21 and potentially very good. Advija defends and passes well. Don't undervalue that.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If we're trading Deni and Rui and Kispert or anyone else who has shown some promise along with draft picks, I'd rather go after Sabonis than Grant.

Sabonis is just better and, if the Beal thing blows up and he wants to leave, I'd rather start over with Sabonis. I know the fit is less ideal, but they can work around that. The downside of maybe getting stuck with a roster led by Grant, Kuzma, and Dinwiddie looks pretty bad.

If we're trading Deni and Rui and Kispert or anyone else who has shown some promise along with draft picks, I'd rather go after Sabonis than Grant.

Sabonis is just better and, if the Beal thing blows up and he wants to leave, I'd rather start over with Sabonis. I know the fit is less ideal, but they can work around that. The downside of maybe getting stuck with a roster led by Grant, Kuzma, and Dinwiddie looks pretty bad.

Agreed. Sabonis is a much more appealing building block than Grant. Chalk and cheese!

All three of us agree, Sabonis is better than Grant.

[nate33]

The Wizards aren't doing any Grant trade. The only way to afford him after paying Beal the max is to include Bertans. And we don't have the two 1st round picks necessary to incentivize Detroit into doing a Bertans for Grant trade.

It's not happening. Forget about it.