Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[thebuzzardman]

Thibs brother throwing shade at Leon and the front office

[Galvationknicks]

I swear these Facebook groups listen to e very article and every POS on espn. It's ridiculous the non stop crying. They making us look bag like they never heard of knicks for clicks.

They all forgot how much thibs was shi tted on in the regular season by the media then all come backing thibs bc he got fired. Knicks fir clicks is going strong right now. We have a boring ass finals that nobody wants to watch. Gotta keep ppl still interested. Let's F with the that franchise again. And also bringing up It's Dolan interfering again lol. Same old knicks headline is ratings.

[Galvationknicks]

We are definitely on the cowboys level of hate when we are good. I fall for it with any bad cowboys news myself. Espn knows how to get clicks and interest

[ctorres]

Watch on YouTube

[shmeakone]

Can we just call Rajon Rondo and call it a wrap?

[Jeff Van Gully]

Can we just call Rajon Rondo and call it a wrap?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2462484

[cgmw]

I completely disagree about who Donte was yelling towards. When that video came out, I must have watched it a dozen times and while Donte was at the free throw line he was definitely looking at Rick when he was talking smack. He later denied and said it was towards Thibs.

So I sat basically on/behind the Knick bench half a dozen times this season, and the dynamic I witnessed was:

• Thibs does not acknowledge the existence of any human in the room except the 5 players on the court, the 3 refs, the 1 replay assistant, and the 1 bench player whose name he hollers for substitutions. He literally ignored all other Knick players, coaches, or employees from the moment he stepped out of the tunnel until the moment he went back in. No collaboration, no tips, no nothing. In the very rare occasion that an assistant would hand him something or whisper something, he did not speak back to them or even acknowledged their existence.

• Rick is the boss of everything else. Rick talks to the players, talks to the other assistants, and was the visible/vocal leader of the 10 players and 10 Knick employees who actually sit on the bench.

That was the dynamic. Weird as all hell, but it seemed to work.

That's actually revolting

Tom's an Orc on the spectrum

Your account makes me more certain than ever that players who praise him are either being politically correct or are starters with a selfish streak who are the beneficiaries of his monomania

Seriously, F that guy. Glad he's gone

Spoiler:

He’s 100% on the spectrum. For the record i have nothing but love and respect for Thibs. His level of intensity and absolutely pure 100% competitive insanity for winning is completely remarkable.

That said, I doubt he ever coaches another minute in the NBA again. He can’t be an assistant and nobody will tolerate his insanity. He will turn ball-handling dribble-drive players into stars. And he will elevate centers to the next level. But idk if any team is willing to tolerate it and I bet even crazy ass Thibs realizes he can just go enjoy his $30m now.

[Clyde_Style]

So I sat basically on/behind the Knick bench half a dozen times this season, and the dynamic I witnessed was:

• Thibs does not acknowledge the existence of any human in the room except the 5 players on the court, the 3 refs, the 1 replay assistant, and the 1 bench player whose name he hollers for substitutions. He literally ignored all other Knick players, coaches, or employees from the moment he stepped out of the tunnel until the moment he went back in. No collaboration, no tips, no nothing. In the very rare occasion that an assistant would hand him something or whisper something, he did not speak back to them or even acknowledged their existence.

• Rick is the boss of everything else. Rick talks to the players, talks to the other assistants, and was the visible/vocal leader of the 10 players and 10 Knick employees who actually sit on the bench.

That was the dynamic. Weird as all hell, but it seemed to work.

That's actually revolting

Tom's an Orc on the spectrum

Your account makes me more certain than ever that players who praise him are either being politically correct or are starters with a selfish streak who are the beneficiaries of his monomania

Seriously, F that guy. Glad he's gone

Spoiler:

He’s 100% on the spectrum. For the record i have nothing but love and respect for Thibs. His level of intensity and absolutely pure 100% competitive insanity for winning is completely remarkable.

That said, I doubt he ever coaches another minute in the NBA again. He can’t be an assistant and nobody will tolerate his insanity. He will turn ball-handling dribble-drive players into stars. And he will elevate centers to the next level. But idk if any team is willing to tolerate it and I bet even crazy ass Thibs realizes he can just go enjoy his $30m now.

