Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

[fleet]

i think my favorite compulsion is when play-call tea-leaf readers are like "yeah, offense is humming, good thing nagy gave up playcalling duties!" and then when there are a few ineffective plays in a row they go "idk i think nagy might have started calling plays again in the second half..."

-

This is not the same style offense we saw last week.

They aren’t scoring again. Nagy is going into a shell

Lazor seems fully back control now.

Have a feeling Nagy must be harassing Lazor. For some Nagy reason they actually ran some 5 man protect as well that predictably failed and should be banned. For the most part they ran out of the extra blocker sets, and Justin handed the ball off dropping back.

lol

Any plays that yield more than 5 yards: "Must be a Lazor play"
Any plays that yield less: "Nagy must have called that one".

You guys are being mean. Leave Brittney alone!

I doubt Nagy called any plays tonight. Other than for Dalton, hilariously. But the gameplan went thru him did it not? Thats real.

[Dresden]

Good win today, by the way. Defense played their best game of the year by far. Offense continues to be one of the worst in the league. I understand playing to the score, but at some point (like in the next several games), they are going to have to score more than 20 points to win a game, and I hope they can do it.

Fields was getting blasted everytime he dropped back to throw it downfield. I don't recall him ever having the time to sit in the pocket, survey the field, and wait for someone to break free. Carr had that kind of time multiple times. That seems like the real problem that forces them to play this dink and dunk sort of game.

The offense really didn't look any different today than it did when Dalton was under center, other than maybe they ran the ball more. But they were picking up good chunks of yardage that way, too, which they weren't the first few games. So they were probably just sticking with what was working.

It was disappointing when they failed to pick up 3rd and 1 on back to back drives- I thought a bit more imagination in the play calling there would have helped, esp. on the second one.

Well, a win is a win. And not many people had them beating the Raiders on the road. So it was actually a really terrific win.

Another positive- the ability of that o line to open up big holes for the running game. The announcers were gushing about how well the line was working together. And I don't know if matters all that much who is running the ball- Williams and Herbert were equally impressive today. The Bears have 3 very solid options at that position now. If they can continue to run the ball that well, it's going to open up the passing game sooner or later.

[biggestbullsfan]

I think Herbert needs more snaps. Maybe even first snaps. He was really i prep when he got going. Williams seems better as a change of pace back. Herbert was getting extra yards after contact

[fleet]

I think Herbert needs more snaps. Maybe even first snaps. He was really i prep when he got going. Williams seems better as a change of pace back. Herbert was getting extra yards after contact

True. But if the Bears ever get a screen play incorporated for a HB, Williams is thre man over everybody. I think, I don't know how well Herbert is catching the ball

[biggestbullsfan]

They definitely need to get Justin more passing plays going. I don’t think we can run Green Bay into the ground

[biggestbullsfan]

I think Herbert needs more snaps. Maybe even first snaps. He was really i prep when he got going. Williams seems better as a change of pace back. Herbert was getting extra yards after contact

True. But if the Bears ever get a screen play incorporated for a HB, Williams is thre man over everybody. I think, I don't know how well Herbert is catching the ball

True especially in game action. It’ll be interesting to see how we translate our offense against the packers. They score in bunches, we will need to throw a lot more than we have been.

Also hoping no lingering issues for Justin’s knee

[micromonkey]

I'm gonna say something unpopular.

We should sprinkle in some Dalton (like we sprinkled in Fields when Dalton started)--and like what the 49ers were trying to do before Jimmy G got hurt.

I'm not saying 20 snaps--maybe 5-8 for Andy.

I think we wait until the other team is lulled and expecting Fields and the run heavy /deeper pass offense.
Have Fields go to sideline like he's talking to the coach.
Sneak Andy in and run a few plays of dink/dunk. Maybe catch offside for a penalty or even make them burn a timeout.
He does have a quick release and as a temporary change of pace--it could be nice.

Even have Fields sneak back in as WR/RB for some razzle dazzle-Dalton to Fields and then deep bomb to Mooney. (Maybe we save that for the superbowl? )

I like the general calling--I don't like our designed runs for Fields at all. And I'm still baffled we have not move the pocket for him more on purpose. Its better than the endless short passes--but I actually do think we have some room now to do more of that. Again Raiders have a pretty good pass D so the plan worked all in all.

I think our defense is better than the yards/points allowed--whether it holds up--we shall see.

Now can we stand up to GB? Their defense in theory is not as good as the Raiders--we should be able to run and pass against them better--but it's about gameplan and execution....we will see....

[dougthonus]

I'm gonna say something unpopular.

We should sprinkle in some Dalton (like we sprinkled in Fields when Dalton started)--and like what the 49ers were trying to do before Jimmy G got hurt.

