TOR/GSW/ATL; Monta Ellis to Toronto

[Harry10]

TOR gets: Monta Ellis and Zaza for Jarret Jack and Belinelli

GSW gets: Marvin Williams, Bibby, and Belinelli for Monta and Charlie Bell

ATL gets: Jarret Jack and Charlie Bell for Marvin Williams, Bibby and Zaza

GSW: apparently the Warriors are okay with letting a talent like Monta go, so that they can develop and build a team around Curry. Marvin is not a great return, but is the only thing that could work. HOU could make a deal, but Aaron and Ellis would be too small, and any sort of CHI trade would be pointless because Rose and Ellis would be redundant. with no more Ellis at SG, Belinelli goes back to GS and helps back up Marrow.

TOR: after loosing Bosh, Raptors would mind in getting a young talent like Monta, that is on a big and long contract. with no 7 footer, Rap get an okay back up center in Zaza.

ATL: Jack gets to go back home. Crawford gets a PG that complements his skills, and the Hawks clear up alot of cap space and hopefully make a pitch to a free agent that is better than Joe.

[FNQ]

If we needed to trade Monta... this is the return we'd get? Or this is the return we'd get if we only wanted to deal w/these 2 teams?

Horrible underselling by GS here... there is only one legitimate NBA starter in the group and we're giving him away for the worst contract of the group. Where's the incentive, ANY incentive, to make this deal from our end?

[DirtyDez]

The Raps would need to take Turiaf or Vlad for it to work and Jose Calderon becomes the most expensive backup PG in the league.

[Harry10]

If we needed to trade Monta... this is the return we'd get? Or this is the return we'd get if we only wanted to deal w/these 2 teams?

Horrible underselling by GS here... there is only one legitimate NBA starter in the group and we're giving him away for the worst contract of the group. Where's the incentive, ANY incentive, to make this deal from our end?

^ i agree, Monta is a great talent, but his skills sets make it hard for him to team up with other players; Aaron Brooks/Ellis, Rose/Ellis, Roy/Ellis, Evan Turner/Ellis, Devin Harris/Ellis, Granger/Ellis, etc i don't think works well, so alot of team might not be willing to take Ellis' long contract..... just depends if the Warriors want to build around Curry or Monta, or if someone really thinks that a backcourt of Curry/Ellis could really work

[warriorfan650]

Personally, I don't mind Marvin Williams, but Bibby wouldn't start here and I don't think it'd be fair to him at this point in his career to send him to a losing team to back up a second year PG (No, Curry will not play SG for Golden State).

If we're going to trade Ellis for a SF, I'd rather have Granger or Iggy. Now don't flame me, I know Granger is unlikely but it was a rumor going into the draft. Iggy seems like the most likely scenario and I'd rather have him. Not saying I'd do the trade immediately if presented, though.

[Harry10]

Personally, I don't mind Marvin Williams, but Bibby wouldn't start here and I don't think it'd be fair to him at this point in his career to send him to a losing team to back up a second year PG (No, Curry will not play SG for Golden State).

If we're going to trade Ellis for a SF, I'd rather have Granger or Iggy. Now don't flame me, I know Granger is unlikely but it was a rumor going into the draft. Iggy seems like the most likely scenario and I'd rather have him. Not saying I'd do the trade immediately if presented, though.

i agree, Granger for Ellis would not be fair for Indy, but Ellis for Iggy would be fair, the only problem is that i think that the Phily fans and front office have high aspirations on Holiday and Louis Williams. if things work out for Phily, Turner can turn into a legit #1, while Iggy turns into Turner's defensive side kick like Pippen or Dumars. Sixers are also probably looking to Turner to dominate the ball like Roy and Wade, so Ellis probably wouldn't thrive in that environment.

[FNQ]

if someone really thinks that a backcourt of Curry/Ellis could really work

Absolutely it could. Much ado has been made over nothing in that aspect... the problem was never whether or not their skillsets matched. They actually do. The problem is whether Monta's ego would allow the W's to draft someone to be their lead guard when he patiently waited out the Baron and Cap'n Jack eras to eventually assume the position.

