Jefferson/Millsap/Favors combo

DiscoLives4ever · Post #1 » by **DiscoLives4ever** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:47 pm

This combo is +61 in just under 100 minutes of gameplay this year. For comparison, the top sets of three in the league for +/- are in the 250s-270s but have well over 1000 minutes to get there. Obviously it's not a perfect stat and wouldn't necessarily extrapolate over that much time, but I would love to see it used more.

d-will8 · Post #2 » by **d-will8** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:24 pm

It's really a shame Ty didn't try the big lineup earlier in the season. It's been blatantly obvious the entire season that (a) Favors needed a lot more minutes than he was getting; (b) the Al/Millsap combo blows defensively and (c) our threes (other than Hayward) are not very good. The big lineup solves all three problems. It's not a perfect solution and it might get exposed at times if we keep using it, but it's certainly better than the alternatives and it allows us to play our five best players together. I'm loving it.

Post #3 » by **FJS** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:53 pm

We know we can use it at times, and we know it's not perfect.
But Favors has to get minutes, and with Kanter we free minutes for everyboy.
Kanter is a C, Al and Derrick can play C and PF and Paul can play PF and SF.
Just play with it.

HolyToledo · Post #4 » by **HolyToledo** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:06 pm

I have been asking for this lineup all year long. Your most talented player on your team has to play minutes thus anything that gets Favors on the court has to be done until either Millsap or Jefferson get traded this off season.

red4hf · Post #5 » by **red4hf** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:28 pm

If it works, go with it, until it doesn't...... That should be a philosophy for this team for now......

ColdBlue · Post #6 » by **ColdBlue** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:35 pm

I start this line in the playoffs... if we make it.

QuantumMacgyver · Post #7 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:12 pm

HolyToledo wrote:I have been asking for this lineup all year long. Your most talented player on your team has to play minutes thus anything that gets Favors on the court has to be done until either Millsap or Jefferson get traded this off season.

Millsap is our most talented player. Favors just has the most potential. BUt I agree with you anyhow.

Pai Gow · Post #8 » by **Pai Gow** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:38 pm

Whatever it takes to get Favors 30+ mins a night I don't care, hell, trot Millsap at the 2 and have Kanter, Favors and Al in there and see what the hell happens.

spoonhoops · Post #9 » by **spoonhoops** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:56 pm

HolyToledo wrote:I have been asking for this lineup all year long. Your most talented player on your team has to play minutes thus anything that gets Favors on the court has to be done until either Millsap or Jefferson get traded this off season.

He really has. Not a game day forum goes by where we don't hear about it once. I'm glad Corbin finally got the memo.

Jefff · Post #10 » by **Jefff** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:04 am

It could be very useful, but for limited minutes (max 10 per game): Millsap can't play so much the sf, and opponents will adjust if too used.

HolyToledo · Post #11 » by **HolyToledo** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:57 am

Jefff wrote:It could be very useful, but for limited minutes (max 10 per game): Millsap can't play so much the sf, and opponents will adjust if too used.

totally a misconception! Better outside shhoter Millsap or Carroll...I say Millsap... Can pass off of pentration better I say Millsap...Can defend SF better such as Durant ...I say Millsap...Runs the floor better ...A tie...Nothing Carroll does better than Millsap at SF. Carroll should play maybe even start but A large bulk of the min has to go to the big lineup.

Reckless · Post #12 » by **Reckless** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:39 am

Biggest knock on Millsap was taller dudes can just shoot over the top. Favors doesn't have that problem. Sap has enough skills to play the SF. I don't see why we don't use this lineup more often.

canucklife21 · Post #13 » by **canucklife21** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:11 pm

since we are on the topic of sap playing the three,As a non jazz follower could sap over the offseason focus on playing the three fulltime or is that to far off. a front court of sap, favors and kanter for the future looks outstanding

Deinonychus · Post #14 » by **Deinonychus** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:40 pm

@Canucklife21 - I'd love to see that happen, but I'm not sure it is possible. I think Millsap is great as a SF against certain matchups, but not all the time. Quicker threes will give him a really hard time.

Concept Coop · Post #15 » by **Concept Coop** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:28 pm

HolyToledo wrote:
Jefff wrote:It could be very useful, but for limited minutes (max 10 per game): Millsap can't play so much the sf, and opponents will adjust if too used.

totally a misconception! Better outside shhoter Millsap or Carroll...I say Millsap... Can pass off of pentration better I say Millsap...Can defend SF better such as Durant ...I say Millsap...Runs the floor better ...A tie...Nothing Carroll does better than Millsap at SF. Carroll should play maybe even start but A large bulk of the min has to go to the big lineup.

It can't work longterm. Milsap can't be a longterm SF.

Milsap gives up a great deal of speed, quickness, and ball-handling to the ideal role of SF. Now the advantages that he would then have over the SF, require room to work. That can be difficult with 2 other big men in the game. On top of that, it is redundant.

mct · Post #16 » by **mct** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:01 pm

Millsap can't be worse at defending quick SFs than he is at defending long PFs. Footspeed when defending the perimeter is overrated. A bigger guy can just back off a bit and still contest their shot. They can also recover better when they do get blown by.

Anyone can drive past anyone in this league. Perimeter defense is more about funneling the player to the help. With Favors on the court, that help D gets a lot better.

What's a lot harder is guarding someone far bigger than you. That's what other teams are forced to deal with when Millsap is at SF. Only downside on offense is the spacing gets a little cramped down low. One of the three has to back off a bit. Until it's time to get the offensive rebound, that is.

Jgolds · Post #17 » by **Jgolds** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:03 pm

i think this is a good exciting line up to watch. there are shooters on the floor there are explosive players there is realyl the whole pkg. i think the one thing that could improve it is if Sap could shoot the three with more confidence. the other 3s and 4s stand like 5 feet back just daring him to shoot. i say shoot it... he has shown he can do it in the past in a clutch situation. no lets see if he can mange one in a set game setting. i think that will be the ultimate streacher on the D. all of a sudden you have threee big men in. all can post and Sap can shoot the trey. talk about a D having to be spread all over the floor. DH and G-man and Sap all dropping threes while Fav and Al and Sap posting up. who are y going to guard and how? it baffle a man to man and cut up a zone.

Jefff · Post #18 » by **Jefff** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:48 pm

HolyToledo wrote:
Jefff wrote:It could be very useful, but for limited minutes (max 10 per game): Millsap can't play so much the sf, and opponents will adjust if too used.

totally a misconception! Better outside shhoter Millsap or Carroll...I say Millsap... Can pass off of pentration better I say Millsap...Can defend SF better such as Durant ...I say Millsap...Runs the floor better ...A tie...Nothing Carroll does better than Millsap at SF. Carroll should play maybe even start but A large bulk of the min has to go to the big lineup.

simply because i don't think Sap can play big mins at the 3 spot, without losing efficiency both on D and on O. Is Sap a better player than Carroll, even at the SF? yes. Is Sap sthreghts a bit wasted if he plays big mins at SF? yes.