Potential Zach Trade Partners? 24/25 Edition

[PlayerUp]

You dont want Zach and Coby on the court together unless the 3 other guys are good defenders. They aren't. So it makes more sense to replace one with Ayo in any given (Giddey) lineup.

This is actually our only hope to semi tank next season. Form a terrible defensive lineup that doesn't work but they produce solid offensive numbers.

[WindyCityBorn]

I’m skeptical that we’ll salvage more than neutral value. Not sure what Zach can show teams that they haven’t seen from him before, and by now they’re trained to expect the other shoe to drop.

Show that he is still an elite efficient 20+ ppg scorer and he is healthy. If does that some team will bite and pay up. The current options are garbage. Keeping him makes the most sense. All the teams he has been linked to have moved on.

I doubt we have any choice but to keep him for now. With health and solid play his value could improve. Neutral value is an improvement. But there is the risk that he ends up even more underwater.

Exactly. Barring another season ending injury his value can’t get any worse. Neutral is better than this.

[madvillian]

Show that he is still an elite efficient 20+ ppg scorer and he is healthy. If does that some team will bite and pay up. The current options are garbage. Keeping him makes the most sense. All the teams he has been linked to have moved on.

I doubt we have any choice but to keep him for now. With health and solid play his value could improve. Neutral value is an improvement. But there is the risk that he ends up even more underwater.

Exactly. Barring another season ending injury his value can’t get any worse. Neutral is better than this.

Tick off another 40 games on his deal and have him play 80% of what he did in 2022 and he'll have neutral value. Yea we blew it but forcing a bad deal now only compounds the earlier error.

[Red8911]

Show that he is still an elite efficient 20+ ppg scorer and he is healthy. If does that some team will bite and pay up. The current options are garbage. Keeping him makes the most sense. All the teams he has been linked to have moved on.

I doubt we have any choice but to keep him for now. With health and solid play his value could improve. Neutral value is an improvement. But there is the risk that he ends up even more underwater.

Exactly. Barring another season ending injury his value can’t get any worse. Neutral is better than this.

You guys need to remember that teams know exactly who Zach Lavine is. Saying he will improve his value by scoring 20+ is simply not true.

Zach’s not new to the league nor is he a young prospect, he is who he is as a player. Teams know his exact strengths and weaknesses. Him playing well won’t change a thing regarding teams trading for him.

The problem is mostly the contract. Health is always a concern too but again if he plays 40 games injury free it still doesn’t change the fact that Zach is an injury prone player. They look at his whole career not just a couple of months.

Maybe a team trades for him now before the season but again the whole concept of letting him play next season to improve his value doesn’t make any sense.

[WindyCityBorn]

I doubt we have any choice but to keep him for now. With health and solid play his value could improve. Neutral value is an improvement. But there is the risk that he ends up even more underwater.

Exactly. Barring another season ending injury his value can’t get any worse. Neutral is better than this.

You guys need to remember that teams know exactly who Zach Lavine is. Saying he will improve his value by scoring 20+ is simply not true.

Zach’s not new to the league nor is he a young prospect, he is who he is as a player. Teams know his exact strengths and weaknesses. Him playing well won’t change a thing regarding teams trading for him.

The problem is mostly the contract. Health is always a concern too but again if he plays 40 games injury free it still doesn’t change the fact that Zach is an injury prone player. They look at his whole career not just a couple of months.

Maybe a team trades for him now before the season but again the whole concept of letting him play next season to improve his value doesn’t make any sense.

It absolutely does make sense if the alternative is attaching a valuable asset while also taking back trash. How does doing that help us?

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I doubt we have any choice but to keep him for now. With health and solid play his value could improve. Neutral value is an improvement. But there is the risk that he ends up even more underwater.

Exactly. Barring another season ending injury his value can’t get any worse. Neutral is better than this.

You guys need to remember that teams know exactly who Zach Lavine is. Saying he will improve his value by scoring 20+ is simply not true.

