Article on Big Al's future and the Jazz

Jefff · Post #1 » by **Jefff** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 6:15 pm

"I know both sides, me and Utah, are going to do what’s best,” Jefferson said. “Utah is going to do what’s best for the team and I’m going to do what’s best for my family.”

full article on

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22651 ... ge-Showing

MKG35 · Post #2 » by **MKG35** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 8:21 pm

I wonder if the Jazz have missed out. Favors is ready to take over the PF spot, Kanter I don't know. But I wouldn't resign Jefferson or Millsap.

If they traded at least 1 away they would have gotten some nice players (PG) and picks in return. If they had traded both away they could have gotten a really really really good deal.

Can they still do a sign and trade of some sort this summer?

Post #3 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 8:27 pm

MKG35 wrote:I wonder if the Jazz have missed out. Favors is ready to take over the PF spot, Kanter I don't know. But I wouldn't resign Jefferson or Millsap.

If they traded at least 1 away they would have gotten some nice players (PG) and picks in return. If they had traded both away they could have gotten a really really really good deal.

Source? Please provide details on the "really really really good deal" the Jazz passed up.

hoops4life · Post #4 » by **hoops4life** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 9:21 pm

MKG35 wrote:If they traded at least 1 away they would have gotten some nice players (PG) and picks in return. If they had traded both away they could have gotten a really really really good deal.

Sorry to pick on you dude, especially since you are a ball boy and we should be encouraging people to join RealGM and contribute... you are the straw that broke the camel's back.

This kind of statement pisses me off. I see if from quite a few people too especially non-Jazz fans, not just you. There is nothing out there that even remotely hints at what kind of deal the Jazz were being offered. I know that there is a good number of people that don't like Greg Miller (even though I highly doubt he was part of any trade talks whatsoever), KOC, and Dennis Lindsey (even though he is still new). These guys aren't going to turn something down that is the Jazz's best interest. If there was a killer deal or even a good deal out there, I have completely faith that they would've accepted it. They don't want to bring back a mediocre player (Ridnour), a young good talent (Bledsoe), or picks, if it was going to greatly hamper their cap space and chances at the play offs this year. All the rumors I read were crap. There was nothing out there they considered a deal. There was especially nothing out there that was remotely considered a "really really really good deal."

You are better than that. Don't bring that weak crap in here.

RyanStorm · Post #5 » by **RyanStorm** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 10:32 pm

Is it just me or did Corbin intentinoally kill Favors big night???

I mean what would you do if your bench C PF/C comes out and actually starts at C, and puts up bigger numbers than your starter and only had 30 minutes, not only that but your bench C the game before came out and also had a crazy better game. If he would have bee given 44 minutes, he would have smoldered any Big Al's Jazz records, and would have surpassed what Kanter did.

Everyone knows Hayward and Favors and Kanter and Burks are all ready for Starters, but the main debate is whether they have the experience to run the team, which in all due honesty I think they have proven themselves enough.

Actually they have proved themselves more capable at running this team, then the starters.

My theory, the best teams have young guys at starters and vets at bench. Not the other way around.

countrybama24 · Post #6 » by **countrybama24** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 10:44 pm

hoops4life wrote:These guys aren't going to turn something down that is the Jazz's best interest. If there was a killer deal or even a good deal out there, I have completely faith that they would've accepted it. They don't want to bring back a mediocre player (Ridnour), a young good talent (Bledsoe), or picks, if it was going to greatly hamper their cap space and chances at the play offs this year. All the rumors I read were crap. There was nothing out there they considered a deal. There was especially nothing out there that was remotely considered a "really really really good deal."

I guess I'll wait until the off season to see what we can or can't get from a sign and trade, but my hunch is that we're gonna lose Millsap or Al for nothing and the other we'll get a trade exception and a bad pick. I do generally agree a lot of people overreacted to the non-trade of these guys, but I don't think there isn't a legitimate argument against keeping them. I think most people's criticism is based on the refusal to take on any salary. There is no way we're gonna sign a max player, and the core four will all be on their rookie contracts still all next year. We could have easily taken on a bad contract that extends through 2014 and gotten a very good young player without really handicapping our cap space much at all. You see these deals all the time:

-Taking on Baron Davis netted the Cavs the number 1 overall pick which got them Kyrie Irving
-Trading the expiring contract of Wallace got the Blazers the pick that turned into Lillard
-The Rockets just got Thomas Robinson for saving the Kings some money

I don't think it's a disaster, and my criticism isn't really ever about just one thing the front office did or didn't do. It's just a general trend of not taking any risks, not pursuing creative trades, and generally being extremely conservative. I hope we can get something good, or get Al to resign (I assume Millsap is outta here). Our team is going to be really good regardless, I just want to see that last piece added that can push us from top-4 seed to legitimate contender.

