Technical Question: Bynum and Double Teams?

nbaintel1 · Post #1 » by **nbaintel1** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 9:56 pm

I see a lot of misinformed fans - general and Lakers fans.

Some people are saying that Bynum doesn't get doubled as much because he plays with great players. I'm sorry but that's totally false.

First of all, Bynum gets doubled just as much as Kobe or even more. He does shoot a much higher FG% you know. Teams are not stupid. All teams use advanced stats.

Second, teams double the crap out of Bynum because we have no shooters. Don't tell me Kobe/Gasol/Peace/Sessions are great shooters. Kobe has never made a catch and shoot 3 pointer in his life. Gasol has an inconsistent mid-range game. His mid-range also doesn't extend as far as someone like KG's. I don't need to say anything about Peace and Sessions.

Third, yes, Bynum is terrible with double teams and that's partly due to his poor passing and poor spacing around him. Bynum has never played with a stretch 4.

With that said, Lakers fans, please stop spreading false information that Bynum doesn't get doubled as much because he plays with Kobe and Gasol.

I'm part of the group that believes Bynum can explode if he has more catch and shoot players around him and as #1 option.

seoulman · Post #2 » by **seoulman** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:09 pm

nbaintel1 wrote:I see a lot of misinformed fans - general and Lakers fans.

Some people are saying that Bynum doesn't get doubled as much because he plays with great players. I'm sorry but that's totally false.

First of all, Bynum gets doubled just as much as Kobe or even more. He does shoot a much higher FG% you know. Teams are not stupid. All teams use advanced stats.

Second, teams double the crap out of Bynum because we have no shooters. Don't tell me Kobe/Gasol/Peace/Sessions are great shooters. Kobe has never made a catch and shoot 3 pointer in his life. Gasol has an inconsistent mid-range game. His mid-range also doesn't extend as far as someone like KG's. I don't need to say anything about Peace and Sessions.

Third, yes, Bynum is terrible with double teams and that's partly due to his poor passing and poor spacing around him. Bynum has never played with a stretch 4.

With that said, Lakers fans, please stop spreading false information that Bynum doesn't get doubled as much because he plays with Kobe and Gasol.

I'm part of the group that believes Bynum can explode if he has more catch and shoot players around him and as #1 option.

AGREE:
Andrew Bynum gets doubled a ton! Whoever is saying that Andrew isn't being doubled may be watching some other game in a parallel universe. The Lakers don't have a lot of great shooters. Bynum's ability to pass out of double teams is poor due in part to spacing. Bynum hasn't had a great stretch 4 to play with.

DISAGREE:
Kobe has hit a ton of catch-and-shoot 3-pointers. No need to exaggerate to make a point. Bynum's inability to pass out of double teams is also in part due to his inability to read the defensive rotations quick enough. It's hard for me to see Bynum flourishing as a #1 option anywhere.

nbaintel1 · Post #3 » by **nbaintel1** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:15 pm

seoulman wrote:
nbaintel1 wrote:I see a lot of misinformed fans - general and Lakers fans.

Some people are saying that Bynum doesn't get doubled as much because he plays with great players. I'm sorry but that's totally false.

First of all, Bynum gets doubled just as much as Kobe or even more. He does shoot a much higher FG% you know. Teams are not stupid. All teams use advanced stats.

Second, teams double the crap out of Bynum because we have no shooters. Don't tell me Kobe/Gasol/Peace/Sessions are great shooters. Kobe has never made a catch and shoot 3 pointer in his life. Gasol has an inconsistent mid-range game. His mid-range also doesn't extend as far as someone like KG's. I don't need to say anything about Peace and Sessions.

Third, yes, Bynum is terrible with double teams and that's partly due to his poor passing and poor spacing around him. Bynum has never played with a stretch 4.

With that said, Lakers fans, please stop spreading false information that Bynum doesn't get doubled as much because he plays with Kobe and Gasol.

I'm part of the group that believes Bynum can explode if he has more catch and shoot players around him and as #1 option.

AGREE:
Andrew Bynum gets doubled a ton! Whoever is saying that Andrew isn't being doubled may be watching some other game in a parallel universe. The Lakers don't have a lot of great shooters. Bynum's ability to pass out of double teams is poor due in part to spacing. Bynum hasn't had a great stretch 4 to play with.

DISAGREE:
Kobe has hit a ton of catch-and-shoot 3-pointers. No need to exaggerate to make a point. Bynum's inability to pass out of double teams is also in part due to his inability to read the defensive rotations quick enough. It's hard for me to see Bynum flourishing as a #1 option anywhere.

