Did McGee Just Get Benched?

[dlts20]

it sounded kinda like that coming from Flip after the game. He was talking about injuries & guys showing there true colors or something and he said that maybe right now McGee is just not a starter. He said anytime we play someone good, he either gets schooled or gets in foul trouble.

Im actually starting to come around with those who say that McGee & Dray may not be the best mix, atleast not right now while Dray is soft & injuried & McGee is still a little too thin. I think Flip will start HA but I may like to see what we look like with Dray & Seraphin together. Im a McGee fan but he's regressed a ton lately. I could see him doing better coming off the bench with his energy and I think he dominates all the backup bigs in the league, espically with his new experience. I dont mind HA for now for a defensive presence but if he sucks then I hope we give Seraphin a look. Him & Dray together could be a nice duo

[dlts20]

also, feel free to merge if you want



I definetly wouldnt be upset if McGee kept his job though, atleast for awhile because he probably looks alot better with a healthy Wall pushing the rock and he will also look better when we get fully healthy in a few games and he is the last option who doesnt get any attention

[Wizards2Lottery]

[hands11]

it sounded kinda like that coming from Flip after the game. He was talking about injuries & guys showing there true colors or something and he said that maybe right now McGee is just not a starter. He said anytime we play someone good, he either gets schooled or gets in foul trouble.

Im actually starting to come around with those who say that McGee & Dray may not be the best mix, atleast not right now while Dray is soft & injuried & McGee is still a little too thin. I think Flip will start HA but I may like to see what we look like with Dray & Seraphin together. Im a McGee fan but he's regressed a ton lately. I could see him doing better coming off the bench with his energy and I think he dominates all the backup bigs in the league, espically with his new experience. I dont mind HA for now for a defensive presence but if he sucks then I hope we give Seraphin a look. Him & Dray together could be a nice duo

But this was to be expected before the season started.

I long said that Armstrong and Seraphin would compete for the starting center spot against McGee. The fact that he had an early season break out kind of quieted that prediction though.

Not sure if Flip is trying to motivate McGee or if he is serious and will make a move.

If he does make a move, I hope it is to Seraphin. Armstrong is better then most here give him credit but not better enough that I would start him. He make a decent back up though. He will set a solid screen. He will rebound. He has a move or two that look good. And he will put a body on the other player.

But if Dray is out again I think McGee would look a lot better if it was Booker, Seraphin and McGee. Then you let Armstrong replace him if he is suck.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Javale McGee is 23 years old. Javale's very good at offensive rebounding and at blocking shots.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

Code: Select all

Appearances on Leaderboards, Awards, and HonorsGlossary

Field Goal Pct            2010-11 NBA .576 (8)
Offensive Rebounds        2010-11 NBA 89 (7)
Blocks                    2010-11 NBA 53 (7)
Blocks Per Game           2010-11 NBA 2.3 (5)
Offensive Rebound Pct     2010-11 NBA 15.6 (1)
Block Pct                 2009-10 NBA 8.0 (1)  2010-11 NBA 6.2 (6)


AS OF 12/16 JAVALE MCGEE IS THE BEST OFFENSIVE REBOUNDER IN THE NBA.


.... Flip wants to bench him.

I think the coach is mistaken and needs to be replaced.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Flip is doing a bad job and based on his performance I think he needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY.

Javale averages 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3.0 blocks, 1.1 steal, and 0.7 assists per 36 minutes.
Javale's PER 19.6. League average is 15.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011WAS.HTM

McGee and Young have the highest ratings on the Wizards.

The Wizards are 6.9 points better per 48 minutes with Nick Young on the court .... BUT FLIP BRINGS HIM OFF THE BENCH AND DOESN"T PLAY HIM AS MANY MINUTES AS ARENAS, WALL, OR HINRICH.

The Wizards are 1.1 points better per 48 minutes with McGee on the court.

(They are 0.8 better with Gil on the court ..... BUT THEY ARE 2.9 WORSE WITH KIRK HINRICH IS ON THE COURT.)

FLIP NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

[Bickerstaff]

Javale had a great stretch but he's played like garbage lately. I have no problem with him being benched until he gets it going again. Saying Flip Saunders needs to be fired because he doesn't want to start a player who doesn't deserve to be starting at the moment is ridiculous.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If all I said was fire him because of McGee's benchings that would be ridiculous.

Flip has coached ten losses in eleven games.
Last season he had a fifteen game losing streak.

Tonight against a team coming in with an eight-game losing streak, his team was outscored 17-32 to start the game. The Nets had the worst record in the league. Now the Wizards do.

The simplest way for me to express my comments about Flip is I think he plays favorites and that he does not play the right combinations to maximize the team's success on a nightly basis.

If there was no Hinrich or Thornton then Flip would have to start Young at SG. Seraphin should get a lot of minutes. So should Booker.

[hands11]

I agree he totally blow the line ups for the NJ, but what other coach has had more line ups to decide on game after game and mixing something like Wall and Gil and such a young team ?

Just asking ?

Besides, we don't know that McGee is being taken out of the starting line up.