I'm not saying 20 snaps--maybe 5-8 for Andy.

I think we wait until the other team is lulled and expecting Fields and the run heavy /deeper pass offense.
Have Fields go to sideline like he's talking to the coach.
Sneak Andy in and run a few plays of dink/dunk. Maybe catch offside for a penalty or even make them burn a timeout.
He does have a quick release and as a temporary change of pace--it could be nice.

Even have Fields sneak back in as WR/RB for some razzle dazzle-Dalton to Fields and then deep bomb to Mooney. (Maybe we save that for the superbowl? )

I like the general calling--I don't like our designed runs for Fields at all. And I'm still baffled we have not move the pocket for him more on purpose. Its better than the endless short passes--but I actually do think we have some room now to do more of that. Again Raiders have a pretty good pass D so the plan worked all in all.

I think our defense is better than the yards/points allowed--whether it holds up--we shall see.

Now can we stand up to GB? Their defense in theory is not as good as the Raiders--we should be able to run and pass against them better--but it's about gameplan and execution....we will see....

Doing so potentially causes too many problems IMO. What if Dalton goes and leads a TD drive and Fields struggles? You start then invite controversy.

Interestingly watching Fields, he thusfar doesn't seem nearly as fast or elusive as I would have expected. I'd probably not run him almost at all. I don't see almost any benefit out of our designed runs for him. I'd be content to get him out of the pocket a few more on bootlegs but he isn't Michael Vick back there. There's no reason to get him all those extra hits for 4-5 yard pick ups.

Let him use the run like Jeff Garcia. Be capable if the defense just gives you a 1st down, but don't make it a primary option only use it as the fall back plan.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I'm gonna say something unpopular.

We should sprinkle in some Dalton (like we sprinkled in Fields when Dalton started)--and like what the 49ers were trying to do before Jimmy G got hurt.

I'm not saying 20 snaps--maybe 5-8 for Andy.

I think we wait until the other team is lulled and expecting Fields and the run heavy /deeper pass offense.
Have Fields go to sideline like he's talking to the coach.
Sneak Andy in and run a few plays of dink/dunk. Maybe catch offside for a penalty or even make them burn a timeout.
He does have a quick release and as a temporary change of pace--it could be nice.

Even have Fields sneak back in as WR/RB for some razzle dazzle-Dalton to Fields and then deep bomb to Mooney. (Maybe we save that for the superbowl? )

I like the general calling--I don't like our designed runs for Fields at all. And I'm still baffled we have not move the pocket for him more on purpose. Its better than the endless short passes--but I actually do think we have some room now to do more of that. Again Raiders have a pretty good pass D so the plan worked all in all.

I think our defense is better than the yards/points allowed--whether it holds up--we shall see.

Now can we stand up to GB? Their defense in theory is not as good as the Raiders--we should be able to run and pass against them better--but it's about gameplan and execution....we will see....

Doing so potentially causes too many problems IMO. What if Dalton goes and leads a TD drive and Fields struggles? You start then invite controversy.

Interestingly watching Fields, he thusfar doesn't seem nearly as fast or elusive as I would have expected. I'd probably not run him almost at all. I don't see almost any benefit out of our designed runs for him. I'd be content to get him out of the pocket a few more on bootlegs but he isn't Michael Vick back there. There's no reason to get him all those extra hits for 4-5 yard pick ups.

Let him use the run like Jeff Garcia. Be capable if the defense just gives you a 1st down, but don't make it a primary option only use it as the fall back plan.

I agree, Fields just doesn't look fast or quick even. It could be just more of indecisiveness possibly and when he does actually commit to going he is fast but yeah he doesn't look like a dangerous RPO type QB so far at least from what I've seen. Which I'm ok with. I want a QB with a good arm first and it helps that he is mobile. But his speed/ acceleration might be overrated right now. We'll probably get a better taste of this when he is up to speed mentally.

[Dresden]

Whatever they do, they have to find a way to protect him better and keep him from taking so many hits. He's not going to last more than a couple of games at the rate he was getting knocked around yesterday. I know some of those came on illegal hits, but he took a lot that were legal as well (and painful).

[dougthonus]

Whatever they do, they have to find a way to protect him better and keep him from taking so many hits. He's not going to last more than a couple of games at the rate he was getting knocked around yesterday. I know some of those came on illegal hits, but he took a lot that were legal as well (and painful).

A lot of this is Fields needing to get better. He hangs onto the ball a long time and doesn't get out of the pocket or sense pressure well yet.

[micromonkey]

Yes we have seen that he does have the speed--the preseaseon raw speed data shows he "has it". No, not to be Vick/Jackson but darn close speedwise.

Now using it--is another thing.