Zach’s not new to the league nor is he a young prospect, he is who he is as a player. Teams know his exact strengths and weaknesses. Him playing well won’t change a thing regarding teams trading for him.

The problem is mostly the contract. Health is always a concern too but again if he plays 40 games injury free it still doesn’t change the fact that Zach is an injury prone player. They look at his whole career not just a couple of months.

Maybe a team trades for him now before the season but again the whole concept of letting him play next season to improve his value doesn’t make any sense.

I agree with this. I see neutral value as the likely ceiling on his contract, and there’s of course the possibility that a slow start/injury sinks his value further, which is why I would use the fake PDX first to get off his contract now.

But like I said in another post, I think we’ve offered the PDX pick and no one’s biting, and I just can’t stomach adding more sweetener. Between giving up a real first and starting the season with Zach, I’d choose the latter.

[coldfish]

I doubt we have any choice but to keep him for now. With health and solid play his value could improve. Neutral value is an improvement. But there is the risk that he ends up even more underwater.

Exactly. Barring another season ending injury his value can’t get any worse. Neutral is better than this.

You guys need to remember that teams know exactly who Zach Lavine is. Saying he will improve his value by scoring 20+ is simply not true.

Zach’s not new to the league nor is he a young prospect, he is who he is as a player. Teams know his exact strengths and weaknesses. Him playing well won’t change a thing regarding teams trading for him.

The problem is mostly the contract. Health is always a concern too but again if he plays 40 games injury free it still doesn’t change the fact that Zach is an injury prone player. They look at his whole career not just a couple of months.

Maybe a team trades for him now before the season but again the whole concept of letting him play next season to improve his value doesn’t make any sense.

One of the big issues with Lavine is his contract. The more time that goes on, the less remaining dollars on his deal.

If he plays and is healthy, maybe a team decides to go for it or has an injury and wants to cover it. I really don't see the downside versus giving up a 1st round pick or two to dump him.

[DuckIII]

I really don't see the downside versus giving up a 1st round pick or two to dump him.

I’m opposed to giving up picks to dump him. But the downside is potentially losing our first next year.

On the one hand, it would definitely be wise when playing the odds to assume a top 10 pick this year will be better than a lesser first or even two in different drafts. I’m assuming protections better than top 8 if we attach even one first.

On the other hand, if Lavine stays, DDR leaves, and Vuc is traded or relegated to a role player, how good are we? How big of a risk is it, really?

Giddey/Ayo
Zach/Coby/Ayo
Coby/Pat/Ayo
Pat/Matas/Craig
Smith/Vuc/Matas (yeah, I said Matas)

With a deliberate emphasis on the youth, that bunch still loses. That team has 2 plus defenders. 2. It’s also not a very good three point shooting team at all. It has no superstars. It’s extremely young. And it’s a brand new mix with no chemistry.

I could easily see finishing in the bottom 10. That defense is atrocious.

So maybe Lavine isn’t that big a risk? But if he does help make that team play surprisingly well, the cost to us is brutal. Potentially franchise changing bad.

It’s a wild situation we’re in. Could be scary when the dust settles. Not good scary, bad scary.

[WookieOnRitalin]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this poop show known as Zach Lavine go down in flames.

Zach has been a negative player since he's been acquired. I have been a staunch critic of his since that moment. It has been a real treat, on some level, to watch the board come around and realize the same.

The whole deal was to sell Zach for pennies on the dollar and now there is no realistic scenario where you are able to get rid of him without the use of some sweetener. Like others have noted, such a utilization of a sweetener defeats the purpose of getting rid of him.

If Zach does end up the Bulls roster for the start of the season, I would take significant joy in putting Ball, Lavine, and Vuc all on the bench. The level of irony that would represent would be a glorious, yet sobering moment for all Bulls fans.

$84 million of rotting garbage.

[DuckIII]

I still think Zach is really good.

