Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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- Sixth Man
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Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Beleive or not, the Lakers have real and imagined financial constraints. The Buss Family is one of the less affluent owners in the NBA and the LT truly hurts, especially if LAL does not go deep in the playoffs. During the 3-year championship run, the teams profits only arose out of the playoff sales. With this in mind, LAL will trade for non-stars only if they can save some dollars.
Outside of the Howard/Williams discussion, there has been some effort for Sessions. Most think LA will trade a pick and use the TPE to absorb Sessions 2-year contract. I would suggest that Session is too rick for LA and if Sessions is to be moved, Clevleand will have to take back enough salary to equal the traditional $3.0mm purchase price for picks. Cle did this with LAC at a much higher price and were amply rewarded.
Therefore, if Sessions is moving to LAL, Cleveland will get the Dallas or LAL #1, a NJN 2d and have to take Walton and Kapono. Walton is a 2-year contract, with more than a $1.0mm per year over the Sessions deal and Kapono, who is vet min. The total contract load is close to $3.0mm and Cleve gets the 1st and 2d for the trouble. The cap space lost this year is of no value to Cle and they are sufficiently rewarded for the loss of cap space next season with a 1st. LA not only gets a younger PG, but saves $2.8mm in LT this year, some salary in the remainder of this season, and $2.4mm in salary and LT next season. This is real dollars for LA and better than expected compensation for Sessions who is expensive in this market.
In sum, it is: LAL gives Walton, Kapono, NJN 2d and a 1st in 12; gets Sessions
Cle gives Sessions; gets 2 picks, Walton and Kapono
Outside of the Howard/Williams discussion, there has been some effort for Sessions. Most think LA will trade a pick and use the TPE to absorb Sessions 2-year contract. I would suggest that Session is too rick for LA and if Sessions is to be moved, Clevleand will have to take back enough salary to equal the traditional $3.0mm purchase price for picks. Cle did this with LAC at a much higher price and were amply rewarded.
Therefore, if Sessions is moving to LAL, Cleveland will get the Dallas or LAL #1, a NJN 2d and have to take Walton and Kapono. Walton is a 2-year contract, with more than a $1.0mm per year over the Sessions deal and Kapono, who is vet min. The total contract load is close to $3.0mm and Cleve gets the 1st and 2d for the trouble. The cap space lost this year is of no value to Cle and they are sufficiently rewarded for the loss of cap space next season with a 1st. LA not only gets a younger PG, but saves $2.8mm in LT this year, some salary in the remainder of this season, and $2.4mm in salary and LT next season. This is real dollars for LA and better than expected compensation for Sessions who is expensive in this market.
In sum, it is: LAL gives Walton, Kapono, NJN 2d and a 1st in 12; gets Sessions
Cle gives Sessions; gets 2 picks, Walton and Kapono
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
- Baddy Chuck
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Justify it any way you want, that's bad for Cleveland.
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Yeah, if you expect the Cavs to take on Walton, you'd probably have to add Glock in and/or give them both firsts along with the 2nd.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
If a 1st is worth $3.0mm in cash, why does LA have to pay twice that much when it is taking a bad contract off from Cleveland? In today's market, no one would give Sessions $4.5mm per year. This contract is another example of Kahn overpaying the market and then dumping it on Cleveland. Sessions gets minimum PT in Cleveland and they are moving him so that it does not hurt Irving. Cleveland is amply paid because it gets a 1st and 2d for less than the traditional $4.5mm price that teams have paid for 1st ($3mm) and 2d ($!.5mm) for a player that it not their future. No other team will cough up a 1st for Sessions or spend the $4.5mm in cap space for him. Now some want LA to spend 2 1sts for a player no one else wants? Where is the logic in that reasoning?
Cleveland's plan is to get as many 1sts as quickly as possible on the team. They paid huge dollars for Irving (the Davis contract) and now this deal gives them a 1st pick on a monetary discount when there is no market for the player. It is a big win for Cleve at a minimal dollar cost.
Cleveland's plan is to get as many 1sts as quickly as possible on the team. They paid huge dollars for Irving (the Davis contract) and now this deal gives them a 1st pick on a monetary discount when there is no market for the player. It is a big win for Cleve at a minimal dollar cost.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
You're good man. I'm about to enter college as an Economics major and I'm really impressed
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
I got my degree in capology many moons ago.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
I like discussions like this better when they hit the TnT boards...
