The Fess Mess

[HolyToledo]

He has several offers from europe for 1 mil euros as well as a 1 year qualifying offer from the Jazz for 1.1 mil. Other teams have not signed him to offer sheet because it is clear the Jazz would match it. If he was unrestricted, he would likley get 3 year 9 mill guaranteed contract at the very least. He cant be too happy with the Jazz hard line negotiation stance!!!

Why dont the Jazz lock him up for 3 years at 2-3 mil per year? Next summer he is a unrestricted free agent and may not want to sign with the Jazz or might be much more expensive to sign as other teams (such as the Knicks or Nets) might over pay for him.

I simply do not like the way KOC handles the free agent process!!! He lets the other teams set the market value instead of projecting what a player would get and sign him early in the process at a lower projected price.

In any case, Fess is likely will take the Jazz qualifying offer at 1.1 mil and leave for greener ($) pastures next summer expecially if he has a good season this year.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17167

[JoyDivision]

In any case, Fess is likely will take the Jazz qualifying offer at 1.1 mil and leave for greener ($) pastures next summer expecially if he has a good season this year.

Exactly. I've talked to his housekeeper/babysitter and he said the exact same thing. Apparently Fes only want a few hundred thousand more a season but the Jazz are unwilling to offer him that. Fes is really excited to play with Jefferson; he thinks that if anything Jefferson will help push him - something I'm told Okur has the inability to do.

[erudite23]

Give me a break. Fess is a borderline NBA player right now and I would hardly give a crap if he simply walked. You don't get caught overpaying for players like him. That's how the Jerome Jameses of the league end up making 30m over 5 years without hardly ever getting on the court. The chances of Fess ever making anything serious of himself are very slim. Otherwise, we can get 80 or 90 percent of Fess' production for the league minimum somewhere else. This is why KOC gets millions to run the show and Holy Toledo gets ridiculed on message boards where he posts for free.

[kamazilla]

I simply do not like the way KOC handles the free agent process!!!

Agreed- in that I think the way the Jazz negotiate with their own free agents has proven inefficient, and KOC neglects to adopt a more effective strategy. Given Utah's market and cultural concerns, they simply must have the ability to retain their own players in order to remain competitive. I hope it doesn't bite them in the a$$ next summer if Fes ends up playing for the qualifying offer.

[Xsy]

To be honest, I'm not too broken up about it. The only thing Fes can do well is clog the lane, but that just comes naturally for a guy that size.

He's a work in progress-- I love that Utah is giving him a shot, but it definitely doesn't warrant immediate action.

[HammerDunk]

I don't consider signing a worthless piece of meat a priority. If someone else wants to overpay for his useless ass, then so be it.

[Spre_4_3]

How would you expect to attract/recruit players to the Jazz if, as a GM, you were signing players to the absolute minimum by signing them early for long-term contracts? Maybe O'Connor believes in trying to pay the player what he's worth so that it's as close to a fair deal as possible and it's a win-win for all parties involved. I wouldn't doubt that there are reasons to the stalling or reluctance. Maybe they have their eye on someone else, not know but later, or maybe they're trying to work a trade. So many people were critical of O'Connor when he didn't draft big and it turned out he had a better plan in the works. Trust in the man, he knows what he's doing.

[Phenom415]

Whether or not Fes is on this team for the coming season affects me not at all.

[erudite23]

This is a joke.

O'Connor knows exactly what he's doing. Player agents ask for what they believe their player's "market value" to be. The only way a player gets signed early in the process is if the team believes that to be the case as well. Now, I ask you, given the fact that the agent has every reason to inflate that "market value" assessment, would you think its likely that it ends up being a fair value? Probably not.

O'Connor takes a course that is far safer--most of the time. Wesley Matthews is one of the few examples where we got burned for it, since I think it likely that we could have gotten him for less than the full MLE. Still....you can't plan for that kind of stuff. Paying Wes more than 4m a year was, to me, a huge mistake. Given the fact that he got about 15m more than that, you can't do anything but throw your hands in the air and shrug. Millsap was asking for more than what he was ultimately given by Portland. Had the Jazz jumped on him, we would be paying close to 10m per season for him, imo. We waited it out and ended up getting him for 8m per....and would have gotten him for even less had the Trailblazers not purposefully jacked the price up on him.

I love how the Jazz approach FA. There's a damn good reason that we haven't had a single FA dud in the last 6+ seasons or so. Take your complaining somewhere else. It doesn't make any sense.

[countrybama24]

Totally agree erudite.

This also isn't a KOC invention. Most NBA teams do the exact same thing with restricted free-agents. It's pretty standard fare to let your restricted set their price. The rockets, hawks, grizzlies did the same thing this summer, and 90% of teams do that for most restricteds.

Sure, we got burned on the wes matthews thing. Hindsight is 20-20. We should have offered him 1-3 mil a year the moment we knew he was starter quality. But in general, KOC is great, and the conservative nature of the Jazz HAS kept us in the playoffs nearly every year.

Having said that, I think we still have to take a few more FA / trade risks than we have in the past. A starting center who blocks shots aren't available without some risks involved (injury, personality issues, development, etc), and since we can't win a championship without one of those (or another all-star or 2) then we should be a little more daring in our moves / conctracts.