[burlydee]

Every year Lavine was the Bulls best player, they got a top 10 pick. Carter, White, Pat, Wagner. 4 years of ineptitude. I'm not worried about Lavine spoiling the Bulls pick. If he's the best guy on the team, the Bulls will be in the lottery.

[WookieOnRitalin]

I still think Zach is really good.

Good at what?

He's not a competitor. He's a skilled, but soft NBA player. He has no will to win and has not won at any level.

And he extorted $200 million from the franchise. Absolute waste.

[greenwing]

I still think Zach is really good.

He's also likely to have a bounce back year if he stays healthy with Demar gone. The question is at this point do the Bulls purposefully tank while developing the younger guys or do they retool around Lavine in the hopes that his lack of playoff success has been more about roster construction than his own talent. IMO it's a bit unfair to call a high voluem 3-point shooter who shoots the ball well and can score anywhere on the floor a bad fit for any playoff roster just because they're not an above average defender at their position. I do think Zach is a winner on the right roster. But the larger question is does he fit our long-term plans and is he willing to stomach another rebuild vs. retooling to get the roster right. I'm not sure there are teams willing to take a chance on his services given his price and injury history - so it might not matter either way. It would be nice to see pre-Demar Zach Lavine again, though.

[LateNight]

Read on Twitter

“The Detroit Pistons … chose to preserve cap space to be a potential salary dump destination for teams”

[Dez]

I still think Zach is really good.

Good at what?

He's not a competitor. He's a skilled, but soft NBA player. He has no will to win and has not won at any level.

And he extorted $200 million from the franchise. Absolute waste.

Well that's just false.

[PlayerUp]

I really don't see the downside versus giving up a 1st round pick or two to dump him.

I’m opposed to giving up picks to dump him. But the downside is potentially losing our first next year.

On the one hand, it would definitely be wise when playing the odds to assume a top 10 pick this year will be better than a lesser first or even two in different drafts. I’m assuming protections better than top 8 if we attach even one first.

On the other hand, if Lavine stays, DDR leaves, and Vuc is traded or relegated to a role player, how good are we? How big of a risk is it, really?

Giddey/Ayo
Zach/Coby/Ayo
Coby/Pat/Ayo
Pat/Matas/Craig
Smith/Vuc/Matas (yeah, I said Matas)

With a deliberate emphasis on the youth, that bunch still loses. That team has 2 plus defenders. 2. It’s also not a very good three point shooting team at all. It has no superstars. It’s extremely young. And it’s a brand new mix with no chemistry.

I could easily see finishing in the bottom 10. That defense is atrocious.

So maybe Lavine isn’t that big a risk? But if he does help make that team play surprisingly well, the cost to us is brutal. Potentially franchise changing bad.

It’s a wild situation we’re in. Could be scary when the dust settles. Not good scary, bad scary.

If Zach Lavine is helping us to the point we're a team heading towards the playin, then the solution here is trade other pieces. Zach alone can't do it all which means other players are performing. As of now there is no franchise player on this roster. Sell high is the goal after years of selling low, buying high which has hindered this teams growth under AKME and GARPAX.

Coby White is a good example here of a potential sell high candidate for this season.

[Chi town]

You dont want Zach and Coby on the court together unless the 3 other guys are good defenders. They aren't. So it makes more sense to replace one with Ayo in any given (Giddey) lineup.

This is actually our only hope to semi tank next season. Form a terrible defensive lineup that doesn't work but they produce solid offensive numbers.

Bingo

[coldfish]

I really don't see the downside versus giving up a 1st round pick or two to dump him.

I’m opposed to giving up picks to dump him. But the downside is potentially losing our first next year.

On the one hand, it would definitely be wise when playing the odds to assume a top 10 pick this year will be better than a lesser first or even two in different drafts. I’m assuming protections better than top 8 if we attach even one first.

On the other hand, if Lavine stays, DDR leaves, and Vuc is traded or relegated to a role player, how good are we? How big of a risk is it, really?