That said, many are not convinced the Dray and McGee front court is the best combination. So if your saying McGee is more important, then who is the PF ? We going to start Seraphin over Dray. I doubt it.

But Dray could benefit from a stronger body down there with him sometimes.

The combination of Booker, Seraphin and Dray could be interesting.

[dlts20]

yeah, McGee's stats are crazy good per 36 and Flip definitely has it out for him. Its always Javalle's fault and he has by far the shortest leash on the team. With that being said, if he's not going to get major minutes then maybe its best for him to come off the bench. If he's only going to get 28mpg then his numbers would probably be even better against backups and give us a much needed energy boost. Him & NY together with Kirk could be a very good 2nd unit for now, if our starters can get it together when healthy. This is just one of those things that could go either way

[nate33]

McGee is the best example in the league of "empty stats". Yes, his per-minute numbers are good, but much of it is to the detriment of the team. He leads the league in ORB% but he gives up several fast breaks a game to his counterpart because he unnecessarily crashes the offensive glass when he has no hope for the rebound. He scores a few high percentage buckets on the fast break because he sometimes shirks his defensive rebounding responsibilities so he can get out on the break.

McGee had a fabulous stretch a few weeks ago, but he's been pretty bad ever since the west coast road trip. That Toronto game was about the worst game I've ever seen from an NBA starting big man, and Nash made a fool out of him in the Phoenix game. It was embarrassing.

I don't know if McGee deserves to be benched, but I wouldn't hold it against Flip if he did so. McGee needs to be reminded again of the difference between style and substance. And let's not make it sound like sitting McGee hurt us in the NJ game. McGee was -7. Armstrong was +6. If you watched the game, it was evident that those numbers weren't flukes.

[tontoz]

McGee is the best example in the league of "empty stats". Yes, his per-minute numbers are good, but much of it is to the detriment of the team. He leads the league in ORB% but he gives up several fast breaks a game to his counterpart because he unnecessarily crashes the offensive glass when he has no hope for the rebound. He scores a few high percentage buckets on the fast break because he sometimes shirks his defensive rebounding responsibilities so he can get out on the break.

Agreed. I would like to see a little less emphasis on the offensive glass and far more focus on the defensive glass. I think defensive rebounding is the most important stat when judging his game.

[dlts20]

il said this after the game about lineup changes and it made me mad:

Gilbert Arenas, who overcame a rough start to score 19 points, agreed with Saunders's general assessment that something has to change with this team, especially with this road losing streak causing the Wizards to sink deeper into irrelevance. "You never thought it would get this far, but we lost to one of the teams that was with us, but we've got to keep fighting," he said. "I feel that some of these players do need to sit and watch the game and they'll learn, because they are not learning by playing. We're 20-something games and we're not learning. Some players need to learn, sit, watch what veterans do, then go in. When everyone's young, there's no sitting."

Im not saying he's wrong overall but Arenas needs to shut up with his Jason Campbell "its not my fault" act. I was a Campbell fan but soured on him when it was never his fault for anything. Thats how Gil sounds now. He's been worst then most of the young guys half the time and Im the biggest Gil fan there is. When is he going to say something about himself needing to do better? Its easy to pick on the young guys just like AJ did but play like crap yourself. Hopefully he realized in that 2nd half that he needs to be more aggressive. 0ft attempts in the last 3 games isnt going to cut it

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I agree he totally blow the line ups for the NJ, but what other coach has had more line ups to decide on game after game and mixing something like Wall and Gil and such a young team ?

Just asking ?

Besides, we don't know that McGee is being taken out of the starting line up.

That said, many are not convinced the Dray and McGee front court is the best combination. So if your saying McGee is more important, then who is the PF ? We going to start Seraphin over Dray. I doubt it.

But Dray could benefit from a stronger body down there with him sometimes.

The combination of Booker, Seraphin and Dray could be interesting.

Yes, that combination could be very interesting. Why couldn't Booker, Seraphin, and McGee also be very interesting?

Hands, I think the Wizards don't have players with the skill level to excel in Flip's system. When I say play McGee or Seraphin some at PF it probably and understandably makes no sense to a lot of you. I know not one of them are truly skilled like Blatche offensively. A few of you understand the sets Flip runs well. I really do not.

I think in the grand scheme of things that it would be better to have young guys play to their strengths and to not bridle them or inundate them with complicated, system-driven ball. They run like deer but IMO young guys also tend to think like deer.

I am sorry for criticizing Flip vehemently. I think he IS a fine coach so long as he has players who fit his system. He is all wrong for this team because this team has deer running around clueless and veterans who are not even average ability players. The guys who plY the way Flip likes and who he rewards with minutes simply get outplayed badly almost every game.

What I would like to see is some objectivity and equal and fair minute reductions.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee is the best example in the league of "empty stats". Yes, his per-minute numbers are good, but much of it is to the detriment of the team. He leads the league in ORB% but he gives up several fast breaks a game to his counterpart because he unnecessarily crashes the offensive glass when he has no hope for the rebound. He scores a few high percentage buckets on the fast break because he sometimes shirks his defensive rebounding responsibilities so he can get out on the break.

