The 25th Man- 5th bench player or 8th relief pitcher

[baulderdash77]

Let's just say that our top 4 bench players & top 7 relievers are set.

In my mind they are
EE, Vizquel, Mathis, Davis

BP:
Santos, Cordero, Oliver, Janssen, Fraser, Perez, Villaneuva

From time to time toy with the idea of a shorter bench and a longer bullpen but normally carry a 5th bench option and 7 relievers. Last year we did this for several weeks.

In our case the bubble guys are probably Mike McCoy as a utility guy and a guy like Evan Crawford (as a 3rd LHR option)

Which would you prefer?

[hyper316]

why would you have EE on the bench? who's the DH?

[baulderdash77]

The DH is part of the bench. You can rotate them every day if you want.

[hyper316]

ahh i guess that make sense, NL teams wouldn't have a DH spot

i think we can use an extra OF. i see us using Rajai Davis a lot for pinch running proposes. his bat and glove are not that great

[flatjacket1]

i think we can use an extra OF. i see us using Rajai Davis a lot for pinch running proposes. his bat and glove are not that great

You bring up an excellent point. Rajai might get on base once a game if you start him, or once a game if you pinch run him so I think using him more as a pinch runner might be really beneficial for the club.

I still voted bullpen because I think an extra arm makes the whole bullpen better (less stress on 8 rather than 7.)

[Parataxis]

Let's just say that our top 4 bench players & top 7 relievers are set.

In my mind they are
EE, Vizquel, Mathis, Davis

...

In our case the bubble guys are probably Mike McCoy as a utility guy and a guy like Evan Crawford (as a 3rd LHR option)

Does this mean you're putting Thames down to the minors?

[vaff87]

Ben Francisco?

[kavan]

Well I say it goes to a Bench Player, we need the guys who can hit or run for us play clutch defense or steal us a base.

I think our pitching out the pen looks okay, we have to give these work horses a chance to pitch it out and if our starters can pitch into the 6th-7th innings we should be alright. Get a long relief guy in for those days are young guys get beat up bad and we should be good.

I really want to see the Jays playing some small ball as well the hitting and running, stealing bases and play for the big inning.

Then again we can always change it, I partially want the extra bench spot so neither Snider or Thames have to be sent down but it probably be better that they do so they get more game time.

[Al_Oliver]

Let's just say that our top 4 bench players & top 7 relievers are set.

In my mind they are
EE, Vizquel, Mathis, Davis

BP:
Santos, Cordero, Oliver, Janssen, Fraser, Perez, Villaneuva

From time to time toy with the idea of a shorter bench and a longer bullpen but normally carry a 5th bench option and 7 relievers. Last year we did this for several weeks.

In our case the bubble guys are probably Mike McCoy as a utility guy and a guy like Evan Crawford (as a 3rd LHR option)

Which would you prefer?

Crawford easily... McCoy's time is done with this team (injury replacement only)

[Lateral Quicks]

The only way the Francisco trade makes any sense in my mind is if they plan to use Davis mostly in the pinch runner role. Even then, it's still a major stretch when you have so many other guys who could man the outfield in a pinch (Johnson, Encarnacion, Lawrie, Lind, etc.). To this day I don't get that trade at all; at least it came at negligible cost.

Edit: I take Crawford over Perez as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. Perez's minor league stats aren't that good, and after a good start his year really trailed off in a bad way. Yes, Perez has no more options, but I don't believe he's good enough to keep him just on that basis. You should take the best player, and that player is Crawford at the moment.

[Deron05]

Ben Francisco?

I know. He has good power and he plays OF. And as current bench is, we only have 1 OF.

[A-Mac78]

You take the 8th relief pitcher.

Every single time.

[satyr9]

You take the 8th relief pitcher.

Every single time.

Since every single coach and GM seems to disagree with you, I wouldn't be so confident. I'm not even saying it's not a good idea, but running an 8-man pen for long periods of time is very rare.

Personally, I think it's time for all GMs to own up that not all SPs are created equal and stop treating them as such. I had a whole grand strategy planned out for using 200IP starters, 100IP starters and 'pen and it needed 13 guys total (equivalent of an 8-man 'pen) once, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

I think most clubs are fine with seven spots as injuries and hiccoughs leave you more than enough spaces to use the 10-11 guys you're gonna need pretty much every season to cover the 450-500 IP of relief work a team will need.

[Homer Jay]

With both Francisco and Davis here, it's 5 bench players.

Bench:
EE
Francisco
Davis
Vizquel
Mathis

With McCoy again as first man up to cover injuries.

[A-Mac78]

You take the 8th relief pitcher.

Every single time.

Since every single coach and GM seems to disagree with you, I wouldn't be so confident. I'm not even saying it's not a good idea, but running an 8-man pen for long periods of time is very rare.

Personally, I think it's time for all GMs to own up that not all SPs are created equal and stop treating them as such. I had a whole grand strategy planned out for using 200IP starters, 100IP starters and 'pen and it needed 13 guys total (equivalent of an 8-man 'pen) once, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

I think most clubs are fine with seven spots as injuries and hiccoughs leave you more than enough spaces to use the 10-11 guys you're gonna need pretty much every season to cover the 450-500 IP of relief work a team will need.

A lefty specialist is much more important to a team than having a 5th outfielder on the bench. All AL teams should look at an 8 man pen if they can fill it adequately.

[Osiris]

Did we see how fat Cordero was? He's an injury lock at some point. I'd rather the 8th reliever.

[flatjacket1]

A lefty specialist is much more important to a team than having a 5th outfielder on the bench. All AL teams should look at an 8 man pen if they can fill it adequately.

That's a great opinion, do you have any numbers that prove an extra LOOGY > 5th outfielder? I'm fine with opinions but they shouldn't be stated as facts.

[A-Mac78]

A lefty specialist is much more important to a team than having a 5th outfielder on the bench. All AL teams should look at an 8 man pen if they can fill it adequately.

That's a great opinion, do you have any numbers that prove an extra LOOGY > 5th outfielder? I'm fine with opinions but they shouldn't be stated as facts.

Numbers? What numbers could a person possibly come up with to prove a 5th outfield is not as valuable as an 8th reliever? Just looking at it logically, if I was a manager I have no need for 5 healthy outfielders. I'll take the extra arm every time.

And I suppose if I wrote "The way I see it..." before my post you would have resisted posting anything. But yeah it is my opinion, this is a forum right?

[Homer Jay]

A lefty specialist is much more important to a team than having a 5th outfielder on the bench. All AL teams should look at an 8 man pen if they can fill it adequately.

That's a great opinion, do you have any numbers that prove an extra LOOGY > 5th outfielder? I'm fine with opinions but they shouldn't be stated as facts.

Numbers? What numbers could a person possibly come up with to prove a 5th outfield is not as valuable as an 8th reliever? Just looking at it logically, if I was a manager I have no need for 5 healthy outfielders. I'll take the extra arm every time.

And I suppose if I wrote "The way I see it..." before my post you would have resisted posting anything. But yeah it is my opinion, this is a forum right?

If you look at Davis as exclusively an OF then yes. But he's the pinchrunner. A damn good one too, and that's where his value is. He's going to pay off in late game situations, maybe more often, then an eighth arm would.

[flatjacket1]

And I suppose if I wrote "The way I see it..." before my post you would have resisted posting anything. But yeah it is my opinion, this is a forum right?

Exactly.