Possibility...trade idea PHX/POR/PHI

[SideSwipe]

Merge or lock if needed if there is someplace else this should go but, I have been doing one last shot at thinking about firming up our front line using Mareese Speights as a target and came up with:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=2agm4nd

PHX trades:
Duds, Richardson, Clark
PHX receives:
Speights, Young, Kapono, Fernandez, Smith

PHI trades:
Speights, Young, Smith, Kapono
PHI receives:
Richardson, Clark, Cunningham

POR trades:
Fernandez, Cunningham
POR receives:
Dudley

Nash/ Dragic/ Janning
Fernandez/ Childress
Hill/ Young/ Kapono
Turk/ Speights/ Warrick/ Lawal
Lopez/ Frye/ Smith

PHX trades in Richardson's expiring for a multitude of youth at the forward positions and takes a gamble on a proven international winner that fits PHX's style perfectly. If Fernandez can't be successful in PHX in this situation, he never will be and might as well buy his tickets to Espana. PHX reloads on the front line with Speights and Young to join Warrick and Chilldress as rim-rockers giving PHX some around the rim finishers. PHX could compete as the team with the most dunkers in the league taking advantage of Nash's still amazing passing and giving Turk and Hill more options as well. The lineup would have a lot of different ways of playing and would have height to go against tall lineups, or speed to go against smaller and faster lineups while maintaining high-quality shooters. BIG Question...is it worth it? Not completely convinced, but wanted to draw out Speights options while incorporating Fernandez's game to PHX, his most likely destination to succeed(meaning also win while helping lead) in. The cost for PHX is high especially considering playoff performances from JRICH and Duds, but the hole at the 4 still is a bit of a concern and adding youth and athleticism on players that can grown with the team at the same time was interesting enough for me to make a go of it.

Holiday/ Williams/ Meeks
Richardson/ Turner/ Green
Iguoudala/ Nocioni/ Cunningham
Brand/ Clark
Hawes/ Battie

PHI capitalizes on some fo their youth and exchanges it for maximum quality at the wing, while still returning some good potential at the 3 and 4 in Cunningham and Clark. Collins gets a team with a chance for the playoffs instead of settling for the lottery once again. Collins will revive Brand, get production from Holiday and with the addition of Richardson, Iguoudala can play at the 3 spot and Hawes will be able to open up his game with added minutes.

POR gets rid of unwanted Rudy at the cost of Cunningham, but adds a great shooting defensive 3 to go along with Batum and give Babbit a while to grow into his spot.

Let me know what you think.

[MaryvalesFinest]

Sounds good from the Suns side

[DirtyDez]

If i'm giving up J-Rich for a PF i want a SG of the future coming back as well (i don't think Rudy is that guy). All those guys coming back are expiring.

If we're dealing with Philly i like my J-Rich/Turk/Warrick for Iggy/Brand deal more. The medical staff cleans up Brand and he finshes his career with Nash. Iggy/Lebron are the only two players to average 17/7/6+ last season. Despite their contracts that team would contend and make lots of money for Sarver in the playoffs. I want to see Nash with a true defensive supporting cast behind him. Plus we keep Dragic/Lopez/Dudley...

[SideSwipe]

Speights has a TO for next year, Fernandez too and Young, Smith are RFA, giving PHX options. Kapono is UFA after this year, but all Bird rights will come with each of those players coming over Giving PHX flexibility to sign or not sign whom they choose. I like Speights youth and athleticism in the PNR with Nash more than Brand; though I do prefer Brand's dependability, back-to-the basket game and leadership.

[DirtyDez]

I'd prefer the Iggy/Brand deal because they're proven players although the twin towers idea of Speights/Lopez gives us a shotblocking tandem in the paint. I just think we're giving up too much. If we could substitute a 1st for Dudley or Clark i'd like it more. In terms of defense on the perimeter Iggy>JRich>Rudy. We saw how bad Rudy got abused in the playoffs but he can be a brilliant offensive player at times.

[DRK]

Done deal. Where do I sign. Even though we're giving up Clark, we're also gaining youth back in Mareese Speights.

[lilfishi22]

Speights has a TO for next year, Fernandez too and Young, Smith are RFA, giving PHX options. Kapono is UFA after this year, but all Bird rights will come with each of those players coming over Giving PHX flexibility to sign or not sign whom they choose. I like Speights youth and athleticism in the PNR with Nash more than Brand; though I do prefer Brand's dependability, back-to-the basket game and leadership.

The youth coming in looks nice but I don't see Philly doing it. Young, Speights and Smith are all great value young talents, why get rid of them just for an expiring contract? What they want is to get rid of their long-term contracts like Brand and Iggy and start off fresh.

I'd prefer the Iggy/Brand deal because they're proven players although the twin towers idea of Speights/Lopez gives us a shotblocking tandem in the paint. I just think we're giving up too much. If we could substitute a 1st for Dudley or Clark i'd like it more. In terms of defense on the perimeter Iggy>JRich>Rudy. We saw how bad Rudy got abused in the playoffs but he can be a brilliant offensive player at times.

