Need to rant about Rant.com and gather.com

AingesBurner · Post #1 » by **AingesBurner** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:27 am

Rant says that Boston could aquire Favors for Pierce and Miami could aquire Favors for Miller!! These trades are horrible and just tick me off!!! Seriously, two role playerss for a future superstar maybe Malone Clone.

awesomator · Post #2 » by **awesomator** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:20 pm

I'm afraid you suffer from the same disease that many Jazz fans and Jazz Management suffer from. It's called Over Valuing Your Players. There is no one on the Jazz roster I would not trade for Paul Pierce even at his advanced age. Same could have been said about James Harden, Jazz should have given OKC anything they wanted for him. You don't win in the NBA with a team full of role players, not matter how hard they do or do not play. ( Don't even get me started on Demarre Carroll -- playing hard is not an NBA skillset. )

Post #3 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:26 pm

Favors for both Pierce and Miller is a wholesale rip-off even if you don't value Favors that much.

awesomator · Post #4 » by **awesomator** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:55 pm

See, told you lots of Jazz fans suffer from it....

This is Favors career year. He will be a 10/10 guy for a long time who plays good post D. Role Player.

babyjax13 · Post #5 » by **babyjax13** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:59 pm

awesomator wrote:See, told you lots of Jazz fans suffer from it....

This is Favors career year. He will be a 10/10 guy for a long time who plays good post D. Role Player.

10/10? He already averages 9/6 in 21 minutes. As a third year player. He averages 15 and 10 per 36 without having a lot run for him. With Millsap and/or Jefferson gone and a larger role in the offense I don't think it's ridiculous to think that he'll average that in a season.

Post #6 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:00 pm

awesomator wrote:See, told you lots of Jazz fans suffer from it....

This is Favors career year. He will be a 10/10 guy for a long time who plays good post D. Role Player.

And you're overvaluing a 35-year old Paul Pierce, whose shooting percentages have gone down for three straight seasons. I wouldn't take Paul Pierce on the Jazz at his salary for next year, even if I didn't have to give up anything to get him, much less trade one of my best assets for him.

And here are some non-NBA leeks:

Post #7 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:52 pm

awesomator wrote:I'm afraid you suffer from the same disease that many Jazz fans and Jazz Management suffer from. It's called Over Valuing Your Players. There is no one on the Jazz roster I would not trade for Paul Pierce even at his advanced age. Same could have been said about James Harden, Jazz should have given OKC anything they wanted for him. You don't win in the NBA with a team full of role players, not matter how hard they do or do not play. ( Don't even get me started on Demarre Carroll -- playing hard is not an NBA skillset. )

houston is not winning an NBA championship anytime soon either.

awesomator · Post #8 » by **awesomator** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:47 pm

Yet Favors can't average more minutes that that. Why? It's because he is not any better than Al or Sap (which is saying something.) He is a role player. He will average a few more points and rebounds if he ever plays more but not many. Coaching staff isn't playing him more for a reason. If he could average 25-10 he would be playing 35 instead of watching Al.

Houston may not win a Championship soon, but they will win one before the Jazz do. They understand player value and are not emotional in decision making (Deron) and don't overvalue their talent or 'potential' (Kevin Martin, two first round picks -- likely role-players). Superstars are hard to get. It's ALWAYS the right move to trade for them. Even 35 year old ones. Because you CANNOT win titles without them and it's easier to trade for them than to sign them or develop them.

Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb, two first-round picks and a second-round pick for Harden. That is a bargain trade for Houston because now they have their all-star to build around.

Where is ours? Favors? Seriously? How many years until he makes all-star game? Will he ever? Doubtful.

Hayward? Role player. Burks? Bench Warmer. Kanter? The one guys who has a chance still, totally willing to give it up for three years of Paul Pierce or any other All-Star caliber player.

Post #9 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:59 pm

You're free to build your team around the twilight of Paul Pierce's career; I refuse to give up assets for such diminishing returns.

Want to make a bet on who generates more total win shares over the next three seasons, Favors or Pierce?

Dry Fly · Post #10 » by **Dry Fly** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:05 am

awesomator wrote:See, told you lots of Jazz fans suffer from it....

This is Favors career year. He will be a 10/10 guy for a long time who plays good post D. Role Player.

Unlikely, but if true I still would take Favors over Pierce or Miller.

Neon Black · Post #11 » by **Neon Black** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:00 am

Dry Fly wrote:
awesomator wrote:See, told you lots of Jazz fans suffer from it....

This is Favors career year. He will be a 10/10 guy for a long time who plays good post D. Role Player.

Unlikely, but if true I still would take Favors over Pierce or Miller.

Exactly. Even if Favors never becomes more of an offensive threat than Tyson Chandler, he will still be extremely valuable.

awesomator · Post #12 » by **awesomator** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:43 am

That's actually a very good comparison.

http://bkref.com/tiny/jp1mq

If Tyson Chandler is the best player on your team, how good will your team be? Is it worth hanging on to an asset with the hope he eventually becomes Tyson Chandler if you could trade him for an All-Star scoring threat now? That's insanity. Look, I love Favors. But the emotion needs to be taken out of player evaluation. Over valuing a player is just as bad as under valuing him! Jazz are guilty of this all the time. There is no one on our roster I would not have trade right now if we could get a star player back.

Would I love building around an aging Paul Pierce, not really, but we would be a much better team. If we could keep him around for 3 years we might find our next All-Star caliber player to replace him and build around that player going forward... Or maybe we will get lucky, draft a promising rookie PG who turns into an All-Star we can build around for the next 10 years... Then trade him away for a bunch or promising young players and draft picks again. That plan is working out really nicely.

Finally, you know the worst part right? This summer when we have some cash to spend on a horrible free agent market we are going to end up resigning Milsap and Jefferson... And TyCo is going to continue to play them over Favors and Kanter, as he should, because they are better players.

Litany · Post #13 » by **Litany** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:40 pm

awesomator wrote:That's actually a very good comparison.

http://bkref.com/tiny/jp1mq

If Tyson Chandler is the best player on your team, how good will your team be? Is it worth hanging on to an asset with the hope he eventually becomes Tyson Chandler if you could trade him for an All-Star scoring threat now? That's insanity. Look, I love Favors. But the emotion needs to be taken out of player evaluation. Over valuing a player is just as bad as under valuing him! Jazz are guilty of this all the time. There is no one on our roster I would not have trade right now if we could get a star player back.

Would I love building around an aging Paul Pierce, not really, but we would be a much better team. If we could keep him around for 3 years we might find our next All-Star caliber player to replace him and build around that player going forward... Or maybe we will get lucky, draft a promising rookie PG who turns into an All-Star we can build around for the next 10 years... Then trade him away for a bunch or promising young players and draft picks again. That plan is working out really nicely.

Finally, you know the worst part right? This summer when we have some cash to spend on a horrible free agent market we are going to end up resigning Milsap and Jefferson... And TyCo is going to continue to play them over Favors and Kanter, as he should, because they are better players.

We wouldn't be a much better team with Pierce. He's playing with a future HOFer who is having a good year and a top 5 point guard and that team was at or below .500 most of the year in the EAST.

You don't "build" around a 36 year old player.

Favors has much more value than you realize and you can marginalize him as much as you want but this topic is a complete waste.

Now if we are talking about the Harden trade, that is a different story. I think we should have done whatever it took to get him. Pierce is not a star player anymore. Harden is. I would trade for Harden, never for Pierce.