Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants)

[SuperDeluxe]

An international moron sees the light:
https://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2021/12/01/treviso-anti-vax-leader-converts-after-hospitalisation_4ca94684-0020-46aa-aaa4-3d72369d9767.html

[exculpatory]

An international moron sees the light:
https://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2021/12/01/treviso-anti-vax-leader-converts-after-hospitalisation_4ca94684-0020-46aa-aaa4-3d72369d9767.html

Karma.

[Tatumfor2]

An international moron sees the light:
https://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2021/12/01/treviso-anti-vax-leader-converts-after-hospitalisation_4ca94684-0020-46aa-aaa4-3d72369d9767.html

Big Pharma strikes again! I wonder how much they paid him?

[exculpatory]

https://www.mdedge.com/internalmedicine/article/249159/covid-19-updates/scientists-ask-whether-omicron-can-outrun-delta-how

[Marley2Hendrix]

"A state free and healthy."

I am not looking to get into a war or words with you or the people opposing you in this thread but I think too many people are missing the bigger picture.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ -- not even saying the data from this website is perfect but it is a somewhat respected website that is publicly available and it is a website that I have used before so I am staying consistent.


As of yesterday....

China 3 deaths per million (Even if we believe China is undercounting by a factor of 25, still an extremely low death count)
Japan 146 deaths per million. 18,359 deaths. -- high vaccination rate but death rate was super low in comparison to the US even before vaccinations and some of their high vaccination rates is probably due to having an older population.
Sweden 1484 deaths per million --
United States 2406 deaths per million
Florida 2,865 deaths per million 61,539 deaths.
New York 2987 deaths per million
Peru 5,984 deaths per million

More people have died in the state of Florida of covid than have died in Japan and China combined of covid. That simple stat should give you pause that Florida isn't "healthy" and the people that oppose and agree with you pause.

Being objective, Florida's overall policies which do strongly encourage vaccines for the older people and other policies to lower the amount of covid deaths will probably end up working better than most US states even though their death rate is moderately higher than average and Florida does have the advantage of being a warm weather state. Covid spreads much less outdoors but yes I know when it gets really hot in some of those southern states, people flock indoors. There are so many different factors since Florida is a state that many older people go to retire. But overall, the US has failed at handling covid. With 20/20 hindsight it was going to be a sh*tstorm even if the US handled it perfectly since the US population as a whole is unhealthy. The US has done a "good job" with vaccines and therapeutics but an F- job and that is being very generous addressing the root causes why the US population is so vulnerable to covid.

Even though I am vaccinated, I actually disagree with nearly all -- not all --- vaccine mandates that are applied outside of health care. As a general rule in a situation like this where a vaccine or drug hasn't been proven over the long run, inform people in an unbiased manner and let them make their decision. What is best for a 29 year old elite athlete in tremendous cardiovascular shape, may be different than someone even 32 and obese. I don't think the state of NY/NYC should be preventing Kyrie Irving from playing basketball but the Nets/NBA allow him or any other unvaccinated player to play should be willing to refund courtside season ticket holders near the bench. That being said, there isn't a single state in the continental USA that is "healthy".

That is the core of the problem and a big part of the reason why the US/similar nations have so many deaths in comparison to nations with much fitter populations. Peru is an obese country...surprise surprise they have a ton of deaths as well.

I first said it a long time ago but the US needs to be more focused on obesity when tackling covid than any other factor. Nearly eighty percent of covid deaths have obesity as a factor if not the main factor. This does NOT mean covid isn't a serious illness that may end up killing over 100 million before I die for all I know but since it is serious, why drop the ball on the best way to attack it. Eighty percent is a crazy high figure which may be a dramatic underestimate if anything since it doesn't account for how obese people are much more likely to spread covid. Absolutely crazy high and as some doctors/scientists have stated, it is alarming that the role of obesity is almost being reported on as just another item/a mere footnote. Fight obesity as the "first line" of defense against covid and many other diseases since in the medium to long run, it will make the biggest difference by far.

Unless we fight obesity with covid and eat healthier, as a nation we are going to continue to get our asses kicked and have an overly expensive health care system.

Awesome post, buddy! Came here hoping for more discussion like this, not, um, what the majority of that last few pages have, uh, featured.