My hunch is that we're going to try and save as much money as possible these next few years to make the cost of keeping the core four more acceptable to the owners throughout their primes.

slcjosh · Post #7 » by **slcjosh** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 11:01 pm

StocktonShorts wrote:
MKG35 wrote:I wonder if the Jazz have missed out. Favors is ready to take over the PF spot, Kanter I don't know. But I wouldn't resign Jefferson or Millsap.

If they traded at least 1 away they would have gotten some nice players (PG) and picks in return. If they had traded both away they could have gotten a really really really good deal.

Source? Please provide details on the "really really really good deal" the Jazz passed up.

Agreed, if there was a deal to be had, jazz brass has come out and said it would have pulled the trigger. Dennis lynsdey and KOC have both been interviewed since the deadline, and both said that other teams made some offers that were made were border line insulting, the rest, didnt make the team better.

And lets address the ignorant comment of "nice players" referring to a pg. WHO? who could the jazz have traded for? WHO was willing to give up their all world player for paul or al? guarantee that okc, boston, chicago, san antonio, LAC, Portland, Washington, and cleveland probably werent willing to give up point guards for either al or paul, even if we threw in other pieces.

The other aspect that is continually ignored is that the jazz said from day 1 they would prefer to have the cap space next season then to take on long term deals just for the sake of making a deal. The entire trade deadline broke down to only rudy gay and jj reddick getting moved. Not one single all star was moved, thats all you need to know about the trade options this year.

There was no decent deal that made the team better.

TheStig15 · Post #8 » by **TheStig15** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 11:02 pm

countrybama24 wrote:
hoops4life wrote:These guys aren't going to turn something down that is the Jazz's best interest. If there was a killer deal or even a good deal out there, I have completely faith that they would've accepted it. They don't want to bring back a mediocre player (Ridnour), a young good talent (Bledsoe), or picks, if it was going to greatly hamper their cap space and chances at the play offs this year. All the rumors I read were crap. There was nothing out there they considered a deal. There was especially nothing out there that was remotely considered a "really really really good deal."

I guess I'll wait until the off season to see what we can or can't get from a sign and trade, but my hunch is that we're gonna lose Millsap or Al for nothing and the other we'll get a trade exception and a bad pick. I do generally agree a lot of people overreacted to the non-trade of these guys, but I don't think there isn't a legitimate argument against keeping them. I think most people's criticism is based on the refusal to take on any salary. There is no way we're gonna sign a max player, and the core four will all be on their rookie contracts still all next year. We could have easily taken on a bad contract that extends through 2014 and gotten a very good young player without really handicapping our cap space much at all. You see these deals all the time:

-Taking on Baron Davis netted the Cavs the number 1 overall pick which got them Kyrie Irving
-Trading the expiring contract of Wallace got the Blazers the pick that turned into Lillard
-The Rockets just got Thomas Robinson for saving the Kings some money

I don't think it's a disaster, and my criticism isn't really ever about just one thing the front office did or didn't do. It's just a general trend of not taking any risks, not pursuing creative trades, and generally being extremely conservative. I hope we can get something good, or get Al to resign (I assume Millsap is outta here). Our team is going to be really good regardless, I just want to see that last piece added that can push us from top-4 seed to legitimate contender.

My hunch is that we're going to try and save as much money as possible these next few years to make the cost of keeping the core four more acceptable to the owners throughout their primes.

+1

RyanStorm · Post #9 » by **RyanStorm** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 11:14 pm

So what are Jazz options with AL and Paul this offseason?? Can someone do a list like 1-5 of possible outcomes? Cause I don't know the new rules, I thought we were just fine keeping them, cause we could do draft day trading.

This includes all our FA's.

Am I the only one who thinks signing them to a multi year deal as the best option?? Cause they are wanted players, if we sign them to a 4 year deal, and next year trade them for an early pick cause they say next year will have nice top 10 talent....That way we keep them a little longer, but get rid of them before we need to sign new contracts for our young guys. I assume this is one of the options.