If you consider last year's Vujacic deal, this involved the same philosophy. In assessing which trades to do, be it for team or money, one must understand the dynamics of the deal in basketball, money or both.
Sasha Vujacic was traded to the NJ Nets last season in an effort to shave off 5.25M in salary. And because LA was in the luxury tax area (old CBA) they were compelled to pay dollar-for-dollar for w/e Vujacic's salary was. By the time he was traded (sometime January) the Lakers would have paid about 2/5 of his salary, therefore NJ is then scheduled to pay him the remainder, which was estimated to be $3M. For the hassles, NJ is getting paid the draft pick (that turned out to be Marshon Brooks) which they essentially bought for 3M (the cost of Vujacic's remaining salary)...
For LA, the deal was about saving 3M in salaries for 2011 but 5.4M in tax penalties. For a player they deemed was expendable, 3M offsets for the pick, but the 5.4M savings in future expenses was alleviated.
Prior to God stepping into the picture (Stern) on the cp3 deal, the Lakers parted with Odom AND Gasol to acquire CP3. Even though Gasol was re-routed to Houston for w/e pieces coming back is irrelevant, the relevance is in the outgoing salaries the Lakers had to shed and of course how much CP3 costs is another thing. And fastforward to several hours when the deal was nixed, the Lakers decided to trade Odom to the Mavericks for the newly-created Tyson Chandler TPE.
In hindsight, the basketball heads refer only to the talent given up by LA in the deal (Odom and Gasol's player values) but sleighted a bit in talking about the money aspect of the deal, perhaps because RealGMers know about it better than they do. But in effect, the Lakers were giving up 27M in the deal and taking back only 16M thereby creating an 11M savings in actual payroll (more on that later) and 22M when you compound it with the tax.
Had the deal went through, the Lakers still needed to sign players, which means their ability to use the MLE would still not be there, but the ability to sign the players they have done so now, remains the same.
Josh McRoberts for the mini MLE.
Troy Murphy and Jason Kapono for the MIN.
Morris and Goudelock on pre-set rookie 2nd rounder contracts.
All in all, its about making sense. And I see the board being more basketball-oriented in assessing stuff like this (perhaps because most are not cappologists) and just view Walton as a player.
In Rugby's case in point, Walton is a contract being traded, not expected to play.
If you consider last year's Vujacic deal, this involved the same philosophy. In assessing which trades to do, be it for team or money, one must understand the dynamics of the deal in basketball, money or both.
Sasha Vujacic was traded to the NJ Nets last season in an effort to shave off 5.25M in salary. And because LA was in the luxury tax area (old CBA) they were compelled to pay dollar-for-dollar for w/e Vujacic's salary was. By the time he was traded (sometime January) the Lakers would have paid about 2/5 of his salary, therefore NJ is then scheduled to pay him the remainder, which was estimated to be $3M. For the hassles, NJ is getting paid the draft pick (that turned out to be Marshon Brooks) which they essentially bought for 3M (the cost of Vujacic's remaining salary)...
For LA, the deal was about saving 3M in salaries for 2011 but 5.4M in tax penalties. For a player they deemed was expendable, 3M offsets for the pick, but the 5.4M savings in future expenses was alleviated.
Prior to God stepping into the picture (Stern) on the cp3 deal, the Lakers parted with Odom AND Gasol to acquire CP3. Even though Gasol was re-routed to Houston for w/e pieces coming back is irrelevant, the relevance is in the outgoing salaries the Lakers had to shed and of course how much CP3 costs is another thing. And fastforward to several hours when the deal was nixed, the Lakers decided to trade Odom to the Mavericks for the newly-created Tyson Chandler TPE.
In hindsight, the basketball heads refer only to the talent given up by LA in the deal (Odom and Gasol's player values) but sleighted a bit in talking about the money aspect of the deal, perhaps because RealGMers know about it better than they do. But in effect, the Lakers were giving up 27M in the deal and taking back only 16M thereby creating an 11M savings in actual payroll (more on that later) and 22M when you compound it with the tax.
Had the deal went through, the Lakers still needed to sign players, which means their ability to use the MLE would still not be there, but the ability to sign the players they have done so now, remains the same.
Josh McRoberts for the mini MLE.
Troy Murphy and Jason Kapono for the MIN.
Morris and Goudelock on pre-set rookie 2nd rounder contracts.