I could go on a rant, but I won't (maybe a quick one), but my sense is we as a culture have been primed for the quick fix method. For the vast majority of individuals considering an anti-depressant, 9 out of ten times my sincere hope is they would first try 30 minutes of exercise 4-6 times a week over a period of at least three months (hopefully leading to a new habit), but, taking a pill each day is easier, even if it comes with some side effects and research pointing toward that same or increased dosage of prozac, zoloft, /whatever isn't yielding the same positive results 9 months, 18 months, 3+ years down the line... (draw whatever parallels one wants)

I'm not "anti-vax" and I'm not "anti-psychotropic medication," but, if there must be a label, I'm "anti-myopic view of very complex circumstances." As that seems to be the antithesis of 'merica heuristics, I get frustrated when I think about social issues/watch the news, so I've resumed avoiding it entirely the past several weeks, and life is better.

*This mini-rant was brought to you by bud light Seltzer. You may not want to risk exposing yourself in bars, but, hey, drink alone at home! Bud Light Seltzer!

Maybe two or three months ago I stumbled on an study which broke down the number 1 predictor of whether online/social media content would get traction was if it prominently featured hate/derision. Sort of weird to see that play out the last three pages.

Spread love, not covid, and do your cardio, fam.

Edited to add - https://summit.news/2021/11/16/poll-shows-french-grossly-exaggerate-threat-of-covid/

That piqued my interest. I'll leave it at that. (double edit - not the tone/sentiment of the article, just the implication media/news and whatever else has led the average individual in countries across the globe to vastly overestimate the lethality of covid. Now, on one hand, if that pushes more people to get vaccinated, that's dandy. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I recall fear/anxiety-based disorders falling in the top 5 of risky comorbidities as it relates to covid outcomes... Likewise, Covid or no, long-term stress/fear es no bueno, homies).

[SuperDeluxe]

Another gentleman who died free.

Read on Twitter

[Marley2Hendrix]

Maybe two or three months ago I stumbled on an study which broke down the number 1 predictor of whether online/social media content would get traction was if it prominently featured hate/derision. Sort of weird to see that play out the last three pages.

Spread love, not covid, and do your cardio, fam.

It made me giggle that the very next post is poking fun at the death of an unvaccinated person.

Back to soxfan's dialogue about concerns about obesity and my own concerns about fear mongering, look no further:



Hey, vaccinated or not, time to live in fear for several more months about Omicron - the Transformer of 'rona strains! Might as well enjoy some cheap, unhealthy food to cope! Thanks for looking out, BK!

In other news, The first omicron case has been confirmed in Iceland. The person had not been abroad and doesn't know how he was infected. He's in the hospital and recently had a booster shot.

https://www.visir.is/g/20212190851d/sa-sem-greindist-smitadur-af-omikron-ny-buinn-ad-fa-orvunar-skammt

In my neck of the woods (Minnesota), our first omicron case happened from a vaccinated man traveling to an anime convention in New York.

From the Current Affairs COVID Thread:

Tin foil hat: I think there is a reason the CDC stop[ped] tracking break through cases if they don't require hospitalization.
If vaccines are rather ineffective in stopping spread cause everything is opened up, how can you have a vaccine mandate? You aren't protection anyone but yourself when you get a vaccine

Yeah, though I don't think that breaches the tin foil hat realm. It seems like reality. The conundrum falls back to over crowding of hospitals. If one is worried about the over crowding of hospitals, I point toward the massive failure of Americans to use this pandemic event, which is at or closing in on the two year mark, to use this as a catalyst for getting healthy, which certainly would serve to limit the risk of a severe reaction/hospitalization due to covid. Mazel Tov if one's renewed interest in personal health is paired with getting vaccinated. I'm less enthusiastic if getting vaccinated is paired with an ongoing unhealthy lifestyle/obesity and a false sense of confidence that they are at a dramatically reduced risk of spreading covid.

Relatedly, from the aforementioned thread:

Harvard tracked covid in 173 NBA players, staff and families, who agreed to regular and frequent testing from November 2020 to August 2021, providing almost 20k viral samples for researchers to analyze.

Among the findings, vaccinated people cleared the virus on average 5.5 days while unvaccinated people cleared it on average 7.5 days.

