Andrew Bogut

Bimbo_Coles · Post #1 » by **Bimbo_Coles** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 12:07 am

Hi Cleveland Fans.

As you know, the warriors are throwing their hat into the ring for the Dwight Howard Sweepstakes, and the offer appears to be Bogut + Barnes or Klay for D12.

One of the sticking points, is that Boguts contract would trigger a pretty hefty luxury tax charge that may not be worth the prospect they'd be taking on. Bogut is an expiring contract at a premium position. This last year was a rough one for him, but with a full offseason of rest (and no surgery) he should be set for a bounce-back year.

To make the LAL/GSW deal go down, we might need a 3rd team that is under the cap to take on Bogut in return for young assets/picks. Cleveland seems like a fit as you guys may want to start winning in advance of a FA push in 2014. Bogut helps that cause without messing with 2014 cap room.

Is there interest in Bogut, and if so, what would you be willing to give up? With the drafting of Bennett, do you think Tristan Thompson is expendable? If not, what would you give up for Bogut?

Cavs Rising · Post #2 » by **Cavs Rising** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 12:17 am

BossHoggin · Post #3 » by **BossHoggin** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 12:30 am

Yep, Cavs want Barnes with Bogut. Not giving up value to help teams for nothing.

Cavs Rising · Post #4 » by **Cavs Rising** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 12:43 am

I have already seen dwight in houston in my mind anyway so this is all moot.

fart · Post #5 » by **fart** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 12:52 am

Give us Barnes and you got a deal.

Bimbo_Coles · Post #6 » by **Bimbo_Coles** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 1:27 am

Barnes + Bogut is the deal being proposed for Dwight Howard. I'm sorry, but D12 has a bit more value than Tristan Thompson.

If there is no interest in taking on a 1-year Bogut rental then that is fine. He's not really overpaid compared to his value, and he's expiring so he doesn't represent negative value.

Cavs Rising · Post #7 » by **Cavs Rising** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 1:39 am

Bimbo_Coles wrote:Barnes + Bogut is the deal being proposed for Dwight Howard. I'm sorry, but D12 has a bit more value than Tristan Thompson.

If there is no interest in taking on a 1-year Bogut rental then that is fine. He's not really overpaid compared to his value, and he's expiring so he doesn't represent negative value.

He can represent negative value. We already have an injury prone starting center locked in for next season. If we were going to absorb a contract it should either be for a position of need or because we are getting some other assets. Cap space should not be wasted so lightly.

BossHoggin · Post #8 » by **BossHoggin** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 2:04 am

Bimbo_Coles wrote:Barnes + Bogut is the deal being proposed for Dwight Howard. I'm sorry, but D12 has a bit more value than Tristan Thompson.

If there is no interest in taking on a 1-year Bogut rental then that is fine. He's not really overpaid compared to his value, and he's expiring so he doesn't represent negative value.

you're not getting Tristan regardless, or Dwight. It's funny you actually think you have a shot. :lol:

Post #9 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 3:29 am

Somehow he was thinking that the Cavs were going to pay them for Bogut. LOL

No really, you actually would be the ones paying for the assistance.

NW · Post #10 » by NW » Tue Jul 2, 2013 4:34 am

TheOUTLAW wrote:Somehow he was thinking that the Cavs were going to pay them for Bogut. LOL

No really, you actually would be the ones paying for the assistance.

Maybe, but the price wouldn't be as high as Barnes (who would be heading to LA in this scenario). For a legit starting C on an expiring deal who can help you make the playoffs next season and doesn't affect your cap room/LeBron pursuit? And you want Barnes too? Come on.

You guys are linked to bigger injury risks in Oden and Bynum

BossHoggin · Post #11 » by **BossHoggin** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 4:57 am

NW wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:Somehow he was thinking that the Cavs were going to pay them for Bogut. LOL

No really, you actually would be the ones paying for the assistance.

Maybe, but the price wouldn't be as high as Barnes (who would be heading to LA in this scenario). For a legit starting C on an expiring deal who can help you make the playoffs next season and doesn't affect your cap room/LeBron pursuit? And you want Barnes too? Come on.

You guys are linked to bigger injury risks in Oden and Bynum

so an expired bogut will attract Lebron?

BossHoggin · Post #12 » by **BossHoggin** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 4:59 am

I love when other team's posters come in here and expect the Cavs to help for no incentive. Then they get upset when their feelings get hurt.

Post #13 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 5:04 am

NW wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:Somehow he was thinking that the Cavs were going to pay them for Bogut. LOL

No really, you actually would be the ones paying for the assistance.

Maybe, but the price wouldn't be as high as Barnes (who would be heading to LA in this scenario). For a legit starting C on an expiring deal who can help you make the playoffs next season and doesn't affect your cap room/LeBron pursuit? And you want Barnes too? Come on.

