Scottie Pippen vs LeBron James!?

[spena]

Would Scottie be able to shut down LeBron?
If so, who is the all-around better player not considering accomplishments, and stats?

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I think Pippen is really underrated on these boards, his defense was amazing! He'd easily shut down LeBron, and on offense they're about even, LeBron just gets more free throws.

Give me Scottie.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

I'ma go with Lebron. Other than an edge defensively over Lebron, Lebron is just as good or has him beat in every other category.

[Malinhion]

Not considering accomplishments or stats?

Am I supposed to judge based on hairstyle?

[Wade2k6]

Why would you discredit accomplishments and stats when evaluating who the better all-around player is? And no, Pippen wouldn't shut down LeBron. He would probably do a good job of containing him and forcing him to work hard every offensive possession, but he wouldn't shut him down.

[spena]

Not considering accomplishments or stats?

Am I supposed to judge based on hairstyle?

Judging on overall skill level, basketball IQ, physical gifts, and all other factors that
come into play when playing on the hardwood. Although I do prefer Pippen's flat top.

Why would you discredit accomplishments and stats when evaluating who the better all-around player is? And no, Pippen wouldn't shut down LeBron. He would probably do a good job of containing him and forcing him to work hard every offensive possession, but he wouldn't shut him down.

Because you can't judge Pippen's accomplishments compared to LeBron's, when LeBron
doesn't have a ring (yet) while being towered by Pippen's 6 championship year runs with the Bulls.And also, I discredited stats because Pippen's stats compared to LeBron's is miniscule, but was very efficient at the same time with the years he paired up with Jordan.

[Wade2k6]

What does having a championship have to do with LeBron or Pippen being the better all-around player or Pippens ability to shut down LeBron? LeBron is very efficient as well; during the last 3 years he has posted a higher TS% then Pippen ever did and has a higher career eFG% then Pippen (although its not by much).

[Canomad]

i am in astonishment of how people are taking this lebron=pippen thing to far. lebron IS THE SUPERIOR TALENT ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD. quit hating cuz you dont like how he went about making his decision.

[JCWalters]

In this day of no hand-checking, James' hard drives from the arc, from inside the arc, and off of picks would leave Pippen playing besides James instead of in front (although Pippens would have a better chance of staying in front than almost anyone else today). If Pippen had very good help bigs, KG, Duncan, Wallace, Mutombo, Howard, Pippen would be able to play effective perimeter d from the side. Pippen would not shut James down (it would be a James parade to the foul line), but he would consistently keep James from his averages (almost guaranteed).

As to who is the better player, Pippen is better than James by far on d, but James is better than Pippen on o by a significant but lesser margin. However, in total, James is the better player easily, b/c elite shot-creating is vastly more important than elite d (unless the d is total shut-down in that Pippen can defend James w/o help or skewing of his (pippen's) team's overall d towards containing James--in other words: effectively play James 1 on 1 like you would play an ordinary player 1 on 1).

A closer question would be James vs. Pippens under the old, lots of hand-checking, rule. Some players today would experience a big dropoff, but I don't think James will show more than a noticable but slight dropoff. Because James' driving game is based on moves to get the defender off balance, quick awareness and reaction to the off-balance, and strength to finish the shot once he gets a defender on his hip, shoulder, arm--e.g. playing from beside James.

Players who depend solely or primarily on quickness to drive will suffer the most from hand-checking--Monta Ellis (unless Ellis regains his once very reliable mid-range jumper).

Players who use technique (jab steps, fakes, rocker step, etc.) to gain an advantage over defenders will show a smaller dropoff--Carmelo, Pierce.

Players with strength wil show a smaller dropoff as well, b/c it will be harder for a defender to steer the stronger player with hand checking.

[ipoopinmypants]

What does having a championship have to do with LeBron or Pippen being the better all-around player or Pippens ability to shut down LeBron? LeBron is very efficient as well; during the last 3 years he has posted a higher TS% then Pippen ever did and has a higher career eFG% then Pippen (although its not by much).

Wow. Quite annoying you are being. He wants us to evaluate them based on first-hand experience. You know, actually seeing with your eyes what they are truly capable of that stat books cannot portray. Numbers aren't the end-all bud.

Anyway, as great as Scottie was (and me being a Bulls fan), Lebron is too great a scorer and facilitator; he is by far the better no. 1 option, and it's yet to be seen. how he does as a no. 2 (or at least sharing the load). This isn't a wash by any means IMO, but Lebron is unarguably top 40 ever, where a case (thin one at that) could be made that Scottie is not.

And don't get me wrong. I love Scottie.

[ipoopinmypants]

Oh I see. We have " What makes Lebron better that Clyde?" and "Drexler vs. Pippen", so why not complete the trifecta?