Although what are the chances of there being a FA worth letting them walk? *Actual FA's that we can get.

slcjosh · Post #10 » by **slcjosh** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 11:31 pm

im willing to be we sign and trade paul, let al walk. i dont know what the odds are, but I know Locke is of the impression that the jazz have a real shot to sign and trade paul to LA for Pau Gasol. LA will be a repeat luxury tax payer next year. getting rid of pau will save them some ungodly amount of money, and they still get a decent player in paul and maybe some other pieces. Well see. I wouldnt hate it, even if pau looks like a really tall fish.

Post #11 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Wed Mar 6, 2013 11:42 pm

slcjosh wrote:im willing to be we sign and trade paul, let al walk. i dont know what the odds are, but I know Locke is of the impression that the jazz have a real shot to sign and trade paul to LA for Pau Gasol. LA will be a repeat luxury tax payer next year. getting rid of pau will save them some ungodly amount of money, and they still get a decent player in paul and maybe some other pieces. Well see. I wouldnt hate it, even if pau looks like a really tall fish.

fishy fishy fishy fish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QanC47gRBaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4

RyanStorm · Post #12 » by **RyanStorm** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:25 am

Every team needs a Millsap. Al everyone likes him and thinks he is a great player, but I don't think he fits any system but his own. And with his big contract it will be harder to find a buyer. Millsap fits into anyones setup.

Isn't what Jazz did, to inflate Millsaps price. First they give him that crazy high contract which we played him through, and now were about to see the same situation. Do we give him a new big contract to keep him, or to trade him. Or do we let this 2nd rounder walk after being his only home like Miles?!

MKG35 · Post #13 » by **MKG35** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 9:58 am

StocktonShorts wrote:
Source? Please provide details on the "really really really good deal" the Jazz passed up.

I

hoops4life wrote:
MKG35 wrote:Sorry to pick on you dude, especially since you are a ball boy and we should be encouraging people to join RealGM and contribute... you are the straw that broke the camel's back..

I don't mind. But what's the worst case scenario that could happen, you got 2 great players who are wanted by other teams but no deal happens. If they end up walking and you get 0 in return, what then?

Take your losses and be happy with the team you got because it's already good?

No one exactly knows which deals they were offered, so that's just guessing. Even for you stockton. But I'm sure if they wanted they could have gotten a pick like Countrybama wrote. They could have been agressive and gotten Bledsoe and ...

Also, what if they miss the playoffs because the schedule is so difficult with NY twice, OKC, ....

Jefff · Post #14 » by **Jefff** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:24 am

RyanStorm wrote:Every team needs a Millsap. Al everyone likes him and thinks he is a great player, but I don't think he fits any system but his own. And with his big contract it will be harder to find a buyer. Millsap fits into anyones setup.

Isn't what Jazz did, to inflate Millsaps price. First they give him that crazy high contract which we played him through, and now were about to see the same situation. Do we give him a new big contract to keep him, or to trade him. Or do we let this 2nd rounder walk after being his only home like Miles?!

it was Portland that tendered a big (poison-pill and front loaded when Utah was already over the cap) deal to Millsap, and Utah just matched it. Same was for Matthews, but Utah decided to not match the offer. Two reasons to hate (in sport sense) the jailblazers and Allen's dollars

Post #15 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:57 pm

MKG35 wrote:
I don't mind. But what's the worst case scenario that could happen, you got 2 great players who are wanted by other teams but no deal happens. If they end up walking and you get 0 in return, what then?

Take your losses and be happy with the team you got because it's already good?

The Jazz can still sign and trade both Millsap and Big Al.

MKG35 wrote:No one exactly knows which deals they were offered, so that's just guessing. Even for you stockton. But I'm sure if they wanted they could have gotten a pick like Countrybama wrote. They could have been agressive and gotten Bledsoe and ...

Looking at the trades that actually got made at the trade deadline - no 1st round pick was involved. and no significant players were involved. This is just an indication of lack of good offers. Could the Jazz get a 1st round pick? probably. But it would probably also mean they would have to take on bad contracts attached to bad players. The jazz already have two picks in the first round - they only need another pick if it is a high one, which really limits the number of teams available to trade with from the get go.

As for Bledsoe - sure the Jazz probably could have gotten him, but the question is at what cost? I for one am happy we didn't get him, regardless of the cost. Also, consider the possibility that the Clippers were just using the Jazz to pressure the Celtics into a deal.

MKG35 wrote:Also, what if they miss the playoffs because the schedule is so difficult with NY twice, OKC, ....

If the Jazz miss the playoffs, there really isn't much need in MORE draft picks. We already have two, and one will be in the lottery in that scenario. This is a weak draft, and a team can only have so many young players on the roster.