MVP Rankings 1.0

Bgil · Post #941 » by **Bgil** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:56 am

dropbowsonem_25 wrote:how many finals wins do leading in PER and amassing statistical dominance get you?

Shut up! FYI, Lebron has more playoff series wins than Kobe in the past 7 seasons.

dropbowsonem_25 · Post #942 » by **dropbowsonem_25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:58 am

Bgil wrote:
dropbowsonem_25 wrote:how many finals wins do leading in PER and amassing statistical dominance get you?

Shut up! FYI, Lebron has more playoff series wins than Kobe in the past 7 seasons.

i concede the argument...damn you lebron fans and your way of reasoning. :lol:

Bgil · Post #943 » by **Bgil** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:58 am

eatyourchildren wrote:
Bgil wrote:
HouMac wrote:This really has got to suck for Kobe fans. After all his hard work this offseason, and his great play on the court, he's still getting completely dominated by The King by all statistical metrics out there. His significantly more talented team is only 2 games ahead in the standings despite playing the softest schedule in the league. No wonder the fanboys sound so frustrated. They have pretty much nothing tangible to point to somehow make an argument for Kobe>LeBron.

I'm sure Kobe is distraught every night when he checks Lebron's PER against his own.

It's suuuuuuper frustrating losing the statistical argument. Thank god for real life wins and losses otherwise I'd have to get my noose ready.

I check the Hollinger stats, win shares, and Drtg every night before bed. For those nights when I just can't hold back the tears I play this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzPn2ZjXbT0

YLSKillaCam · Post #944 » by **YLSKillaCam** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:21 am

Cavs lose to Dirkless Mavs.

Kobe is the MVP.

numbas · Post #945 » by **numbas** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:24 am

NYK 455 wrote:Kobe Bryant isn't the MVP or the best player in the league, he's the best player on the best team, a very stacked team that would be dangerous even if he wasn't on it. LeBron James is the best player in the league, and even though he probably won't win the MVP, he should. LeBron is just flat out better than Kobe. He scores at the same volume with better efficiency, is a better passer and playmaker, better rebounder, and a better and more versatile defender. Kobe has had a more successful career, but look at all the great teammates he's had, he wasn't even the best player on his team for most of his career, not to mention he's had the GOAT coach.

It doesn't make sense that people knock LeBron for losing the the Magic. LeBron led the Cavs to 66 wins with Mo Williams as the second best player. Let that sink in for a second. Mo Williams, a nice player, but not all-star caliber. It's crazy that the Cavs won that many games that year. Kobe Bryant in the same situation would be far less successful. If you surrounded LeBron with the talent Kobe has, this wouldn't really be a conversation.

As far as MVP goes, it doesn't mean best player, or best player on the best team, it means who is the most important to team success. The Lakers have 4 all-star caliber players sans Kobe Bryant, two 20-10 seven footers, former defensive player of the year, and one of the best 6th men in the NBA who is also one of the most versatile players in the league, all coached by the arguable GOAT coach. That team probably wins 50+ and is a top four team in the NBA regardless. The Cavs minus LeBron go from contender to lottery team. They'd be led by Mo Williams and Mike Brown......It's pretty clear that LeBron is more valuable.

For the record, I am neither a fan of Kobe or LeBron, I'm a Knick fan. I don't particularly like either, and I don't think LeBron is coming to New York anyway. Just calling it the way I see it.

well the flaw in that argument is im gunna use jordan as an example

the first year he retired the bulls made it to the eastern conference finals and were very close to winning that series against the knicks and getting back to the finals and then who knows

so does that make jordan not jordan then??

jrich88 · Post #946 » by **jrich88** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:07 am

Bgil wrote:
dropbowsonem_25 wrote:how many finals wins do leading in PER and amassing statistical dominance get you?