All in all, its about making sense. And I see the board being more basketball-oriented in assessing stuff like this (perhaps because most are not cappologists) and just view Walton as a player.
In Rugby's case in point, Walton is a contract being traded, not expected to play.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
LA is in a real quandry because it has so much cap space tied up in 3 players. Fisher and Metta are not tradeable; Blakes plays and thus Walton is the only contract that can be traded for either a slighter bigger or smaller deal to help improve the leagues worst 4-12 roster. Walton can be used for a Sessions like in this deal or traded for a Marvin Williams to give another team salary and LT relief. The trick for LA is to turn Bynum into Howard and not absorb too much salary. Gasol cannot Lopez and Gasol going to Orlando. It is a huge trade, but NJ gets 2 of its five assets back for Williams and an upgard over Lopez. orlando gets Lopez and Gasol, moves Hedo and Ryan Anderson and LA gets Williams, Howard, Anderson and Hedo, but takes on another $11mm in salary with teh corresponding LT costs. No way its happends because NJ and Orl are not brave enough to make such a trade. Tehy saw how Chris Wallace got beat up, but he rebuilt his team with that Gasol trade.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
How about this? LA improves without using TPE
Lakers out: Gasol, DAL 2012 1st rd pick, CHI 2012 2nd rd pick
Lakers in: L. William, Garcia, Blatche, Illyasova
Why for Lakers? Staring PG? check, Front court depth? Arguably improved with Blatche and Illyasova.
Kings out: T. Evans, Garcia, J.J. Hickson
Kings in: Iguodala
Why for Kings? They get a veteran all star SF who can lead the team. It helps he is a knock-down defender too.
76ers out: Iguodala, Nocioni, L. Williams
76ers in: Gasol, Evans
Why for 76ers? Gasol/Hawes/Brand makes it one of the best front court in the East. Also get T. Evans which is as all-round as Iguodala and still super young.
Bucks out: Illyasova
Bucks in: J.J. Hickson + 2012 Dal 1st round pick
Why for Bucks? Buck in rebuild mode, get a 1st round pick for Illyasova
Wiz out: Blatche
Wiz in: Nocioni + 2012 Chi 2nd round pick
Why for Wiz? Same as buck. Try to rebuild. Get rid of Blatche long contract.
Lakers out: Gasol, DAL 2012 1st rd pick, CHI 2012 2nd rd pick
Lakers in: L. William, Garcia, Blatche, Illyasova
Why for Lakers? Staring PG? check, Front court depth? Arguably improved with Blatche and Illyasova.
Kings out: T. Evans, Garcia, J.J. Hickson
Kings in: Iguodala
Why for Kings? They get a veteran all star SF who can lead the team. It helps he is a knock-down defender too.
76ers out: Iguodala, Nocioni, L. Williams
76ers in: Gasol, Evans
Why for 76ers? Gasol/Hawes/Brand makes it one of the best front court in the East. Also get T. Evans which is as all-round as Iguodala and still super young.
Bucks out: Illyasova
Bucks in: J.J. Hickson + 2012 Dal 1st round pick
Why for Bucks? Buck in rebuild mode, get a 1st round pick for Illyasova
Wiz out: Blatche
Wiz in: Nocioni + 2012 Chi 2nd round pick
Why for Wiz? Same as buck. Try to rebuild. Get rid of Blatche long contract.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Call me crazy, but I don't think Cleveland really cares about LAL's cap problems. I'm pretty sure they will not agree to take back Walton who, economically speaking, isn't worth his weight in poop.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
you are not crazy leto.
let us not forget that CLE relies on revenue sharing and lux tax that the lakers pay and the lakers lowering their salary would be very anti-CLE, that is what dan gilbert clearly stated.
let us not forget that CLE relies on revenue sharing and lux tax that the lakers pay and the lakers lowering their salary would be very anti-CLE, that is what dan gilbert clearly stated.
"We must try not to sink beneath our anguish, Harry, but battle on." - Dumbledore
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Rugby, why do you feel that the Cavs owe the Lakers anything?
Heat3Peat wrote:See this is why it's nice being a LeBron fan, no super hard allegiance to a team so there is no up and down emotions with me during a time like this.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
- [RCG]
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
No reason for Cleveland to help the Lakers out. Sessions isn't horribly overpaid. Even if he is somewhat Irving is underpaid so it evens out. There is no reason to pay Walton to sit on the bench when they can pay Sessions to pay.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
A deal (s) that works and I think helps all three teams is
Walton and The LA Laker's and Dallas' 1st rounders in 2012 to Portland
Jammer Nelson and Luke Babbitt to LA Lakers
Raymond Felton to Orlando.