Also they found that all variants produced the same amount of virus, dispelling the notion that the Delta variant produced 1000x the viral load of other variants.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/12/01/breakthrough-covid-infections-shorter-and-spread-less-study-finds/8808202002/

[exculpatory]

Ex I have a medical question about this new variant. Would best case scenario be if Omicron is very contagious but only presents fairly mild symptoms? That way it kind of chokes out Delta and other more severe variants and infects lots of people, which will build up immunity to potential more severe variants? Seems like this would be the best case scenario and turn the pandemic into an endemic.

I like to think I'm pretty well science versed but my degree is in chemistry not any type of biology or endocrinology. I am but a lowly high school physics teacher ha!

If Omicron turns out to be more transmissible than Delta (even if it is not more inherently virulent), it still will result in a bad outcome. It will spread like wildfire - especially amongst the 50 million morons >18 in the USA not vaccinated & not masking. Transmission begets replication begets more mutations begets worse variants. And that is assuming that our current vaccines still provide a substantial degree of protection VS Omicron. If not, there will be more breakthrough infections.
If it turns out to be MUCH less virulent than Delta (very doubtful), you pose an interesting hypothesis.
In a few weeks, we will know much more.

PS When I was pre-med, I majored in Chemistry & got A+ in Organic Chemistry - which I have totally forgotten. Biology was easy for me. Physics was by far the most difficult science course for me. I respect what you do!

1. A+ in organic chemistry is super impressive, that was the hardest class I've ever taken.
Working on my PhD now but in Leadership and not any of the sciences.

2. Thanks for answering my question, & appreciate all the insight you've given in this thread

3. And of course the Paul Pierce love since forever.

1. It is funny how people’s brains work & then evolve. 100 years ago in college, organic chemistry, biology, Russian, & Spanish were a snap for me - but physics & abstract algebra were VERY VERY hard for me. Also, I put off basic required freshman English until I was a senior because I could not easily express myself. Now, after having written & read many many medical publications over decades, it is rare for me to come across a physician who writes & expresses himself/herself as well as I do.

2. My pleasure. I do it for people like you who appreciate it.

3. ALWAYS! I miss him on the court making dagger after dagger. If they had given him KG (who needed Paul as much as Paul needed KG) earlier in his career (analogous to Kobe being blessed very early with Shaq), it would be the Truth with multiple rings. Also, KG’s injury one cold night in Utah in 2/2009 & Game 7 in LA in 6/2010 arguably cost the Celtics & the Truth a 2008-2009-2010 three peat.

[coach mang]

mangInaconda appreciate the posters on this thread not engaging in bullying and doxing of fellow kkeltic bruddahs. fer landsake there was a time when this kind of behavior was reserved only for outsiders that wandered round here yonder way popping off. sad to see indeed

soxfan and m2h wonder why media dont talk about fitness and sunshine. its cuz obesity b a CASH COW

the media glamorizes obesity. eat more honey. it so sexy



these folks aint ur friends holmes


"democracy has become a weapon of moneyed interests. It uses the media to create the illusion that there is consent from the governed. The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play. The notion of democracy is often no different than living under a plutocracy or a government of wealthy elites" - Spengler

this was written 100 years ago not yesterday


m2h, here is an article u may get something out of. its on the use of COGNITIVE WARFARE today

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/08/nato-cognitive-warfare-brain/



getting back to the thread topic. here are some items that do not fit neatly in the grand narrative:

https://brownstone.org/articles/more-than-400-studies-on-the-failure-of-compulsory-covid-interventions/


pfizer doc that FDA was forced to cough up a couple of days ago. in first 90 days of vax rollout 10s of thousands of reported adverse reactions and 1223 fatalities (on page 7)

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf


pepe escobar's review of RFKs new book on big dog fauch

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/escobar-fauci-darth-vader-covid-wars


mang aint trying to fuss n fight or change hearts n minds.... just trying to use this thwead to share info w the one or two on here that might care to give a gander


"now hatred is by far the longest pleasure; men love in haste, but they detest at leisure" Lord Byron


