1981/1984 Draft for Dallas - Mark Aguirre over Isiah Thomas

JordansBulls · Post #1 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:07 pm

How come these drafts never gets mentioned as a mistake on Dallas's part?

They took Mark Aguirre over Isiah Thomas in 1981
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1981.html

And 3 years later they took Sam Perkins over Charles Barkley
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1984.html

Usually we always hear about Portland's drafting, but what about Dallas's? Imagine them having Isiah Thomas and Charles Barkley together in the 80's.

Post #2 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 10:43 pm

Well, one of the big factors with Portland is that Jordan was considered the 2nd best prospect in the draft, and they chose not to take him due to fit issues. I'm not as familiar with the other situations, but if Dallas was picking the players most would have picked, it doesn't make quite as much sense to ask "What if?", because part of the reason to ask that is to imply "Those guys were idiots."

Laimbeer · Post #3 » by **Laimbeer** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:53 am

I applaud Dallas' choice of Aguirre over Isiah.

Post #4 » by **studcrackers** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 5:55 am

believe me, people in dallas remember this, also we took detleff schremf over karl malone in 85. also in that same draft we took the big white stiff uwe blab over joe dumars

Post #5 » by **penbeast0** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 1:38 pm

One of the main reasons, to my mind the main reason, was that Isiah pulled a Steve Francis on Dallas. He said publicly before the draft that he didn't want to play there and wouldn't report and they didn't want to deal with the problems that would create (to say nothing of the ill will of the fans). So, they picked what they felt was the next best option.

JordansBulls · Post #6 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 2:59 pm

penbeast0 wrote:One of the main reasons, to my mind the main reason, was that Isiah pulled a Steve Francis on Dallas. He said publicly before the draft that he didn't want to play there and wouldn't report and they didn't want to deal with the problems that would create (to say nothing of the ill will of the fans). So, they picked what they felt was the next best option.

Is there any reason why he would have preferred to live in Detroit over Dallas as a city?

RTM · Post #7 » by **RTM** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 8:11 pm

JordansBulls wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:One of the main reasons, to my mind the main reason, was that Isiah pulled a Steve Francis on Dallas. He said publicly before the draft that he didn't want to play there and wouldn't report and they didn't want to deal with the problems that would create (to say nothing of the ill will of the fans). So, they picked what they felt was the next best option.

Is there any reason why he would have preferred to live in Detroit over Dallas as a city?

Isiah's a Midwest guy - born in Chicago, went to Indiana, played in Detroit.

That'd be my best guess. Maybe he liked what John Long and Terry Tyler brought to the table?

RTM · Post #8 » by **RTM** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 8:12 pm

And as cities, both Dallas (much smaller) and Detroit (much bigger) were a lot different in the early 80s than they are today.

By the time Isiah retired, the Pistons didn't even play in the city. We haven't since.

Warspite · Post #9 » by **Warspite** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 9:30 pm

Dallas made several great trades that got them draft picks and then waisted the picks. To think they could have Isiah(81), Dumars(85), K Malone(85), Charles (84), Danny Ainge(81), Nique(82) trade, Dale Ellis (83), Drexler (83), Stockton (84), AC Green (85)

9- 1st rd picks in 5 drafts. 7 of them lottery picks.

Isiah, Stockton, Ainge
Drexler, Dumars,
Nique,Ellis
Charles, AC Green
K Malone

Still missing a C but make a trade or 2 and your ready to win 5-10 titles.

JordansBulls · Post #10 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:39 pm

Warspite wrote:Dallas made several great trades that got them draft picks and then waisted the picks. To think they could have Isiah(81), Dumars(85), K Malone(85), Charles (84), Danny Ainge(81), Nique(82) trade, Dale Ellis (83), Drexler (83), Stockton (84), AC Green (85)

9- 1st rd picks in 5 drafts. 7 of them lottery picks.

Isiah, Stockton, Ainge
Drexler, Dumars,
Nique,Ellis
Charles, AC Green
K Malone

Still missing a C but make a trade or 2 and your ready to win 5-10 titles.

Damn, but at least they got one draft right by trading Tracker Traylor for Dirk.

Deus · Post #11 » by **Deus** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:32 am

Is the Isiah hating Dallas story true? I always thought it was because Motta preferred an offense centered around a SF.

ahonui06 · Post #12 » by **ahonui06** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:10 am

Because the Nelsons/Cuban weren't part of the Dallas organization. Nelson concocted one of the greatest draft day trades in NBA history with Traylor/Garrity for DIRK. Bucks got killed on that deal for sure.