Shut up! FYI, Lebron has more playoff series wins than Kobe in the past 7 seasons.

that's probably THE WORST argument I have EVER heard in my ENTIRE life and I am absolutely serious :lol:

mysticbb · Post #947 » by **mysticbb** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:11 am

numbas wrote:the first year he retired the bulls made it to the eastern conference finals and were very close to winning that series against the knicks and getting back to the finals and then who knows

Where is the myth coming from that the 94 Bulls made the ECF? I read the same thing somewhere else. They lost in the 2nd round to the Knicks and the Knicks advanced to the ECF against the Indiana Pacers.

numbas · Post #948 » by **numbas** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:46 am

mysticbb wrote:
numbas wrote:the first year he retired the bulls made it to the eastern conference finals and were very close to winning that series against the knicks and getting back to the finals and then who knows

Where is the myth coming from that the 94 Bulls made the ECF? I read the same thing somewhere else. They lost in the 2nd round to the Knicks and the Knicks advanced to the ECF against the Indiana Pacers.

my bad still doesnt change my point

Dat Pass · Post #949 » by **Dat Pass** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:33 pm

Look at the Cavs schedule..

They have @Suns, @Kings, @Lakers, Rockets, @Hawks and Hawks.

Even if they manage to go 4-2 in that stretch (24-10), they would still only be on pace for a 57-25 season. 9 wins less than last season. I think its going to be extremely difficult for LeBron to win it this season.

YLSKillaCam · Post #950 » by **YLSKillaCam** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:06 pm

We'll know more after this week.

Bgil · Post #951 » by **Bgil** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:06 pm

WTF is so difficult about beating the Suns, Kings and Hawks? The Suns are 4-6 in their last 10 and the Cavs have already beat them once. I say the Cavs go 4-2 with no problems and probably 5-1.

Bgil · Post #952 » by **Bgil** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:07 pm

Oh wait, I forgot the Hawks are actually good now. Nevermind. lol

Dat Pass · Post #953 » by **Dat Pass** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:09 pm

Bgil wrote:Oh wait, I forgot the Hawks are actually good now. Nevermind. lol

I was gonna say, are you kidding me? Their next 6 games are very tough. And they play in Phoenix tonight, after playing in Dallas yesterday, so I dont think the Suns game is an easy win either. I think at best they go 4-2, but I suppose we will find out.

Post #954 » by **semi-sentient** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:10 pm

This week won't matter because LeBron will still have the higher PER and WS.

YLSKillaCam · Post #955 » by **YLSKillaCam** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:38 pm

semi-sentient wrote:This week won't matter because LeBron will still have the higher PER and WS.

This seriously made me lol. Well played, sir.

dingclancy · Post #956 » by **dingclancy** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:13 pm

heheh he will still have higher WS after a loss. hehe.

Benedict_Boozer · Post #957 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:31 pm

Ball Boy wrote:
Bgil wrote:Oh wait, I forgot the Hawks are actually good now. Nevermind. lol

I was gonna say, are you kidding me? Their next 6 games are very tough. And they play in Phoenix tonight, after playing in Dallas yesterday, so I dont think the Suns game is an easy win either. I think at best they go 4-2, but I suppose we will find out.

4-2 would be a miracle. The way we are playing right now we will be lucky to get 2 wins during this stretch. CLE will be 5-6 games behind LA/BOS pretty soon IMO.

From an MVP perspective this C-mas day game will be big. Writers will be watching that. I think the winner/best performer in that game will build alot of MVP momentum.

Dat Pass · Post #958 » by **Dat Pass** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:40 pm

Yea I think the Lakers will go up on the Cavs by 7-8 games by mid-Jan. But thats when the Lakers schedule gets really tough, so the Cavs could close that gap a bit.

The Lakers play the Magic on Jan. 18, and then go on an 8 game roadtrip. (Although, outside of the Cavs and Celtics, the roadtrip isnt that bad)

Either way, I think both sides have come to the conclusion that the Cavs have to win 60+ and stay within 5 games of the Lakers to give LeBron a shot at the MVP.

Bgil · Post #959 » by **Bgil** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:01 pm

As far as Xmas day,

I think the Cavs actually have a really good shot if Phil keeps Artest on Lebron. I have a feeling Artest will overplay him and Lebron will burn him over and over. Kobe tends to play him very conservatively and it usually works pretty well (he locked him down twice last year). If Mo gets as hot as he has in certain games this season then we may be in trouble.

More likely, Cleveland stomped similar to last season if not worse. Kobe dislocated his finger a minute into the first game and was sick as a dog and on an IV during the second game.

Mark87 · Post #960 » by **Mark87** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:12 pm

It's still very early to talk about MVP voting in my opinion