LOVE

[Dogen]

mangInaconda appreciate the posters on this thread not engaging in bullying and doxing of fellow kkeltic bruddahs. fer landsake there was a time when this kind of behavior was reserved only for outsiders that wandered round here yonder way popping off. sad to see indeed

soxfan and m2h wonder why media dont talk about fitness and sunshine. its cuz obesity b a CASH COW

the media glamorizes obesity. eat more honey. it so sexy



these folks aint ur friends holmes


"democracy has become a weapon of moneyed interests. It uses the media to create the illusion that there is consent from the governed. The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play. The notion of democracy is often no different than living under a plutocracy or a government of wealthy elites" - Spengler

this was written 100 years ago not yesterday


m2h, here is an article u may get something out of. its on the use of COGNITIVE WARFARE today

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/08/nato-cognitive-warfare-brain/



getting back to the thread topic. here are some items that do not fit neatly in the grand narrative:

https://brownstone.org/articles/more-than-400-studies-on-the-failure-of-compulsory-covid-interventions/


pfizer doc that FDA was forced to cough up a couple of days ago. in first 90 days of vax rollout 10s of thousands of reported adverse reactions and 1223 fatalities (on page 7)

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf


pepe escobar's review of RFKs new book on big dog fauch

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/escobar-fauci-darth-vader-covid-wars


mang aint trying to fuss n fight or change hearts n minds.... just trying to use this thwead to share info w the one or two on here that might care to give a gander


"now hatred is by far the longest pleasure; men love in haste, but they detest at leisure" Lord Byron


LOVE

Well, thanks Coach.

If I may, what is the connection with the monk at the bottom of your post, Ashin Wirathu?

[ddb]

Covid is a deadly pandemic. It killed science, logic, evidence-based medicine, and common sense

[Marley2Hendrix]

Spoiler:

mangInaconda appreciate the posters on this thread not engaging in bullying and doxing of fellow kkeltic bruddahs. fer landsake there was a time when this kind of behavior was reserved only for outsiders that wandered round here yonder way popping off. sad to see indeed

soxfan and m2h wonder why media dont talk about fitness and sunshine. its cuz obesity b a CASH COW

the media glamorizes obesity. eat more honey. it so sexy



these folks aint ur friends holmes


"democracy has become a weapon of moneyed interests. It uses the media to create the illusion that there is consent from the governed. The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play. The notion of democracy is often no different than living under a plutocracy or a government of wealthy elites" - Spengler

this was written 100 years ago not yesterday


m2h, here is an article u may get something out of. its on the use of COGNITIVE WARFARE today

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/08/nato-cognitive-warfare-brain/



getting back to the thread topic. here are some items that do not fit neatly in the grand narrative:

https://brownstone.org/articles/more-than-400-studies-on-the-failure-of-compulsory-covid-interventions/


pfizer doc that FDA was forced to cough up a couple of days ago. in first 90 days of vax rollout 10s of thousands of reported adverse reactions and 1223 fatalities (on page 7)

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf


pepe escobar's review of RFKs new book on big dog fauch

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/escobar-fauci-darth-vader-covid-wars


mang aint trying to fuss n fight or change hearts n minds.... just trying to use this thwead to share info w the one or two on here that might care to give a gander


"now hatred is by far the longest pleasure; men love in haste, but they detest at leisure" Lord Byron


LOVE

Thanks, mang for always bringing some heat.

Loved the Nato article. Psycholinguistics is real. As I said, the human brain wants to operate in the most efficient manner, and mental heuristics are a huge part of that. I think the way "anti-vaxers" has been hammered by the media is one of the most destructive things to have happened since COVID emerged. I fell into psychology after reading Soren Kierkegaard's fear and trembling when I was 19 or 20, and it really popped into my mind my second year of grad school reading Therapeutic Communication: Knowing What to Say When, not really so much in terms of clinical work, but in reflecting on how the words and intentions behind what we say, (myself included) conscious or not, is ripe with content for how we or others tick, for better or often worse. Although it's essentially a book examining communication, I remember there being a fair bit of dialogue in it which resonated with me about how it's no accident the type of people we are drawn to and we draw to ourselves, which generally serves to maintain our personality flaws and strengths. This, particularly is interesting to me in the 2021 digital/social media era we find ourselves in. I've read quite a few posts in this thread, the Current Affairs thread, general off-topic, Canada board, etc., and it's interesting to me how they all essentially result in an approved culture that tends to weed out those not in the 'right think' for the group. I'm rambling, but my takeaway for anyone interested and reading this, take a moment to consider the various mental gymnastics at play any time you start to type "anti-vaxer" and what all it stems from, and I'd tend to think 99% of the time it's not from a place of genuine concern and/or desire to help others. Not to be crass, but the tone I hate most in threads like these that emerges quite often is a circlejerk over the failures/demise of those in the wrong think. That said, I get this is a digital outlet, and many understandably have a great deal of frustration and need of said outlet, though, again, what's the healthiest way to vent?