When its "there" Fields needs to just run and not hesitate--I'm seeing a lot of hesitation on run/pass--not a red flag yet. By the time he decides to run--its way to late--when if he just took it earlier--he'd have it--same with some passes.

His Average Depth of target continues to be over 10 yards--his instincts seem to be to look for longer passes (Dalton is 5 yards average depth). Not that looking for big plays is bad--but he should take the underneath stuff too. Again I'm sure they are going over this.

I'm not suggesting RPO with fields-in fact I don't like the hits either--I'm a huge fan of opportunity runs--Garcia is not a bad comp, nor is Steve Young or young Elway (and I'm not suggesting he's as good as the HOFers--just comparing how they ran to how he should).
What I am suggesting is more moving the pocket (actually pulling guards and moving it--not just scrambling)--and then take what you can get. Have an outlet and downfield targets--and if the defense is asleep--maybe an easy run. Doing this (IMO) would make it so they got to waste a LB /DB to spy him--or just surrender gimme yards. Either way its a win.
Maybe they are doing it and he's not getting it--but I have not seen any.

I thought they should do the same with Mitch--and I think Mitch's 2018 running is also "about right" for what I'd like to see from Fields (about 420 yards).

[fleet]

Biggs talks to scouts

To get a feel for what outsiders think about the Bears, I touched base with two scouts who have watched on film on them to help assess where the team currently is.

If the Bears can show legitimate growth with this unit, what you’ve seen the last five weeks could look significantly different before season’s end. Justin Fields has played 3 ½ games and the Bears accept some Sundays will look like he’s taking two steps forward and others as if he’s taking one or two steps back. Fields should make the offense more explosive because of his ability to make second-reaction plays and threaten defenses with his legs. But it’s a big puzzle with more parts than just Fields.

“They did a very good job max protecting against the Lions,” Scout 1 said. “I think they have to do more of that because when they put that subpar O-line one-on-one without chipping and keeping running backs in, they obviously have problems. The Rams got after them a little bit as well. I thought Bill Lazor did a good job of protecting the quarterback, but more importantly, I thought he started the game out with the intention of forcing the run game, which gives the offensive line confidence. So, I think they need to max protect more and I think they need to continue to run the ball.”

“I think they have to shorten their routes because the offensive line can’t protect for the longer ones,” Scout 1 said. “The routes that they’ve run with the receivers and tight ends have been longer routes. That takes time for that all to develop and the young quarterback, he doesn’t see the field as well although he did better against the Lions. We both know the Lions are awful. I think he has to get the tight ends involved with more shorter passes, like 7 yards.

“Lazor has to work the intermediate passing game as opposed to working those deeper routes with Kmet and those guys. 5-yard outs and little checkdowns where they can get the ball to Kmet fast. That doesn’t sound great but those kinds of things can get those guys going and they need to do that. Their tight ends are jump-ball headaches because they’re all over 6-foot-6. If they can get down near the goalline and just throw jump balls, I think that will help them get some more action.”

“Darnell Mooney is definitely an ascending young player,” Scout 1 said. “He reminds me of Emmanuel Sanders. He’s a good football player, man. He’s not Tyreek Hill or DeSean Jackson like the coach said. Mooney is fast now, but he’s not built like those other players either. He’s built like Sanders and Sanders has been a damn good player.”

Sanders, now 34, had a 1,404-yard season for the Denver Broncos in 2014 when he caught a career-high nine touchdown passes. He’s in his first season with the Buffalo Bills now, the fifth organization he’s played for, and has 678 career receptions for 8,887 yards and 49 touchdowns. That’s a pretty good career especially when considering the Bears have one receiver in franchise history with more than 5,000 yards receiving — Johnny Morris (5,059).

“They’ve got to get Allen Robinson more involved because he’s one of the best players in their building,” Scout 2 said. “And they’ve got to get the tight ends going especially for a young quarterback because those are the middle of the field guys that can stretch the seams. They can run in-breakers and they can be a security blanket for a young quarterback in third-down situations where do you don’t have to so heavily scheme guys open, you can have a big body tight end who can find a middle of the field window and sit it down and help you move the sticks.”

“The pass rush has been good,” Scout 2 said. “It’s not just four-man fronts, they’re getting in multiple fronts, they’re using stunts and it helps when you have a guy like Robert Quinn who is playing with so much more juice. He’s winning one-on-ones. How many times did you see him do that last season?”

“Their front seven /(has)/ done a good job rotating those guys in so they can all stay fresh,” Scout 2 said. “However, their rotation isn’t always good because they’ve been late getting on the field a few times. You can probably see that happening. They have to be careful.”