It is possible to respect his passion without loving his strategy

This was his last stop. All 3 times the story played out the same. There's no hidden gold left to be mined

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

ooof

[GONYK]

From the Athletic

Firing Tom Thibodeau was the plan.

For all of you who keep wondering what coaching search playbook the New York Knicks are working from, confused by the fact that they didn’t have a realistic replacement in mind when they fired the most successful coach in their last quarter century on June 3 and are now trying to steal other team’s head coaches as if this is an episode of “NBA Bachelor,” you’re missing the revelation here.

The Knicks, and owner James Dolan most of all, were done with Thibodeau long before he led them to their first East finals appearance since 2000. Everything that came after the choice to send him packing, with the Knicks having now been denied permission to speak to another team’s head coach five times (that we know of), was a wild goose chase the likes of which we’ve never seen in the Association.

Now the coaches who were pursued are all very capable and widely-respected, to be sure, but the fact that the Knicks have chosen to conduct the search in such an audacious manner tells you all you need to know about the root cause of this ridiculousness. They were done with Thibs a while ago — never mind that he led the way on a historic run and was reportedly still owed at least $30 million on his deal. And chances are, the only thing that could have saved him was winning the whole damn thing.

The rumblings about Thibodeau being in trouble were there before the playoffs, when the noise was loud enough to inspire several phone calls from yours truly to inquire about this topic. Some people close to Thibodeau said they’d be stunned if the Knicks did something that rash. Others close to the Knicks insisted that all was well — especially once they downed Detroit in the first round and upset the defending champion Celtics in the semifinals.

While Dolan is the holder of supreme Knicks power, and team president Leon Rose is the undisputed leader of the front office, executive vice president William Wesley (aka “Worldwide Wes”) continues to have the kind of influence that matters a great deal during times like these.

[Jeff Van Gully]

From the Athletic

Firing Tom Thibodeau was the plan.

For all of you who keep wondering what coaching search playbook the New York Knicks are working from, confused by the fact that they didn’t have a realistic replacement in mind when they fired the most successful coach in their last quarter century on June 3 and are now trying to steal other team’s head coaches as if this is an episode of “NBA Bachelor,” you’re missing the revelation here.

The Knicks, and owner James Dolan most of all, were done with Thibodeau long before he led them to their first East finals appearance since 2000. Everything that came after the choice to send him packing, with the Knicks having now been denied permission to speak to another team’s head coach five times (that we know of), was a wild goose chase the likes of which we’ve never seen in the Association.

Now the coaches who were pursued are all very capable and widely-respected, to be sure, but the fact that the Knicks have chosen to conduct the search in such an audacious manner tells you all you need to know about the root cause of this ridiculousness. They were done with Thibs a while ago — never mind that he led the way on a historic run and was reportedly still owed at least $30 million on his deal. And chances are, the only thing that could have saved him was winning the whole damn thing.

The rumblings about Thibodeau being in trouble were there before the playoffs, when the noise was loud enough to inspire several phone calls from yours truly to inquire about this topic. Some people close to Thibodeau said they’d be stunned if the Knicks did something that rash. Others close to the Knicks insisted that all was well — especially once they downed Detroit in the first round and upset the defending champion Celtics in the semifinals.

While Dolan is the holder of supreme Knicks power, and team president Leon Rose is the undisputed leader of the front office, executive vice president William Wesley (aka “Worldwide Wes”) continues to have the kind of influence that matters a great deal during times like these.

just read this whole thing myself. parts good for both thibs threads. the discussion of why he's out and the discussion of what appears to be happening now.

[prophet_of_rage]

The article states that he was going to be fired either way unless he won the title. That was always the plan.

It also says that Rose and WWW wanted him gone as well, in addition to Dolan, yes, but not because of Dolan.

The rest I guess will be figured out.

So they had months to prepare for this

Not only that but the story is bogus because why did Dolan need to sit with the players for exit interview when he wanted Thibs gone long ago? Why did Leon need the green light from Dolan when he always had it?