Short on time this morning, but look forward to diving into the rest of your links.

Stay healthy and happy, all. Life is too short.

[exculpatory]

Covid is a deadly pandemic. It killed science, logic, evidence-based medicine, and common sense

I cannot resist this.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

YOU WOULD NOT KNOW EVIDENCE-BASED MEDICINE IF IT HIT YOU RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES WITH THE FORCE OF 1000 SLEDGEHAMMERS.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I READ EVERY SINGLE **** DAY IN THE BEST PEER REVIEWED JOURNALS AUTHORED BY THE SMARTEST INFECTIOUS DISEASE DOCS & EPIDEMIOLOGISTS ON PLANET EARTH, & PERIODICALLY SUMMARIZE (SUPPORTED BY THE CITATION LINK) IN THIS THREAD, YOU DUMBER THAN ROCKS, ARROGANT MORON!

****.
KEEP ON KEEPING ON WITH YOUR HOT TUB IGNORAMUSES.

If and when you catch delta or omicron, get yourself some HQ, ivermectin, & zinc (about as efficacious as fermented dog **** in treating Covid).
Good luck with that treatment regimen, you **** idiot!

And feel free to pass it on to other unvaccinated morons.
Just stay away from immunocompromised vaccinated people.

SMMFH.

[Fencer reregistered]

https://ktla.com/news/scientists-call-omicron-most-mutated-virus-wed-ever-seen-why-does-that-matter/

[exculpatory]

Beyond Omicron where we wait to find out how bad it will be & how much protection double vax and double vax + booster will provide -

1. Decent news regarding the booster & the current Delta surge:

https://dgalerts.docguide.com/study-finds-rapid-and-broad-immune-response-third-dose-bnt162b2-covid-19-vaccine-individuals-older

(DDB - this one most definitely is beyond your extremely limited comprehension. It is also actual EVIDENCE-BASED COVID MEDICAL SCIENCE PUBLISHED IN THE ESTEEMED JOURNAL OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES BY AN OUTSTANDING ISRAELI GROUP.)

2. Bad news regarding the current Delta surge:

https://apple.news/AGI2KftvSR3mNGQsvZkPeRQ

[SmartWentCrazy]

Beyond Omicron where we wait to find out how bad it will be & how much protection double vax and double vax + booster will provide -

1. Decent news regarding the booster & the current Delta surge:

https://dgalerts.docguide.com/study-finds-rapid-and-broad-immune-response-third-dose-bnt162b2-covid-19-vaccine-individuals-older

(DDB - this one most definitely is beyond your extremely limited comprehension. It is also actual EVIDENCE-BASED COVID MEDICAL SCIENCE PUBLISHED IN THE ESTEEMED JOURNAL OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES BY AN OUTSTANDING ISRAELI GROUP.)

2. Bad news regarding the current Delta surge:

https://apple.news/AGI2KftvSR3mNGQsvZkPeRQ

Thank you for posting all of these links. Its always appreciated, even if not outwardly stated.

[exculpatory]

Beyond Omicron where we wait to find out how bad it will be & how much protection double vax and double vax + booster will provide -

1. Decent news regarding the booster & the current Delta surge:

https://dgalerts.docguide.com/study-finds-rapid-and-broad-immune-response-third-dose-bnt162b2-covid-19-vaccine-individuals-older

(DDB - this one most definitely is beyond your extremely limited comprehension. It is also actual EVIDENCE-BASED COVID MEDICAL SCIENCE PUBLISHED IN THE ESTEEMED JOURNAL OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES BY AN OUTSTANDING ISRAELI GROUP.)

2. Bad news regarding the current Delta surge:

https://apple.news/AGI2KftvSR3mNGQsvZkPeRQ

Thank you for posting all of these links. Its always appreciated, even if not outwardly stated.