McGee had a fabulous stretch a few weeks ago, but he's been pretty bad ever since the west coast road trip. That Toronto game was about the worst game I've ever seen from an NBA starting big man, and Nash made a fool out of him in the Phoenix game. It was embarrassing.

I don't know if McGee deserves to be benched, but I wouldn't hold it against Flip if he did so. McGee needs to be reminded again of the difference between style and substance. And let's not make it sound like sitting McGee hurt us in the NJ game. McGee was -7. Armstrong was +6. If you watched the game, it was evident that those numbers weren't flukes.

Flip's substance is ten losses in eleven games.

Javale's substance is extremely improved rebounding--the criticism Flip leveled and even benches him for this season. On top of that, McGee fouls less. His assist and steal rates are up. He is becoming far more efficient on the court in every way. As of four or five games ago Javale had more dunks than Dwight Howard. I think he only trailed Blake Griffin and Amare Stoudemire in dunks.

Empty stats? I can play that card also to argue against Flip. He coached the Pistons with Billups, the Wallaces, Prince, and Rip Hamilton all in their prime and they had been together years and had won a championship before he got there. Before that he coached Kevin Garnett in his prime. He also coached great leaders at PG in Cassell and Terrel Brandon. Flip won with very good talent.

My take on McGee is very simple. He plays better with Wall.

If I can do something to encourage it is to say that Wall, Young, Booker, Blatche, McGee/Seraphin all on the court together in a year or two will be exciting and very competitive IMO.

[nate33]

If Flip could be benched, maybe I'd consider it. He can't. He can only be fired. I don't want him fired. Likewise, I don't want to see McGee fired either. (I could understand if he is temporarily benched, though.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Big picture is I like the way McGee picked up his rebounding when challenged by Flip. Honestly, I wish Flip would challenge Javale next to score in the paint better. To not rush his shot, and to hold his position, and to develop his touch around the basket, like Pau.

I would like McGee to develop those skills. After those he can work on his perimeter skills to develop a short jumper to freeze defenders. I want the masterful dunk artist McGee to develop a full arsenal offensively. I believe he's got it in him.

If Flip benches him but Javale rises to the challenge great.

[Nivek]

McGee is an interesting player. On paper, he looks pretty good. Looking only at centers get significant minutes, he's 7th in PER, #1 in offensive rebound rate, 9th in total rebound rate (15th in defensive boards), 3rd in blocks, 8th best in turnover rate. He is active. He does put up stats. In a sense, the numbers become doubly impressive because of how amazingly clueless he is out there. He doesn't know how to play.

Lamar Odom said it best when he said it's basketball, not run and jump. McGee can run and jump better than most guys in the league and so he gets rebounds and blocks shots and dunks the ball 2-3 times a game.

But, like so many of the Wizards players this year, his game is garbage. He doesn't know how to defend -- his focus is on blocking shots. If it's about proper positioning, holding his spot, making a rotation or challenging a shot he can't block -- he's clueless. His offensive game is embarrassingly amateurish. He's fine as long as he's catching and dunking, but his "jumper" looks like he started playing the game last week. His post moves are just awful.

My guess is that Flip is desperate for a way to get McGee to actually become a good player. Not just post some stats, but to become a substantive player who can help the team win. Right now, McGee runs and he jumps, but his running and jumping have little basketball impact because he's not a professional player in any sense except the paycheck. He posts good-looking stat lines because he's an amazing athlete on a purely physical level. The kid sure can run and jump.

[Zonkerbl]

PUH-LEEZE!!!!!!

Gilbert goes something like 0-6 in the first quarter and digs the team into a huge hole, and JaVale gets thrown under the bus. I'm calling BS.

If you're going to bench anyone, bench Heinrich and start N1 at the two.

[WizarDynasty]

mcGee needs to be benched until he knows where he should be located on the court after the 4th pass on multiple sets. he always seems lost after the 2nd pass. He just hasn't mastered thinking in advance when it comes to offense. on defense, he seems clueless as to what the weakness is on our teams defense after the first second option in the opposing teams offense has been denied and what the the strategic weakness was forced in our defense in order to stop the second option..and more importantly..what he is suppose to do to help us recover. This is absolute failure on the coaching staff and in particular Flip..and indirectly EG adn Leonsis.
We have the same problems with Yi..language..same problem with Thornton...same problem with all the young players.
What really troubling is the fact that our young players and serious problems understanding what our defense sacrifices strategically to stop the second and third options of the opposing teams offense...and haven't been trained far enough to figure out the holes that are created..and more importantly the most efficient way to regain a strategic advantage in a lightning quick fashion.
Flip would literally have to flash video of snap shots and mcgee and company should be able to in a lightening (lightning--(bright light bulb) quick fashion identify the weakness in a defensive formation and how they should respond and where they should be at on the court once the ball is rotated or passed 4 times to the 4th option.
There should be a classroom all day long. These arent' things that can easily be taught by rehearsal..you need snap shots.