Monta actually worked pretty well with Curry, showed he could defend good 2s and do it well, albeit inconsistently. But the bottom line comes down to Monta's attitude - if he's willing to be a 2nd fiddle and only have the fact that he makes an 8 figure salary to soothe him, we're in good shape in the backcourt. If he doesn't, we have to deal him, but this type of package isnt what we'd be looking for. He's not an albatross or talentless. We'd find a deal where a team coveted him, or at the very least, wanted him.

Outside of a major injury/felony, neither of which would shock me BTW, I cant see this deal ever flying for the W's.

[don nelson]

if someone really thinks that a backcourt of Curry/Ellis could really work

Absolutely it could. Much ado has been made over nothing in that aspect... the problem was never whether or not their skillsets matched. They actually do. The problem is whether Monta's ego would allow the W's to draft someone to be their lead guard when he patiently waited out the Baron and Cap'n Jack eras to eventually assume the position.

Monta actually worked pretty well with Curry, showed he could defend good 2s and do it well, albeit inconsistently. But the bottom line comes down to Monta's attitude - if he's willing to be a 2nd fiddle and only have the fact that he makes an 8 figure salary to soothe him, we're in good shape in the backcourt. If he doesn't, we have to deal him, but this type of package isnt what we'd be looking for. He's not an albatross or talentless. We'd find a deal where a team coveted him, or at the very least, wanted him.

Outside of a major injury/felony, neither of which would shock me BTW, I cant see this deal ever flying for the W's.

+1. The Ellis-Curry guard tandem was the very least of the Warriors concerns based upon their production last season. If Golden State were interested in Marvin Williams, the first thing the Warriors should do is deal directly with Atlanta and cut the Raptors completely out of this deal.

[D21]

+1. The Ellis-Curry guard tandem was the very least of the Warriors concerns based upon their production last season.

I did not see lots of GSW games, but are you sure ?
Their own production, maybe, but their impact (taking opponent production too) ?

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910GSW.HTM
Says Ellis gives -11pts differential, when you have lots of players in positive like Morrow, Watson, Tolliver, Turiaf... who played a lot. Or did these guys played only in garbage time for half the game ? It can't be that.

If Golden State were interested in Marvin Williams, the first thing the Warriors should do is deal directly with Atlanta and cut the Raptors completely out of this deal.

Would you prefer only Marvin or Marvin and other players ?
I don't find any deal that could look interesting for both teams ( and I even don't know if this rumor is based on dumping salaries for ATL or trying to improve), so better ask you what do you prefer : clearing some salaries, getting only Marvin,...

[old rem]

If we needed to trade Monta... this is the return we'd get? Or this is the return we'd get if we only wanted to deal w/these 2 teams?

Horrible underselling by GS here... there is only one legitimate NBA starter in the group and we're giving him away for the worst contract of the group. Where's the incentive, ANY incentive, to make this deal from our end?

Of course there is zero incentive. At least the prior stupid/weak deals GSW has done were moving 30 yr old guys who were talent but had the $10 mill per contracts to show for it. Ellis is a higher level talent and far younger. You can only strip down payroll to the CBA limit. Even if selling a team,the REALITY is that the sort of folks who spend to own a team,are not looking to

"If we needed to trade Monta"......of course we don't NEED to, There's a demented mindset that says GSW has to strive to be the face of STUPIDITY. GSW could take the more sane path,try to actually GET GOOD,rather than always sabotaging any progress made. Ellis had to sacrifice his best most efficient game due to a mix of injuries,guys lost in trades,a revolving door process of rookies,D-league auditions.
Forcing things trying to be a volume scorer,is hardly his normal game. He got stuck with that. Sure...a team can DUMP anyone and everyone,but it's ignorant and foolish to see that as the whole agenda.

Toronto? Toronto has few trade chips and none that help GSW. This? This brings in ATL,yet still NOTHING of any use goes to GSW. Bibby? Why would GSW want to pay him as a no-future backup?

[old rem]

+1. The Ellis-Curry guard tandem was the very least of the Warriors concerns based upon their production last season.