I very much appreciate what you said.

[SmartWentCrazy]

[
Awesome post, buddy! Came here hoping for more discussion like this, not, um, what the majority of that last few pages have, uh, featured.

I could go on a rant, but I won't (maybe a quick one), but my sense is we as a culture have been primed for the quick fix method. For the vast majority of individuals considering an anti-depressant, 9 out of ten times my sincere hope is they would first try 30 minutes of exercise 4-6 times a week over a period of at least three months (hopefully leading to a new habit), but, taking a pill each day is easier, even if it comes with some side effects and research pointing toward that same or increased dosage of prozac, zoloft, /whatever isn't yielding the same positive results 9 months, 18 months, 3+ years down the line... (draw whatever parallels one wants)

I'm not "anti-vax" and I'm not "anti-psychotropic medication," but, if there must be a label, I'm "anti-myopic view of very complex circumstances." As that seems to be the antithesis of 'merica heuristics, I get frustrated when I think about social issues/watch the news, so I've resumed avoiding it entirely the past several weeks, and life is better.

*This mini-rant was brought to you by bud light Seltzer. You may not want to risk exposing yourself in bars, but, hey, drink alone at home! Bud Light Seltzer!

Maybe two or three months ago I stumbled on an study which broke down the number 1 predictor of whether online/social media content would get traction was if it prominently featured hate/derision. Sort of weird to see that play out the last three pages.

Spread love, not covid, and do your cardio, fam.

Edited to add - https://summit.news/2021/11/16/poll-shows-french-grossly-exaggerate-threat-of-covid/

That piqued my interest. I'll leave it at that. (double edit - not the tone/sentiment of the article, just the implication media/news and whatever else has led the average individual in countries across the globe to vastly overestimate the lethality of covid. Now, on one hand, if that pushes more people to get vaccinated, that's dandy. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I recall fear/anxiety-based disorders falling in the top 5 of risky comorbidities as it relates to covid outcomes... Likewise, Covid or no, long-term stress/fear es no bueno, homies).

People like you are why there is a stigma around mental health. Do you have any idea how offensive this is? To assess that 90% of instances where individuals are clinically diagnosed with depression and prescribed medicine are just lazy and that their issues can be solved by just working out 30 minutes a day 4 days a week?

[Marley2Hendrix]

[
Awesome post, buddy! Came here hoping for more discussion like this, not, um, what the majority of that last few pages have, uh, featured.

I could go on a rant, but I won't (maybe a quick one), but my sense is we as a culture have been primed for the quick fix method. For the vast majority of individuals considering an anti-depressant, 9 out of ten times my sincere hope is they would first try 30 minutes of exercise 4-6 times a week over a period of at least three months (hopefully leading to a new habit), but, taking a pill each day is easier, even if it comes with some side effects and research pointing toward that same or increased dosage of prozac, zoloft, /whatever isn't yielding the same positive results 9 months, 18 months, 3+ years down the line... (draw whatever parallels one wants)

I'm not "anti-vax" and I'm not "anti-psychotropic medication," but, if there must be a label, I'm "anti-myopic view of very complex circumstances." As that seems to be the antithesis of 'merica heuristics, I get frustrated when I think about social issues/watch the news, so I've resumed avoiding it entirely the past several weeks, and life is better.

*This mini-rant was brought to you by bud light Seltzer. You may not want to risk exposing yourself in bars, but, hey, drink alone at home! Bud Light Seltzer!

Maybe two or three months ago I stumbled on an study which broke down the number 1 predictor of whether online/social media content would get traction was if it prominently featured hate/derision. Sort of weird to see that play out the last three pages.

Spread love, not covid, and do your cardio, fam.

Edited to add - https://summit.news/2021/11/16/poll-shows-french-grossly-exaggerate-threat-of-covid/

That piqued my interest. I'll leave it at that. (double edit - not the tone/sentiment of the article, just the implication media/news and whatever else has led the average individual in countries across the globe to vastly overestimate the lethality of covid. Now, on one hand, if that pushes more people to get vaccinated, that's dandy. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I recall fear/anxiety-based disorders falling in the top 5 of risky comorbidities as it relates to covid outcomes... Likewise, Covid or no, long-term stress/fear es no bueno, homies).