[babyjax13]

He has several offers from europe for 1 mil euros as well as a 1 year qualifying offer from the Jazz for 1.1 mil. Other teams have not signed him to offer sheet because it is clear the Jazz would match it. If he was unrestricted, he would likley get 3 year 9 mill guaranteed contract at the very least. He cant be too happy with the Jazz hard line negotiation stance!!!

Why dont the Jazz lock him up for 3 years at 2-3 mil per year? Next summer he is a unrestricted free agent and may not want to sign with the Jazz or might be much more expensive to sign as other teams (such as the Knicks or Nets) might over pay for him.

I simply do not like the way KOC handles the free agent process!!! He lets the other teams set the market value instead of projecting what a player would get and sign him early in the process at a lower projected price.

In any case, Fess is likely will take the Jazz qualifying offer at 1.1 mil and leave for greener ($) pastures next summer expecially if he has a good season this year.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17167

While we're at it why don't we give AK an extension. Maybe $20,000,000 a year will do it?

[carrottop12]

Everyone needs to realize that motivation is a huge question mark when it comes to Fes, and guys with questionable motivation tend to play worse after receiving large contracts, not better. Giving an immature 23 year old 5+ million or what have you is an extreme risk. Let him "settle" for $1.1 and see how he continues to improve.

[ColdBlue]

The gamble here is if Fes has a good year and by saving money now will make us pay more later. It seems like another hedge bet... like the FO expects Fes to fail. If thats the case, then shouldn't we be looking for someone else?

[carrottop12]

Right now offering him money is a high risk high reward type situation, and the problem is the Jazz can't afford to be a high risk team.

Honestly, what is Fes's peak? He's the kind if player IMO that if you have as your starting C, every year in the draft you are hoping to get a guy in the first round to replace him,. Honestly, I don't see him as being much better than a guy like Aaron Gray at this point, and those kinds of guys can be had relatively easily.

I just don't see him as having the mental drive to become the player he could be. His ambition and competitiveness aren't through the roof, so I don't see him becoming a whole lot more than he was in the playoffs.

$1.1 is fair for a 5/5/1 Center which is what Fes will give us next year.

[The59Sound]

It's just not realistic that Fes will the kind of season that will make him worth more than 3 million dollars a year next summer. So if that's what it would take to lock him up long-term right now, we have no incentive not to just wait and see how he does this year. As for whether we should be looking elsewhere, we've already sunken so much time into him that it only makes sense to see how this year shapes up, when all we'll be spending is the QO.

[JDubJazz]

I don't think the Jazz believe Fesenko has a long-term future with the organization. If they can get him back this year as cheap roster-filler, then so be it, but they aren't going to give a player with questionable motivation and work-ethic a multi-year deal.

If I had to guess, the Jazz's plans are to bring back Fess this year as a stop-gap until they can bring over Tomic next season.

[MeestR]

I love how the Jazz approach FA. There's a damn good reason that we haven't had a single FA dud in the last 6+ seasons or so. Take your complaining somewhere else. It doesn't make any sense.

it's a good "on-base" percentage for sure. but it's still waiting for the fast-ball down the middle to even swing. the jazz have been struck out a few times by pitchers throwing high and tight and koc watching the ball go into the catchers glove. but koc will tell you, when he swings at those fastballs, he almost always gets on base.

small market teams have to play it conservative in the offseason. and our "successful" record during the season is nothing to sneeze at. but, no risks=no reward/no failure. (who led the majors in SO's when Ruth hit his 60 HR?)

[Leithid]

I love how the Jazz approach FA. There's a damn good reason that we haven't had a single FA dud in the last 6+ seasons or so. Take your complaining somewhere else. It doesn't make any sense.

it's a good "on-base" percentage for sure. but it's still waiting for the fast-ball down the middle to even swing. the jazz have been struck out a few times by pitchers throwing high and tight and koc watching the ball go into the catchers glove. but koc will tell you, when he swings at those fastballs, he almost always gets on base.

small market teams have to play it conservative in the offseason. and our "successful" record during the season is nothing to sneeze at. but, no risks=no reward/no failure. (who led the majors in SO's when Ruth hit his 60 HR?)

Fes barely deserves more than the vetmin. Heck, the only reason he deserves more than the vetmin is because the time he's already spent in Sloan's complicated system. Let him take his QO and get somebody else when he leaves next season. Just because there are teams willing to overpay Fes doesn't mean UTA ought to overpay him. Top D-League talent gets paid top D-League money. I rather raid the Rio Grande Valley Vipers' roster and give a D-League big a chance to show that he wants to play in the NBA than overpay a D-League level player who thinks he already belongs in the NBA without trying.

I believe in low-risk swings HOU style in the $1 mil to $1.5 mil a year 2+1+1 team options contracts J-Taylor/C-Bud/etc. gets. Your risk-reward analogy would apply to such signings. Fes had his low-risk contract and proved that he didn't deserve more. At this point Fes is a proven marginal, so you offer him proven marginal money. Risk/reward would have been signing Wesley Matthews to a 2+1+1 team option deal before he proved he had the will to make it in the NBA. Signing Fes to $2 mil per now would not be taking a low-risk for a high-reward; it would be overpaying for the certainty of a marginal.

[ColdBlue]

If I had to guess, the Jazz's plans are to bring back Fess this year as a stop-gap until they can bring over Tomic next season.

Good point about Tomic. I would bet that this is the plan.

[Matt007b]

Looks like Fesenko is coming back... least my opinion anyway.. he posted this on his facebook

"Coming back to SLC on 9th of September!!! Miss ya all!!!"