I disagree that Kobe is a good catch and shoot 3 pointers. Even if he's open behind the line, he likes to take 1 or 2 dribbles before shooting. He's definitely not the Kyle Korver type. He's also inconsistent shooting catch and shoot 3 balls.

Bynum's passing out of the double is a problem but he will learn with experience and with better shooters. I'm not worried about his passing as much as his stamina as the #1 option. He can fix his passing.

madtrap347 · Post #4 » by **madtrap347** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:23 pm

nbaintel,

I am a realist when it comes to kobe's skillset... and one thing I am positive in is that kobe can hit open jumpers and 3 pters. I don't know what you are talking about and what games you are watching... he seldomly does this because no one can create shots for others on this team and the offense revolves around him, but when we need him to make an open 3 pter, he succeeds consistently especially on a catch and shoot.

nbaintel1 · Post #5 » by **nbaintel1** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 10:31 pm

madtrap347 wrote:nbaintel,

I am a realist when it comes to kobe's skillset... and one thing I am positive in is that kobe can hit open jumpers and 3 pters. I don't know what you are talking about and what games you are watching... he seldomly does this because no one can create shots for others on this team and the offense revolves around him, but when we need him to make an open 3 pter, he succeeds consistently especially on a catch and shoot.

I watch the same games as you do. I don't have access to Synergy stats but if anyone does, I'm almost certain that his catch-shoot 3pt % is terrible.

As Kobe gets older, he would be wise to develop a catch and shoot 3pt game like Paul Pierce.

DEEP3CL · Post #6 » by **DEEP3CL** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 11:22 pm

Dude the regular guys here know all too well that Drew gets doubled a lot. From what I remember here we don't talk about the double teams he faces, it's what he wasn't doing in those double teams weather it be making the quick pass out or attack the double quickly. Most of the complaints have been on those two matters, it was never about him getting doubled. If some fans are saying that then they don't know what they're watching.

Lakerholic44 · Post #7 » by **Lakerholic44** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 11:30 pm

Byum will become a better passer out of double teams with more experience. Last season was the first time he saw regular doubles. It did not help matters that the Lakers had putrid outside shooting, were still learning a new offense on the fly, had PG change during the season, and very poor spacing all-around. Kevin "for real good moves that never fail..." McHale even noted that Byum will improve as a passer out of the double team. And he's a noted Laker hater. I'm not worried in the least about Bynum becoming more adept at passing out of the double teams. I'm more worried if those damn knees of him are going to hold up.

nbaintel1 · Post #8 » by **nbaintel1** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 11:31 pm

DEEP3CL wrote:Dude the regular guys here know all too well that Drew gets doubled a lot. From what I remember here we don't talk about the double teams he faces, it's what he wasn't doing in those double teams weather it be making the quick pass out or attack the double quickly. Most of the complaints have been on those two matters, it was never about him getting doubled. If some fans are saying that then they don't know what they're watching.

I'm referring to this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1193224&start=60

Couple of general fans and Lakers fans saying Kobe and Pau prevent double teams on Bynum which is absolutely false.

Kobe and Pau does not help Bynum with double teams. They make it worse sometimes.

Bynum would get double teamed less playing with 4 scrubs who can't do anything but knock down 3s.

Emperor_Earth · Post #9 » by **Emperor_Earth** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 11:57 pm

Why are you bringing General Forum discussions to the Lakers forum? Makes no sense.

Comparing outsider knowledge of our guy is like comparing the average American's knowledge of Canada. I don't even know how many seats are in their "Congress". That doesn't mean that I don't know that they wouldn't know their own country/squad/whatever.

DEEP3CL · Post #10 » by **DEEP3CL** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 11:59 pm

Man look at the brain dead posters ( non Laker fans) that posted in that thread, you can tell they never watched Drew play. One of the main reasons he was doubled so much was because teams damn near gift wrapped the out side shot for us........and we still couldn't hit it. Trust me man a lot of guys here on these forums don't understand ball.

seoulman · Post #11 » by **seoulman** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 11:28 pm

nbaintel1 wrote:
madtrap347 wrote:nbaintel,

I am a realist when it comes to kobe's skillset... and one thing I am positive in is that kobe can hit open jumpers and 3 pters. I don't know what you are talking about and what games you are watching... he seldomly does this because no one can create shots for others on this team and the offense revolves around him, but when we need him to make an open 3 pter, he succeeds consistently especially on a catch and shoot.

I watch the same games as you do. I don't have access to Synergy stats but if anyone does, I'm almost certain that his catch-shoot 3pt % is terrible.