People like you are why there is a stigma around mental health. Do you have any idea how offensive this is? To assess that 90% of instances where individuals are clinically diagnosed with depression and prescribed medicine are just lazy and that their issues can be solved by just working out 30 minutes a day 4 days a week?

The vast majority of people are placed on antidepressants by general medical physicians, not psychiatrists, and, the vast majority of this population receives antidepressants after reporting depressive symptoms to their general medical physician while not meeting the criteria for a Major Depressive Disorder (a quick google yielded a 2013 journal article indicating 79% of people on antidepressants received them from their general medical physician, 60% of whom do not see a therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist at any point in the future). Depressive symptoms generally pose a paradox - general malaise, anhedonia (diminished desire to engage in enjoyable/preferred activities), and lethargy, with the best known resolution to this being forced behavioral activation (i.e., pushing oneself to socialize, exercise, and, generally, being active). Unfortunately, this solution is antithetical to the experience of depressive symptoms and not intrinsically known by most. Moreover, the average adult in the united states experiences an uptick in depressive symptoms approximately two days per month, and, broadly speaking, we don't do a great job in this country in schools, media, and in general talking about what to do when depressive symptoms present.

Generally, the main utility of an antidepressant is boosting someone out of a severe depression, with the goal of giving them the energy to meaningfully engage in behavioral activation (i.e., socializing, developing a support network, exercising, meaningfully engaging in the therapy process, etc.). Ironically, this poses a dangerous and misunderstood situation of it's own, as there's plenty of research and lawsuits, primarily from the 90s, as their tends to be a statistically significant influx of individuals committing suicide approximately 4-6 weeks after initiating a trial with an antidepressant; why - because as the serious depression remits, energy rises but the underlying thoughts remain, thereby creating a scenario where they have the energy/psychic energy to commit suicide they didn't have before. To be clear, this is not the fault of the antidepressant, but the failure to ensure the individual is combining the modality of treatment with therapy and active involvement in a support system.

Lastly, and reiterating my prior point, we, as a country, like quick, easy fixes (i.e., take paxil for the rest of your life and never worry about depression again; get vaccinated and you don't have to worry about your comorbidities). Google it yourself - the long-term efficacy (i.e., continuing them for 6 months, 12 months, 4 years, etc.) of antidepressants alone isn't favorable. Moreover, for males in particular, many don't make the link when the medication causes, say, impotence, never link it to the pill, never discuss it with their prescribing physician (people aren't great about talking about these things) which then contributes to further embarrassment/withdrawal, only serving to further the source of the depression.

The stigma is mental health issues are embarrassing, so let's get on a pill and never talk about it again. As I said before,

I'm "anti-myopic view of very complex circumstances."

To me, your response was myopic, but, in an effort to try and be a good human, this is what I hope is a thoughtful response. I strongly disagree with your sentiment, "People like you are why there is a stigma around mental health," and I'm sorry you feel that way.

edit - I haven't read the article, but, after posting, I quickly had the thought bubble maybe it does sound absurd that regular exercise, through random controlled trials, has demonstrated similar efficacy to antidepressants, and you don't want to trust what random licensed psychologist guy is touting on the internet, and that's fair. Quick google and the very first result (I assure you, there's an abundance of studies):

Two categories of publications were examined: randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and meta-analyses or systematic reviews. Based on this reassessment, RCTs comparing exercise to antidepressants reported that exercise and antidepressants were equally effective. RCTs comparing exercise combined with antidepressants to antidepressants only reported a significant improvement in depression following exercise as an adjunctive treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/

Not to be myopic, but, think like a psychologist - forcing oneself to exercise is more than just the four or five days of exercise. It could mean, for many, going to a gym, forcing oneself out of his or her home, and at least engaging with others, even better if they have a workout buddy or friend, which yields further socialization. How about the enhanced self-esteem and sense of mastery for actual coming up with a goal of regular exercise, sticking to it, and, in basic terms, feeling better about one's health and general level of fitness, circumstances which may underlie some aspects of the depressive symptoms. There's a pretty vast list of correlates that come with exercise...