Dolan was brought in by Wes to hear the players complaints and forced Leon to fore Thibs. That's my conspirwcy theoey. Wes wanted Thiba out/Leon did not. JB and Hart backed Thibs. Now the majority of the team did not and Dolan needed to hear that

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[HEZI]

What are you saying?

Rose didn’t need to justify to Dolan why he wanted to fire Thibs. Dolan wanted him gone anyway. Dolan being at that exit meeting was him making his presence felt and applying pressure on Rose to do what he’s been asking him to do for years now.

Well, that's an improvement from saying it was Dolan's decision.
But Leon is the best thing that's happend to Dolan (in MSG) since he owned the team.There's no way he wants to ruin his first chance to not be hated, give out basketballs to kiddies, and have the NBA with a few far worse owners. So no, for all the reasons stated previoulsy and for this reason, it was Leon's decision. Dolan was backing him up and doing due diligence on his lost $30M.

WWW/Dolan but it doesn’t matter who but the decision was theirs that much is obvious. It’s not Dolans job to actually fire the coach because that’s Leon’s job but he did what he was ordered to do. If you want to say it was his choice to go along with it, then fine sure.

[HEZI]

So they had months to prepare for this

Not only that but the story is bogus because why did Dolan need to sit with the players for exit interview when he wanted Thibs gone long ago? Why did Leon need the green light from Dolan when he always had it?

Dolan was brought in by Wes to hear the players complaints and forced Leon to fore Thibs. That's my conspirwcy theoey. Wes wanted Thiba out/Leon did not. JB and Hart backed Thibs. Now the majority of the team did not and Dolan needed to hear that

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

That’s pretty much where I’m at with it too

[BKlutch]

Rose didn’t need to justify to Dolan why he wanted to fire Thibs. Dolan wanted him gone anyway. Dolan being at that exit meeting was him making his presence felt and applying pressure on Rose to do what he’s been asking him to do for years now.

Well, that's an improvement from saying it was Dolan's decision.
But Leon is the best thing that's happend to Dolan (in MSG) since he owned the team.There's no way he wants to ruin his first chance to not be hated, give out basketballs to kiddies, and have the NBA with a few far worse owners. So no, for all the reasons stated previoulsy and for this reason, it was Leon's decision. Dolan was backing him up and doing due diligence on his lost $30M.

WWW/Dolan but it doesn’t matter who but the decision was theirs that much is obvious. It’s not Dolans job to actually fire the coach because that’s Leon’s job but he did what he was ordered to do. If you want to say it was his choice to go along with it, then fine sure.

Your position flies in the face of all the good evidence we've seen so far, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

[HEZI]

Well, that's an improvement from saying it was Dolan's decision.
But Leon is the best thing that's happend to Dolan (in MSG) since he owned the team.There's no way he wants to ruin his first chance to not be hated, give out basketballs to kiddies, and have the NBA with a few far worse owners. So no, for all the reasons stated previoulsy and for this reason, it was Leon's decision. Dolan was backing him up and doing due diligence on his lost $30M.

WWW/Dolan but it doesn’t matter who but the decision was theirs that much is obvious. It’s not Dolans job to actually fire the coach because that’s Leon’s job but he did what he was ordered to do. If you want to say it was his choice to go along with it, then fine sure.

Your position flies in the face of all the good evidence we've seen so far, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

What good evidence? It’s actually the opposite, evidence is going against what you are saying

[BKlutch]

WWW/Dolan but it doesn’t matter who but the decision was theirs that much is obvious. It’s not Dolans job to actually fire the coach because that’s Leon’s job but he did what he was ordered to do. If you want to say it was his choice to go along with it, then fine sure.

Your position flies in the face of all the good evidence we've seen so far, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

What good evidence? It’s actually the opposite, evidence is going against what you are saying

Enough, Hazzi. There’s been a lot about this here that you either don’t believe or don’t accept. Either way, there’s no point to continuing this discussion. Have a good day.

[Fury]

WWW/Dolan but it doesn’t matter who but the decision was theirs that much is obvious. It’s not Dolans job to actually fire the coach because that’s Leon’s job but he did what he was ordered to do. If you want to say it was his choice to go along with it, then fine sure.