I like the idea of moving JRich/Warrick/Turk for Iggy/Brand, but I'm still super hesitant because Brand isn't even close to what he used to be. Brand couldn't play more than 31mpg (30 last season) in a system that's ranked 23rd in pace, how would he do in an uptempo system like ours? Brand is 30 already and still owed $15,959,099 this coming season, $17,059,726 the season after and $18,160,354 in his last season, that's a total of $51,179,179. Considering our lack of depth at the 4 and his hefty price tag, we'll need him to play more than 32mpg.

Hedo, on the other hand, is also 30 and his contract still runs for another 4 season (last season is a PO)but he's only in the books for $44m if he picks up his PO and $31.8m if he doesn't. Not only is he a better fit for us, he's also cheaper too. I'd rather risk going forward with Hedo than with Brand.

I'd much rather just cut Portland out of the deal considering Fernandez, as much as I like him, *can't* be our starting SG. He's a great player off the bench in the same way LB did but as a starter, no. So cut Portland out and just do a JRich/Iggy trade.

[sunfire0112]

I don't see Philly doing this. They have no need for JRich with Iggy and Turner. Trading away both Speights and Young also depletes them of front court depth/youth.

[SideSwipe]

Philly's take would definitely need to be considered, of course, but the thinking is that even though Turner looks like a good prospect, he didn't have a great Summer league and may need a year to ge tused to everything. With Turner in, there is still a big question mark for the team. With Jrich, Brand and Iguodala playing together the risk is minimized and Collins has a decent chance of making the playoffs the first year. Another option is if it is far off in value would be to remove Young and Clark from the deal.

Nash/ Dragic/ Janning
Fernandez/ Childress
Turk/ Hill/ Kapono/ Clark
Speights/ Warrick/ Lawal
Lopez/ Frye/ Smith

[lilfishi22]

Fair enough if Turner needs to come off the bench his first season but giving up all that young talent and depth for one year of JRich? Also, I think they value Speights more than Young.

[SideSwipe]

I haven't trolled over to the PHI board recently, but I had thought they had soured on Speights some this last season, and honestly to bring his game into perspective he has shown flashes, but has not been consistent from an effort stand point. The greats are already great by his age and tenure in the league, so the bloom is off the rose a little bit. Paired with Nash, though with a simple gameplan, he could be very good still. What do you think of value. We remove Clark and they remove Young. Speights is the target, so value should be established around him

[lilfishi22]

He's not going to be as good as Pau Gasol or KG but he's a young big with plenty of potential. Keep in mind, he's still only 22 and has a lot of room to grow considering he's only played 16mpg in his 1st two seasons. I'm not sure if the Sixers have soured on him or not but I know that they did like him a lot. If we could get him for JRich, I'm all for it, but I don't see it happening.

But that really isn't the point. The point is that JRich is negative value if they have to give up youth for him. Expiring deals are only of value if you move an undesirable contract for it. In the end, they would still have Iggy and Brand's deal in the books if they move their young guys for JRich's expiring. I think their main priority is still to get rid of Brand's deal and if not, try to get as much back as they can for Iggy.

[DirtyDez]

Philly's trying to get rid of big contracts. They won't deal a cheap player like Speights unless he's packaged with a bigger contract. I wish there was a way to get Iggy and Speights.

[Nando88]

i think rudy would FLOURISH with us... not a good system for his game in portland

[SideSwipe]

I get the feeling that Doug Collins will go win now...that means trading in youth for experience, at least the is the precept this exercize is based on.

[lilfishi22]

Coaches have very little say in FO decisions so even if they want to win now and trade youth for proven vets, the FO won't make the moves. If a big move is to be made it's because the FO found a deal to help the team, not because the coach asked for a new roster. Like DD said, no young talent on the Sixers roster will be moved unless packaged with one of their big contracts.

[SideSwipe]

I think coaches of Doug Collins stature do have a say, and they probably talked about it before he was hired. Coaches like Collins aren't 20 year system coaches, like are bring it hard, bring it fast playoff performance coaches. He is not really a talent developer, he is a fine-tuning kind of coach that will need vets to get the job done. "I may be wrong but I'm not.."CB I don't think Collins left his posh job to babysit youth while they learn their spots. I think he is there to help them mould the team (via trade and otherwise) into a plyoff contender and winner now. PHI has been terrible for 10 years now, it;s time to reverse their fortunes with their favorite son and return to former glory. With Thorn on board and Collins on board, I think we will see that happen. Thorn also didn't leave his "lucrative offer" with blank billionaire checks to go to a full rebuilding effort, they will team up to get more experience and take on more veterans. That's what I think anyway. They may take until February to do it, but I think they will. With Brand solid at the starting 4 spot, and Hawes at the 5, I think Speights will go, maybe Young with him.

[BurningHeart]

The trade isn't a "possibility", it's just an idea.

[lilfishi22]

I agree Collins isn't the type to develope youngsters but you have to look at it from FO point of view, they are financially tied until they move their big contracts so even if Collins wants a new roster, the FO can only do so much. I think Collins took the job because he dropped the ball on passing on the Chicago job and he doesnt want to make same mistake again. He's a good coach but the FO can't jeopardize the franchises future just because they have a chance to make playoffs.

[laydo]

The Sixers will turn it down in no time.