Jonny Blaze · Post #13 » by **Jonny Blaze** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:32 am

One of the main reasons, to my mind the main reason, was that Isiah pulled a Steve Francis on Dallas. He said publicly before the draft that he didn't want to play there and wouldn't report and they didn't want to deal with the problems that would create (to say nothing of the ill will of the fans). So, they picked what they felt was the next best option.

Ive heard this also.

The story I heard was that Somebody gave Isaish a Cowboy hat on his trip to Dallas and he was like "Im not into all that crap"

But the OP is making it sound like Mark Agguire sucked.

Dude was damn good while he was with the Mavericks and was one of the better players in the NBA.

Todays equivalent comparison would be chastising a team for taking Amare Stoudamire or Carmelo Anthony over Chris Paul or Steve Nash.

These were his stats while in Dallas

1981–82 Dallas 51 20 28.8 .465 .352 .680 4.9 3.2 .7 .4 18.7
1982–83 Dallas 81 75 34.4 .483 .211 .728 6.3 4.1 1.0 .3 24.4
1983–84 Dallas 79 79 36.7 .524 .268 .749 5.9 4.5 1.0 .3 29.5
1984–85 Dallas 80 79 33.7 .506 .318 .759 6.0 3.1 .8 .3 25.7
1985–86 Dallas 74 73 33.8 .503 .286 .705 6.0 4.6 .8 .2 22.6
1986–87 Dallas 80 80 33.3 .495 .353 .770 5.3 3.2 1.1 .4 25.7
1987–88 Dallas 77 77 33.9 .475 .302 .770 5.6 3.6 .9 .7 25.1
1988–89 Dallas 44 44 34.8 .450 .293 .730 5.3 4.3 .7 .7 21.7

To answer the OP's question.

The reason people dont give the Mavs grief when they took Aguire over Isaiah.....is that people are hard pressed to insult this team when the player they selected averages 29.5 ppg in his 3rd NBA season

EwwItsRasho · Post #14 » by **EwwItsRasho** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:40 am

Aguirre averaged 30ppg one season, hardly any sort of bust.

Jonny Blaze · Post #15 » by **Jonny Blaze** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:03 am

Dallas made several great trades that got them draft picks and then waisted the picks. To think they could have Isiah(81), Dumars(85), K Malone(85), Charles (84), Danny Ainge(81), Nique(82) trade, Dale Ellis (83), Drexler (83), Stockton (84), AC Green (85)

9- 1st rd picks in 5 drafts. 7 of them lottery picks.

Isiah, Stockton, Ainge
Drexler, Dumars,
Nique,Ellis
Charles, AC Green
K Malone

This really isnt fair to the 1980's Dallas Mavericks.

The only big mistake was not selecting Karl Malone in 1985.

Hindsight is 20/20......but your reasoning would be sound if they drafted busts.
But they drafted a slew of guys that turned out to be very good players.

Mark Aguire
Jay Vincent
Rolando Blackmon
Derek Harper

were all damn good players.

Sam Perkins and Detlef Schrempf were solid players also.

Post #16 » by **penbeast0** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:02 am

Hey, at least Sam Perkins was a good player and a decent return on his draft position, the Bullets/Wizards picked Kenny effin Green when all of us in the building were chanting for Malone. And our only #1 pick, Kwame Brown, was no Mark Aquirre either.

easiestplayfts · Post #17 » by **easiestplayfts** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:38 am

Well at least Mark Aguirre won 2 chips wth the Pistons.

2011Champs · Post #18 » by **2011Champs** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:56 pm

Laimbeer wrote:I applaud Dallas' choice of Aguirre over Isiah.

This. Mark Aguirre was golden.

I agree the only real mistake was not picking Karl Malone.

JordansBulls · Post #19 » by **JordansBulls** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:01 pm

easiestplayfts wrote:Well at least Mark Aguirre won 2 chips wth the Pistons.

Yes, but Isiah was the one who turned the franchise around.

JerkyWay · Post #20 » by **JerkyWay** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:39 pm

Was Isiah really that much better than Aguirre? Not nearly as much as many think. He posted approximately 30/6/5 on 52.4% from the field in 1983-84 season. That's scary statline. There's very few guys who have done that, ever.

I'm not a fan of criticizing draft picks, in general. It's like - you never know how specific player will develop, and even the best scouts shouldn't be blamed for this. It's pure luck thing.

JordansBulls wrote:Yes, but Isiah was the one who turned the franchise around.

Of course, but who knew that back in 1981? It's easy to criticize when you know a history.