Your position flies in the face of all the good evidence we've seen so far, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

What good evidence? It’s actually the opposite, evidence is going against what you are saying

Well, if Dolan wanted to fire him for the longest, why didn't they do it before? Seems like someone else gave the go.

[Capn'O]

What's crazy is if the Pacers didn't all of a sudden turn into the 2004 Pistons/2011 Mavs...

CARLIIIIIIIIIIIISLE!!!!!!!


**** man...

[NYKProspect]

I think it could have been an element of surprise during the playoffs. I don't know if I've ever seen a Thibs team ever need to have multiple player meetings during the postseason to address things like effort and sacrifice. It's weird as eff...if you told me that Thibs would beat the Celtics before the season, I'd say, automatic extension. But the highs were high and rare, and the lows were more common and alarming. We can blame the players for that, but I'd say that the players were trying and weren't figuring out. At some point, the coach needs to figure it out...coaches are also culture setters and the ultimate team leaders with decision-making authority.

I think the other thing is that I think it's really unreasonable to think they will have someone on deck to replace Thibs, if he gets fired, unless that person is already in our org. Like if we had an assistant coach that we liked, then yea, that dude would be on deck. For example, when the Grizzlies fired Jenkins, they had their dude on the deck. The Knicks didn't; to me, if they didn't have anyone internal they liked, it's 100% fine that they want to take their time and interview. I don't think they should ever have anyone on deck that comes from a different org like that...if they don't know the guy, he should not be on deck. When it's an external hire, they should take their time and vet people.

But, during the season? I don't think it's reasonable to expect the Knicks to be prepared to fire Thibs by doing a bunch of research in the middle of it. There's no way to drop feelers about hiring other coaches and interviewing other coaches during the season, unless we want to have a media shyt storm. That stuff will 100% leak. It's not the right way to treat Thibs and also not good for the players and a huge distraction.

I guess my point...this whole thing about the Knicks needing to fire Thibs and then having an external coach in mind immediately is unreasonable. Internal? Yes, get the guy ready. External? Take your time.

I agree with all this but it still begs the question of why fire thibs in the first place? Maybe he isn't the guy to take you over the top but he's clearly a good coach. Is there a better replacement out there? There could be but we sure don't know yet. The game plan is to try to poach other teams' coaches? That sounds like a terrible game plan since it may involve us giving up picks to get it done, which we already don't have many of and we lack depth.

My confusion about the firing is more about the timing than anything. Feels like maybe Thibs lost the locker room and FO made a knee jerk reaction. I agree with Teague when he said that Thibs needed to hire an offensive coordinator that he trusts. I think that would have maybe been a better route. At least it'd give Thibs one more shot for redemption and given the Knicks someone who potentially could have taken over if they still wanted to get rid of him.

You've already answered your question.

1) "He isn't the guy to take you over the top" - Fire the guy. He's done a good job, but it's time to let go. No need to give him another shot. You acknowledge it, I acknowledge it, the FO acknowledges it. Thank you, Thibs. Appreciate you, but time to go to the next level.

2) "Is there a better replacement out there? There could be but we sure don't know yet." - This is why we need to give this FO time. This is part of their job description. Their job description is not to keep getting 50 win seasons. It's to win a ring. I don't know if they can get it done...maybe they hire the right guy or the wrong guy, but they need to take the shot. This is part of their job...it's also time to see if this is a championship-level FO.

There is risk in this, just like there was risk in trading for KAT, etc. But there is risk in keeping Thibs too, especially with short contract timelines and decisions to be made with players.

Exactly, i love Thibs, i think he's a great coach but i think we hit our ceiling with him. it was def time for a change, specially if multiple players were complaining about him per the reports. As for the next coach, who knows if he will be better but i trust Leon and the rest of the Org to find the right guy. We have a talented roster were imo we don't need to get best coach per say. just somebody that can better use the whole roster, who is capable of making adjustments and not being stuck in their ways. Like I said before, I trust Leon to make the right call, his body of work with the Knicks speaks for itself.