As Kobe gets older, he would be wise to develop a catch and shoot 3pt game like Paul Pierce.

This may not serve as conclusive evidence for you, but it's some good evidence that Kobe is not a terrible catch-and-shoot guy.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -great-duo

Anklebreaker702 · Post #12 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 11:43 pm

Goods points from everyone but know need to argue what Bynum would or wouldn't do as a #1 option because no one knows until he's put in that position. Had he never been injured I'm sure he'd be close to that though

nbaintel1 · Post #13 » by **nbaintel1** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 4:50 am

seoulman wrote:
nbaintel1 wrote:
madtrap347 wrote:nbaintel,

I am a realist when it comes to kobe's skillset... and one thing I am positive in is that kobe can hit open jumpers and 3 pters. I don't know what you are talking about and what games you are watching... he seldomly does this because no one can create shots for others on this team and the offense revolves around him, but when we need him to make an open 3 pter, he succeeds consistently especially on a catch and shoot.

I watch the same games as you do. I don't have access to Synergy stats but if anyone does, I'm almost certain that his catch-shoot 3pt % is terrible.

As Kobe gets older, he would be wise to develop a catch and shoot 3pt game like Paul Pierce.

This may not serve as conclusive evidence for you, but it's some good evidence that Kobe is not a terrible catch-and-shoot guy.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -great-duo

When Kobe was left open, he shot 51.3 percent, which ranked 11th of the 113 players with at least 75 unguarded catch-and-shoot jumpers last season. It was the highest such percentage of the nine Lakers players with at least 20 attempts last season.

Only 75 attempts. Hardly any volume. Doesn't say if they are 3 pointers or coming off the screen.

Kobe just doesn't like catch and shoot. He likes to take a dribble or 2 at least before shooting. Even if he catches a ball wide open, he'll make a dribble.

RocketPower23 · Post #14 » by **RocketPower23** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 5:11 am

You haven't proved that Kobe doesn't like/can't make catch and shoot 3's. Back up your assertions.

picc · Post #15 » by **picc** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 5:22 am

Yeah, Bynum gets doubled a lot.

You know why?

Half because he's a deadly scorer one-on-one. And half because teams know he can't handle them, and it will usually result in a turnover.

If he was capable of passing out of a double team, he probably wouldn't be doubled so much.

swag2011 · Post #16 » by **swag2011** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 6:55 am

I stopped reading when this dude said "Kobe has never made a catch and shoot 3 pointer in his life." Seriously? Get out, like forreal lol, you clearly don't know what you are talking about. As a non Laker fan, you must not watch the games.

Kobe is a great catch and shoot type player, he just doesn't do it due to lack of a great PG. You only focus on his difficult shots, but don't focus on where he catch and shoots.

nbaintel1 · Post #17 » by **nbaintel1** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:28 am

RocketPower23 wrote:You haven't proved that Kobe doesn't like/can't make catch and shoot 3's. Back up your assertions.

I love to but I don't have access to synergy stats. Do you? I can only use my eyes.

People need to stop being so defensive about Kobe. If Kobe was so great at this and that, he wouldn't have shot 43% FG and 30% on 3s. He hasn't shot the 3 ball this bad since 2001.

If Kobe shot the 3 ball at 38% like 02-03, I'd be like one of you calling myself crazy for saying such a thing.

But this isn't 2002. This is 2012. And Kobe just shot 30% on 3s.

Post #18 » by **dockingsched** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:43 pm

kobe catch and shoot was the greatest thing this past yr.

game thread after game thread we would discuss how effective kobe is when playing off the ball and simply doing catch and shoots. most of us were shocked when he missed on a catch and shoot.

Post #19 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:17 pm

I've said it elsewhere, but that curl cut around the elbow Gasol down screen was one of L.A.'s most dangerous plays last year.

Kobe is discovering Jordan Mode; MJ was always a vicious, savagely effective off-ball player. It makes it easier to avoid quick doubles, you get to attack the weakside defense, you get open looks for set jumpers... it's beautiful.

The Skyhook · Post #20 » by **The Skyhook** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:30 pm

Steve Nash is going to allow Kobe for more catch and shoot opportunities this year.

I really hope he buys into the concept now that Nash is on board.

And +1 on what DEEP said in his first post about the regulars that post here. The regulars on this board used to have discussions about Bynum passing out of doubles all the time last season. Even if you watched 50% of Laker games last season you would know how often Bynum was doubled. There are too many so called Laker posters on the GB that never post on the Lakers board and give Lakers fans a bad rep.