I did not see lots of GSW games, but are you sure ?
Their own production, maybe, but their impact (taking opponent production too) ?

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910GSW.HTM
Says Ellis gives -11pts differential, when you have lots of players in positive like Morrow, Watson, Tolliver, Turiaf... who played a lot. Or did these guys played only in garbage time for half the game ? It can't be that.

If Golden State were interested in Marvin Williams, the first thing the Warriors should do is deal directly with Atlanta and cut the Raptors completely out of this deal.

Would you prefer only Marvin or Marvin and other players ?
I don't find any deal that could look interesting for both teams ( and I even don't know if this rumor is based on dumping salaries for ATL or trying to improve), so better ask you what do you prefer : clearing some salaries, getting only Marvin,...

I did not like Marvin in college. Apathetic D. Has muscles yet soft in a crowd. Has no use to GSW. Maggette was way better. Azubuike is better. Trying to fool with secondary stats like +/- for a GSW team where at times 2/3 of the rotation was missing or playing injured,where scrub 3rd stringers and rookies had to play big roles,where players like Ellis,Maggette had to try to play 40+ min and score "volume" at the expense of efficiency.....is meaningless. I DID see 90-95% of the GSW games. Monta Ellis is a rare talent who is unusually versatile and adaptable. He had too play excessive minutes since there often was less than half a team available. Since GSW had a sub .500 record and he was usually in the game,it's impossible for him to have a good +/-.

SO WHAT?

The reality is that Ellis is a VERY good young player and the Warrior's G situation is just fine.
GSW has done NOTHING but dump salary for YEARS and so all progress made by getting good young players has been offset by trading off the starting veterans for deadweight DNP junk. Yes...a team CAN annually purge the best scorer,the second and third best scorer,get rid of anyone who rebounds,"unload" the role guys who'd blended well. You CAN do that and get back guys other teams are shopping for good reasons. You CAN do that. You can trade a Porsche for a Yugo too...but WHY ?

I'd rather play Reggie Williams at SF than Marvin Williams. We HAVE Reggie and he's low $. Marvin will be paid more than he is worth,and won't ADD a damn thing.

[old rem]

If we needed to trade Monta... this is the return we'd get? Or this is the return we'd get if we only wanted to deal w/these 2 teams?

Horrible underselling by GS here... there is only one legitimate NBA starter in the group and we're giving him away for the worst contract of the group. Where's the incentive, ANY incentive, to make this deal from our end?

^ i agree, Monta is a great talent, but his skills sets make it hard for him to team up with other players; Aaron Brooks/Ellis, Rose/Ellis, Roy/Ellis, Evan Turner/Ellis, Devin Harris/Ellis, Granger/Ellis, etc i don't think works well, so alot of team might not be willing to take Ellis' long contract..... just depends if the Warriors want to build around Curry or Monta, or if someone really thinks that a backcourt of Curry/Ellis could really work

The last game of the year,GSW's Ellis-Curry backcourt scored 76 on Portland. COULD WORK ? What's the threshold here? If they had combined for 100 then maybe that's workable? Damn.

If Ellis/Curry can combine for 40-45 pt per,13-15 asst,and both are top 5 in steals...I can live with that. That Bunk about Monta not "teaming up" with whoever? WTF? He can do what he needs to on a basketball court. He is NOT an Iverson clone. He knows basketball and wants to be a winner and a good player. His toolbox has all the good stuff. There's NO question he can team up with whoever. He did fine with Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, guys who were ball dominating. GSW has been a revolving door team and one thing that's been consistant is Ellis playing well with whoever is here.