“I like the addition of Alec Ogletree,” Scout 1 said. “He’s surprised me. I think he’s done a good job of helping be that next athletic guy that they didn’t have in (Danny) Trevathan. You know about Roquan (Smith) because he can flash and flow to the ball. But you could kind of isolate away from him and try to go after Trevathan, who was more of an instinctive and aware guy. But you could put (Trevathan) in man-to-man (coverage) and take advantage of him whereas Ogletree, he gives them a lift and he is playing the run way better than I thought he would.”

“I think they’re still trying to figure out what they have at the cornerback spot with (Kindle) Vildor and especially with Duke Shelley,” Scout 2 said. “Four- or five-game sample size isn’t enough to really evaluate them and they’re going to start running into some higher level competition coming up. They ought to find out soon what they have in the secondary. They need those guys to make some plays on the ball or they are going to be in some tough spots.”

“The secondary has played well,” Scout 1 said. “I like the two (starting) corners. I like (Jaylon) Johnson more because he’s got better size. I don’t think he’s a shutdown guy like they’re trying to portray him to be. He’s not there yet, but I do like him. I don’t think they tackle well as a whole in their secondary. If you’re headed right at them, those guys don’t wanna tackle. They’re good cover guys. They’re quick. I love Eddie Jackson, but he’s not a tackler. His angles are bad. He will miss a lot of tackles. So that’s where they need to improve when teams get into the second level against them, whether it’s a long run or pass, those guys aren’t good tacklers. They’ve had some blown coverages too, given up some long plays. I don’t know if it’s missed assignments or miscommunication because they haven’t played back there together for too long but they need to clean that up.”

The Bears did a better job of tackling in this win. There were still some chances to get guys down, but it wasn’t like Josh Jacobs got loose (the Raiders running back had only 48 yards on 15 carries).

“Tell you what, I like that guy 45 (Joel Iyiegbuniwe),” Scout 1 said. “He’s a problem on special teams. If you’re playing the Bears, he’s the guy you need to find and block. He looks like one of their better core players.”

https://illinoisnewstoday.com/chicago-bears-brad-biggs-10-thoughts-on-week-5/392206/

[dice]

Yes we have seen that he does have the speed--the preseaseon raw speed data shows he "has it". No, not to be Vick/Jackson but darn close speedwise.

Now using it--is another thing.

When its "there" Fields needs to just run and not hesitate--I'm seeing a lot of hesitation on run/pass--not a red flag yet. By the time he decides to run--its way to late--when if he just took it earlier--he'd have it--same with some passes.

His Average Depth of target continues to be over 10 yards--his instincts seem to be to look for longer passes (Dalton is 5 yards average depth). Not that looking for big plays is bad--but he should take the underneath stuff too. Again I'm sure they are going over this.

I'm not suggesting RPO with fields-in fact I don't like the hits either--I'm a huge fan of opportunity runs--Garcia is not a bad comp, nor is Steve Young or young Elway (and I'm not suggesting he's as good as the HOFers--just comparing how they ran to how he should).
What I am suggesting is more moving the pocket (actually pulling guards and moving it--not just scrambling)--and then take what you can get. Have an outlet and downfield targets--and if the defense is asleep--maybe an easy run. Doing this (IMO) would make it so they got to waste a LB /DB to spy him--or just surrender gimme yards. Either way its a win.
Maybe they are doing it and he's not getting it--but I have not seen any.

I thought they should do the same with Mitch--and I think Mitch's 2018 running is also "about right" for what I'd like to see from Fields (about 420 yards).

i think that a lot of the issues with his inability to use his speed thus far is not a LACK of speed but rather NFL regular season defensive speed/schemes. i'm sure he'll quickly become more effective with his legs...a la early trubisky

[Susan]

Read on Twitter

And that's Gruden's last game ever coached.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Read on Twitter

And that's Gruden's last game ever coached.

Call me naive, but I honestly didn’t see THIS coming.

[dice]

Read on Twitter

And that's Gruden's last game ever coached.

is that new information?

edit: apparently so, as he's officially gone. not sure if you were predicting or reporting

he'll never work in the public eye again. will be interesting to see how much of his contract he gets

[dice]

bears have rushed for more yards than they have passed for 4 consecutive games. gotta be exceedingly rare in this era

[Dresden]

There goes Chucky. Too bad for the Raiders, who were finally starting to show signs of life this year. Davis is probably glad to get out from under that big contract though.

[Dresden]

bears have rushed for more yards than they have passed for 4 consecutive games. gotta be exceedingly rare in this era

Also exceedingly rare that through 5 games, they have yet to pass for more than 250 yards in a game, which probably isn't even the league average. Bears are throwing it for a massive 145 yards per game, dead last by a mile. Next worst is NO, at 180, and after that, MIA at 214.

That is the biggest indictment of organization failure concerning the team right now- that in this era of pass happy offenses, the Bears aren't even averaging 150 measly yards through the air.