[SmartWentCrazy]

The vast majority of people are placed on antidepressants by general medical physicians, not psychiatrists, and, the vast majority of this population receives antidepressants after reporting depressive symptoms to their general medical physician while not meeting the criteria for a Major Depressive Disorder (a quick google yielded a 2013 journal article indicating 79% of people on antidepressants received them from their general medical physician, 60% of whom do not see a therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist at any point in the future). Depressive symptoms generally pose a paradox - general malaise, anhedonia (diminished desire to engage in enjoyable/preferred activities), and lethargy, with the best known resolution to this being forced behavioral activation (i.e., pushing oneself to socialize, exercise, and, generally, being active). Unfortunately, this solution is antithetical to the experience of depressive symptoms and not intrinsically known by most. Moreover, the average adult in the united states experiences an uptick in depressive symptoms approximately two days per month, and, broadly speaking, we don't do a great job in this country in schools, media, and in general talking about what to do when depressive symptoms present.

Generally, the main utility of an antidepressant is boosting someone out of a severe depression, with the goal of giving them the energy to meaningfully engage in behavioral activation (i.e., socializing, developing a support network, exercising, meaningfully engaging in the therapy process, etc.). Ironically, this poses a dangerous and misunderstood situation of it's own, as there's plenty of research and lawsuits, primarily from the 90s, as their tends to be a statistically significant influx of individuals committing suicide approximately 4-6 weeks after initiating a trial with an antidepressant; why - because as the serious depression remits, energy rises but the underlying thoughts remain, thereby creating a scenario where they have the energy/psychic energy to commit suicide they didn't have before. To be clear, this is not the fault of the antidepressant, but the failure to ensure the individual is combining the modality of treatment with therapy and active involvement in a support system.

Lastly, and reiterating my prior point, we, as a country, like quick, easy fixes (i.e., take paxil for the rest of your life and never worry about depression again; get vaccinated and you don't have to worry about your comorbidities). Google it yourself - the long-term efficacy (i.e., continuing them for 6 months, 12 months, 4 years, etc.) of antidepressants alone isn't favorable. Moreover, for males in particular, many don't make the link when the medication causes, say, impotence, never link it to the pill, never discuss it with their prescribing physician (people aren't great about talking about these things) which then contributes to further embarrassment/withdrawal, only serving to further the source of the depression.

The stigma is mental health issues are embarrassing, so let's get on a pill and never talk about it again. As I said before,

I'm "anti-myopic view of very complex circumstances."

To me, your response was myopic, but, in an effort to try and be a good human, this is what I hope is a thoughtful response. I strongly disagree with your sentiment, "People like you are why there is a stigma around mental health," and I'm sorry you feel that way.

edit - I haven't read the article, but, after posting, I quickly had the thought bubble maybe it does sound absurd that regular exercise, through random controlled trials, has demonstrated similar efficacy to antidepressants, and you don't want to trust what random licensed psychologist guy is touting on the internet, and that's fair. Quick google and the very first result (I assure you, there's an abundance of studies):

Two categories of publications were examined: randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and meta-analyses or systematic reviews. Based on this reassessment, RCTs comparing exercise to antidepressants reported that exercise and antidepressants were equally effective. RCTs comparing exercise combined with antidepressants to antidepressants only reported a significant improvement in depression following exercise as an adjunctive treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/

Not to be myopic, but, think like a psychologist - forcing oneself to exercise is more than just the four or five days of exercise. It could mean, for many, going to a gym, forcing oneself out of his or her home, and at least engaging with others, even better if they have a workout buddy or friend, which yields further socialization. How about the enhanced self-esteem and sense of mastery for actual coming up with a goal of regular exercise, sticking to it, and, in basic terms, feeling better about one's health and general level of fitness, circumstances which may underlie some aspects of the depressive symptoms. There's a pretty vast list of correlates that come with exercise...

You are a paradox of what you spout against— you dislike quick fixes but you source and advice for everything is a google search, where you admittedly just read synopses only. I bolded this all for your benefit.

Do you have a medical degree? What makes you think you’re more capable of diagnosing depression and advising a cure than ones PCP? If your answer is you google’d specific search words and read a few hours worth of studies/abstracts then that is a problem.

Edit: are you a licensed psychologist? I honestly dont know and see you alluded to it. Im skeptical of much online, but if you are things are obviously different.