[Harry10]

+1. The Ellis-Curry guard tandem was the very least of the Warriors concerns based upon their production last season. If Golden State were interested in Marvin Williams, the first thing the Warriors should do is deal directly with Atlanta and cut the Raptors completely out of this deal.

i don't think it is more about tandem, but more about system. it would be great if the Warriors could do what the Suns did with Nash and put some non-ball dominate shooters around him like QRich, and Joe, and a super athletic big like Amare and Marion.

i'm okay with a Marvin and Bibby (or Zaza) trade from Monta. but bring in a 3rd team is for more of a benefit for the Hawks than the Rap. the 3 team deal, helps the Hawks become a player in the market along with CHI and NYC. i'm really not excited about giving Joe an Allen Houston contract, i would like to see the Hawks make an effort to get a free agent that is better than Joe, but with that said, i wouldn't be totally disappointed if the Hawks went into next season with a Joe/Monta back court, it will be good, but i don't think it will win a championship.

[BringBackKorver]

The last game of the year,GSW's Ellis-Curry backcourt scored 76 on Portland. COULD WORK ?

Well they scored 76 on a Portland team that at the 1 and 2 had Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Travis Diener, and Patrick Mills. Any of them even average defenders? Nope.

And defending the paint at center / PF they had the devastating combo of Juwan Howard, Dante Cunningham, and Jeff Pendergraph.

I don't mind you using a good game to point out that they can play together, but please don't use an example where they played against the worst defensive lineup in the league for one night against bench players in a game that meant nothing to the other team.

I think they can work fine together, but this game isn't proof of any sorts.

[don nelson]

The last game of the year,GSW's Ellis-Curry backcourt scored 76 on Portland. COULD WORK ?

Well they scored 76 on a Portland team that at the 1 and 2 had Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Travis Diener, and Patrick Mills. Any of them even average defenders? Nope.

And defending the paint at center / PF they had the devastating combo of Juwan Howard, Dante Cunningham, and Jeff Pendergraph.

I don't mind you using a good game to point out that they can play together, but please don't use an example where they played against the worst defensive lineup in the league for one night against bench players in a game that meant nothing to the other team.

I think they can work fine together, but this game isn't proof of any sorts.

FYI, when Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry both played in games during the months of March and April of the 2010 season each of these players averaged more than 22 and less than 23 points.

[nflBLITZ2000]

what made you think that jack/belinelli is a better package than mayo/thabeet?

[BringBackKorver]

FYI, when Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry both played in games during the months of March and April of the 2010 season each of these players averaged more than 22 and less than 23 points.

Exactly. And that's a much better example of them working together than a game against the Portland B team.

[Mr Swagtastic]

The Raps would need to take Turiaf or Vlad for it to work and Jose Calderon becomes the most expensive backup PG in the league.

Now your getting greedy, Monta Ellis is a fantastic scorer and good playmaker. Sure he's owed a ton of money over the next few years but Jack and Bellinelli are not the greatest trade assists as well.

Toronto gets a great deal here they would be stupid to turn this down a nice young core of Bargnani/Amir Johnson/Ed Davis/Monta/Weems/+ what we get for a S&T Bosh isn't that bad. (Lets hope it's not Beasley and Chalmers)

[Harry10]

The last game of the year,GSW's Ellis-Curry backcourt scored 76 on Portland. COULD WORK ?

Well they scored 76 on a Portland team that at the 1 and 2 had Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Travis Diener, and Patrick Mills. Any of them even average defenders? Nope.

And defending the paint at center / PF they had the devastating combo of Juwan Howard, Dante Cunningham, and Jeff Pendergraph.

I don't mind you using a good game to point out that they can play together, but please don't use an example where they played against the worst defensive lineup in the league for one night against bench players in a game that meant nothing to the other team.

I think they can work fine together, but this game isn't proof of any sorts.

FYI, when Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry both played in games during the months of March and April of the 2010 season each of these players averaged more than 22 and less than 23 points.

okay, but how many wins were their and how was the defense?

[Harry10]

what made you think that jack/belinelli is a better package than mayo/thabeet?

it is not Jack and Belinelli, it is Marvin and Belinelli. but Mayo would not work with Curry, because he is the exact same player as Monta, 6'3, ball dominate SG. a Monta for Mayo trade is just redundant. the Griz like Thabeet, because they got him at #2, but their are a handful of teams that see low valued project.

Monta is a great talent, but his skill sets give him a low value, because it is best to team him up with a Penny Hardaway or Scotty Pippen type of PG.