[Tim_Hardawayy]

What does having a championship have to do with LeBron or Pippen being the better all-around player or Pippens ability to shut down LeBron? LeBron is very efficient as well; during the last 3 years he has posted a higher TS% then Pippen ever did and has a higher career eFG% then Pippen (although its not by much).

Wow. Quite annoying you are being. He wants us to evaluate them based on first-hand experience. You know, actually seeing with your eyes what they are truly capable of that stat books cannot portray. Numbers aren't the end-all bud.

The issue with this is, when you eliminate numbers and accomplishments, you eliminate any chance at any sort of objectivity, and its just one guy's word against another's. That's what kills me about basketball, it's like the only sport where everyone wants to ignore the numbers to evaluate guys.

Yeah, you need to have some idea of what a player actually played like, and not having seen them makes it more difficult to know. And yeah, stats don't tell you everything. But if you look deep enough, they can tell you a LOT. You just have to take the time to understand what it is that a particular stat is telling you.

Ignoring stats is what makes people think Allen Iverson was an all-time great and deserved his MVP. Because they liked his crossover and hip-hop image, rather than what he actually produced on the court.

There is a great quote from Pat Riley...

A particular shot or way of moving the ball can be a player's personal signature, but efficiency of performance is what wins the game for the team.

And "efficiency of performance" is something that CAN be measured statistically for the most part, while "a particular shot or way of moving the ball" cannot.

[Silverwulf]

Pippen.

Lebron is stronger and he'd get to the basket, but not enough to win.
Pippen could play off Lebron and make him shoot from outside, and as an outside shooter, Lebron isn't great.

Pippen was a better 3pt shooter, so Lebron wouldn't be able to afford to play off his as much, and Lebron's "Defense" is very overrated. He's great to come from behind to block a shot, but that's about it.

In the end, Pippen's combination of outside 3pt shooting and ability to finish at the rim ... and his superior defense would win out.

[ronnymac2]

Pippen.

Lebron is stronger and he'd get to the basket, but not enough to win.
Pippen could play off Lebron and make him shoot from outside, and as an outside shooter, Lebron isn't great.

Pippen was a better 3pt shooter, so Lebron wouldn't be able to afford to play off his as much, and Lebron's "Defense" is very overrated. He's great to come from behind to block a shot, but that's about it.

In the end, Pippen's combination of outside 3pt shooting and ability to finish at the rim ... and his superior defense would win out.

[Rerisen]

I think Pippen is really underrated on these boards, his defense was amazing! He'd easily shut down LeBron, and on offense they're about even, LeBron just gets more free throws.

Give me Scottie.

Time for my guys!



Joking aside, this is LeBron easily.

Though I do think Pip could do as good as job on him as anyone I could think of. Which is true of him about guarding just about any dangerous wing player in history.

[therealbig3]

Not only would Pippen be the best defender James ever faced, he would be one of the toughest defensive assignments as well. Pippen was a guy who could score 20+ on 50% shooting. And the way he got his 20 ppg was incredibly impressive. Pippen could score literally anywhere, he had a great post game, had a decent jumper (loved that pull-up), could drive and finish, could hit the fadeaway, could bank it in, and is one of the best fast break players of all time. Not only could he do that, he could grab 7-9 boards and get 6-8 assists. LeBron would be exhausted towards the end trying to keep Pippen off the boards, while trying to keep his passing and his versatile scoring in check.

However, LeBron is clearly a better player. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Pippen held LeBron to 45% shooting and held him to 25 points/7 rebounds/8 assists...and I also wouldn't be surprised if Pippen posted the same stat line.

[Canomad]

if this thread was made around april EVERYONE would have said pshhhhhhhhh for real????? lebron and its not close. lebron hate is so unreal its laughable. even skip bayless would say lebron is better the scottie pippen without hesitation. wow the player comparison board is never a disappointment ill tell ya....

[RunMCR]

It's pretty close. Depends on what you need. I'd take Pippen right now. Lebron came into the nba and was babied by stern, media and refs from the first season onto the last one.

[Silverwulf]

if this thread was made around april EVERYONE would have said pshhhhhhhhh for real????? lebron and its not close. lebron hate is so unreal its laughable. even skip bayless would say lebron is better the scottie pippen without hesitation. wow the player comparison board is never a disappointment ill tell ya....

Lebron adoration has been way out of hand for awhile now. Don't you think it's time it came back down to reality?
Now that Lebron is going to play second fiddle to another superstar, we'll see how his game and stat line looks.
I'm betting it looks a lot closer to Pippen style numbers than what he's been putting up the past few years.
We'll see.

[SSSFreak]

In Pip's time (90's) i'd take Pip.

Modern NBA I'd take Lebron.

Pippen's physical defence (That you can't play nowadays) would frustrate and somewhat contain Lebron.