And a separate deal LA send TPE to Portland for Chris Johnson and Kurt Thomas
Walton and The LA Laker's and Dallas' 1st rounders in 2012 to Portland
Jammer Nelson and Luke Babbitt to LA Lakers
Raymond Felton to Orlando.
And a separate deal LA send TPE to Portland for Chris Johnson and Kurt Thomas
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
- spearsy23
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Your entire argument is centered around Sessions being not just a bad contract, but a horrible one. Since Sessions has positive value, the Cavs don't need to send anything to the Lakers. The Cavs don't need to dump contracts, they aren't in that kind of financial bind. The Lakers do need to dump contracts so if they want to get rid of somebody I think the best they could do is try to give up one/both their picks to try to get Toronto or somebody else with cap space to absorb one of their horrible players (i.e. Walton). Actually I think that would be amazing for Toronto, give up a future 2nd round pick or a minimum guy to take on Walton and a draft pick. Of course it'd have to be done once the Dwight thing has completely fallen through. But then Tor gets what becomes an expiring (YAY for very few instances of negative value) next year, plus the extra pick this year. Add in that Tor really has nothing to use their cap space on because nobody is going to go play for them until they've rebuilt and it becomes a great move. So if LA is actually desperate to save some money (10 million in this scenario) they are going to have to give up quite a bit.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
I think, for what its all worth, that you guys missed the point.
Rugby was saying, that IF there was to be a deal for Sessions, that it WOULD BE that which includes Walton and Kapono and the 1st + 2nd... otherwise it wouldn't happen simply coz LA will not take on that salary without sending some forward.
^^ The proposal is another thing, the premise being laid out as that is the point.
Rugby was saying, that IF there was to be a deal for Sessions, that it WOULD BE that which includes Walton and Kapono and the 1st + 2nd... otherwise it wouldn't happen simply coz LA will not take on that salary without sending some forward.
^^ The proposal is another thing, the premise being laid out as that is the point.
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- spearsy23
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
warren weel im wrote:I think, for what its all worth, that you guys missed the point.
Rugby was saying, that IF there was to be a deal for Sessions, that it WOULD BE that which includes Walton and Kapono and the 1st + 2nd... otherwise it wouldn't happen simply coz LA will not take on that salary without sending some forward.
^^ The proposal is another thing, the premise being laid out as that is the point.
Well maybe that would be what the Lakers want it to be, but the Cavs would just say something disparaging about Buss' mother and hang up the phone.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
^ As the case may be, then the Lakers are standing pat.
Either do something that makes you better, or don't do anything. After all, you are not forced to if all available deals are only out to get you.
Either do something that makes you better, or don't do anything. After all, you are not forced to if all available deals are only out to get you.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
Poignant words, but they apply more to the Lakers than the Cavs. Trading Sessions doesn't really make the Cavs better, as is the LAL aren't real contenders and have a lot of money tied up for a few years, so they are dangerously close to being stuck in 'in between' land unless they find a move to make.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
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Re: Improving and Saving $$ with LAL
spearsy23 wrote:Poignant words, but they apply more to the Lakers than the Cavs. Trading Sessions doesn't really make the Cavs better, as is the LAL aren't real contenders and have a lot of money tied up for a few years, so they are dangerously close to being stuck in 'in between' land unless they find a move to make.
Yeah, I'm starting to think it is the ideal time to do the unthinkable and (with his permission) trade Kobe.
Does a 1st for sessions do that much, or just ballance a team that is still a notch too short, with subpar production at more then one starting postion and a bench that is horrific on a good day? Does Gasol bring back enough to win a ring, or even make a finals, by trading him for 2-3 productive players to fill the talent gaps elsewhere? Does it make sense to pay 10 million to take on the Beasley's of the world, even without sending out a first?
Maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic about there chances, but being a 6th seed is pretty useless, blow it up and enjoy that you already have that new tv deal.
They will probably wait a year while depreciating those assets, why panic, but some sort of shakeup wouldn't hurt imo. Do the unthinkable 14 for 7. But make a move versus looking capped as a 2nd round team.
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