Giddey/Ayo
Zach/Coby/Ayo
Coby/Pat/Ayo
Pat/Matas/Craig
Smith/Vuc/Matas (yeah, I said Matas)

With a deliberate emphasis on the youth, that bunch still loses. That team has 2 plus defenders. 2. It’s also not a very good three point shooting team at all. It has no superstars. It’s extremely young. And it’s a brand new mix with no chemistry.

I could easily see finishing in the bottom 10. That defense is atrocious.

So maybe Lavine isn’t that big a risk? But if he does help make that team play surprisingly well, the cost to us is brutal. Potentially franchise changing bad.

It’s a wild situation we’re in. Could be scary when the dust settles. Not good scary, bad scary.

Overall my take is the same as yours. The defense is going to be atrocious, with or without Lavine. Perhaps worse with him.

I really don't see Lavine stopping the tank train. I would see him putting up a ton of empty stats on a bad team as the Bulls lose 110 to 130 every night. Perhaps he could rebuild his trade value just by being healthy and a desperate team pops up and you trade him then.

Personally, I'm not sure how much better Lavine is than Coby and Ayo when you factor in defense. Its them who would be losing minutes.

[Chi town]

I really don't see the downside versus giving up a 1st round pick or two to dump him.

I’m opposed to giving up picks to dump him. But the downside is potentially losing our first next year.

On the one hand, it would definitely be wise when playing the odds to assume a top 10 pick this year will be better than a lesser first or even two in different drafts. I’m assuming protections better than top 8 if we attach even one first.

On the other hand, if Lavine stays, DDR leaves, and Vuc is traded or relegated to a role player, how good are we? How big of a risk is it, really?

Giddey/Ayo
Zach/Coby/Ayo
Coby/Pat/Ayo
Pat/Matas/Craig
Smith/Vuc/Matas (yeah, I said Matas)

With a deliberate emphasis on the youth, that bunch still loses. That team has 2 plus defenders. 2. It’s also not a very good three point shooting team at all. It has no superstars. It’s extremely young. And it’s a brand new mix with no chemistry.

I could easily see finishing in the bottom 10. That defense is atrocious.

So maybe Lavine isn’t that big a risk? But if he does help make that team play surprisingly well, the cost to us is brutal. Potentially franchise changing bad.

It’s a wild situation we’re in. Could be scary when the dust settles. Not good scary, bad scary.

If Zach Lavine is helping us to the point we're a team heading towards the playin, then the solution here is trade other pieces. Zach alone can't do it which means other players are performing. As of now there is no franchise player on this roster. Sell high is the goal after years of selling low, buying high which has hindered this teams growth under AKME and GARPAX.

Coby White is a good example here of a potential sell high candidate for this season.

For us to make the play in we would need
- Best Healthy Zach
- Non Brick Vuc… not happening
- MVP Triple Double Giddey
- Healthy Roster

Those won’t be happening.

Ideally, Zach balls out into a trade for a 1st.

Coby improves and becomes a core player for the future or can be traded for a 1st to get us one. We want TWO 1sts in this draft. I think there are 4-5 1st option players in this draft which is crazy.

Also think Giddey may be that unicorn player that is our first option because he elevates 3rd and 4th options into 2nd and third options.

It will be easy to tank at the half way point. Trade players for picks.

[DuckIII]

I still think Zach is really good.

Good at what?

Being a valuable NBA basketball player. Context matters when evaluating basketball players. You put Lavine on the Bulls as a franchise player and he’s not the guy. That’s not something he’s capable of doing.

You put him, for example, on an established team with veteran stars like Embiid and Maxey and he’d be lethal and valuable as the third guy. He’s never been in the right role at any point in his career and still has worked his ass off and done well.

Obviously with the language you use to describe Lavine you won’t agree. Just pointing out that your self-perceived victory lap and gloating of having Bulls fans agree with you that Lavine is garbage doesn’t apply to me. I still think you’re wrong.

Me wanting Lavine off the team has nothing to do with what I think of him as a player.