You guys are linked to bigger injury risks in Oden and Bynum

The price that we've charged everyone that's come to us for assistance is that they give us a first rounder. Sure, we'll pay that year of salary, but it'll cost you. Bogut would be no different.

NW · Post #14 » by NW » Tue Jul 2, 2013 7:20 am

TheOUTLAW wrote:
NW wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:Somehow he was thinking that the Cavs were going to pay them for Bogut. LOL

No really, you actually would be the ones paying for the assistance.

Maybe, but the price wouldn't be as high as Barnes (who would be heading to LA in this scenario). For a legit starting C on an expiring deal who can help you make the playoffs next season and doesn't affect your cap room/LeBron pursuit? And you want Barnes too? Come on.

You guys are linked to bigger injury risks in Oden and Bynum

The price that we've charged everyone that's come to us for assistance is that they give us a first rounder. Sure, we'll pay that year of salary, but it'll cost you. Bogut would be no different.

Protected future first I could see. Barnes as the fee was ridiculous

Post #15 » by **B Mac** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 12:33 pm

I think it was you suggesting that we would give up Tristan that was your undoing.

Niko23 · Post #16 » by **Niko23** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 1:47 pm

I guess I need to watch Bogut play more often because I got into a simliar debate with Turk who is a GSW fan. Apparently and according to him - Bogut is a top 5 center and when injured he is a top 10 center. I do not see it. What if Bogut goes to LA and Gasol comes here? It would be strictly absorption - even though Windy mentioned an AV/Gasol swap.....

BossHoggin · Post #17 » by **BossHoggin** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 3:10 pm

NW wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:
NW wrote:
Maybe, but the price wouldn't be as high as Barnes (who would be heading to LA in this scenario). For a legit starting C on an expiring deal who can help you make the playoffs next season and doesn't affect your cap room/LeBron pursuit? And you want Barnes too? Come on.

You guys are linked to bigger injury risks in Oden and Bynum

The price that we've charged everyone that's come to us for assistance is that they give us a first rounder. Sure, we'll pay that year of salary, but it'll cost you. Bogut would be no different.

Protected future first I could see. Barnes as the fee was ridiculous

Not if you want Thompson for Bogut

NW · Post #18 » by NW » Tue Jul 2, 2013 3:50 pm

BossHoggin wrote:
NW wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:
The price that we've charged everyone that's come to us for assistance is that they give us a first rounder. Sure, we'll pay that year of salary, but it'll cost you. Bogut would be no different.

Protected future first I could see. Barnes as the fee was ridiculous

Not if you want Thompson for Bogut

Don't know where Thompson came into it. Deal is Bogut for cap space-basically a 3-way where Bogut goes to LA as part of Dwight package and then gets moved to Cleveland. No need for Thompson in this deal

mup · Post #19 » by **mup** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 9:17 pm

NW wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:Somehow he was thinking that the Cavs were going to pay them for Bogut. LOL

No really, you actually would be the ones paying for the assistance.

Maybe, but the price wouldn't be as high as Barnes (who would be heading to LA in this scenario). For a legit starting C on an expiring deal who can help you make the playoffs next season and doesn't affect your cap room/LeBron pursuit? And you want Barnes too? Come on.

You guys are linked to bigger injury risks in Oden and Bynum

You guys don't seem to understand how these trades work. If this deal were anywhere close to happening, the Warriors would be desperately trying to find somebody to take Bogut to stop the deal from collapsing. Everybody knows this so there is no use in trying to snowball somebody by trying to convince them Bogut is a valuable asset. If Bogut is an asset, then either GSW or LAL would want him and nobody would even bother the Cavs.

So, you're better off if you just call a spade a spade and admit that you're looking for somewhere to dump this bum to make the bigger deal work. This happens all the time, and the price is usually an unprotected 1st round pick and cash to pay for the stiff. So, that's your deal:

LAL gets Barnes (and probably more from GSW, I'd imagine)
GSW gets Howard
CLE gets Bogut and a 2014 Warriors 1st round pick and $3 million in cash from GSW

The deal is really a take it or leave it. Cleveland doesn't want Bogut so there's no need in trying to negotiate. And frankly, I'm not even sure this gets it done since Cleveland might have other plans for its capspace this year that doesn't really involve Andrew Bogut. So, Cleveland might just say no thanks altogether especially if they think the GSW pick would be too low.

But if you thought Cleveland would offer something for the pleasure of being included in this dog of a deal, then, again, you probably don't understand how trades like this work.

Bimbo_Coles · Post #20 » by **Bimbo_Coles** » Tue Jul 2, 2013 11:24 pm

The purpose of this thread was to see if there was any interest in Bogut in Cleveland. Obviously not, so we can just end the discussion.

A 1st round pick is the price to take on a bad contract (i.e Jefferson or Biedrins). Bogut does not represent a bad contract. We can just trade him to Atlanta or another team that would like his services.

End of thread.