Would you... Rondo+Green for Kings 2014 lotto pick+Mclemore?

[robbie84]

Celtics fan here. Want general fans thoughts on what either side would do. Do Kings say yes?

Two possible scenarios. Either

1) Rondo wants out of Celtics because he's tired of losing & similarly to below- can't foresee any All Star caliber help coming his way....

2) The Celtics can't find any free agent or disgruntled star suitors to pair with Rondo and Danny Ainge the Celtics GM decides to blow it up even more- a ground up rebuild.

THIS IS A DRAFT DAY TRADE AFTER WE KNOW THE KINGS HAVE A TOP 8 PICK AT THE VERY WORST- HOPEFULLY A TOP 5 PICK.

End game/goal here is that Cetics end up with their own pick which is likely top 8.
If they get hands on the Kings pick it's in about the same range, likely even higher than Celtics.
I'm in the boat that says if Celtics trade Rondo I don't think we need Green- it's pointless.

Getting Mclemore gives Celtics a potential core of...
*Two top 10 picks in the 2014 draft ie Jabari Parker +Joel Embid or any two players in that top 10 range that are around- some serious All Star potential.
*Mclemore for 3 seasons locked in.
*Sully +Olynyk still in town.
*rest of other picks giving them plenty of bargaining power for years to come.

Here's the trade.

Celtics send to the Kings:

*Rajon Rondo
*Jeff Green
* Maybe we also include the Celtics 2014 first round pick attained from Nets (or was it Clippers?- anyway it's a pick around 15-20)
...but we only include this if we have to.

Kings send back

*Ben Mclemore
*Kings 2014 first round pick
*Jimmer (or young prospect)
*Salmons and/or Outlaw/Landry to make salaries work.

Why?
Kings have the big fella locked up. It's time to win now.
Rondo is the best passer in the NBA- he's a veteran playoff warrior. Not sure there's any other guard you want passing and finding Cousins around the rim- he made a 37 year old Shaq look like it was 1999.
Jeff Green is a solid small forward who is capable of scoring, defending and has become a very reliable three point shooter- he's not All Star level and may never be but he'll defend the best SF's in the game- he can also play the PF in a small ball line up and is good for 15 ppg.
You also get a nice pick in a nice draft as a sweetner.

Celtics at this point agree to sign and trade Rondo because the rebuild is looking like it's a long term initiative. They can't sign any major free agents and Rondo is disgruntled because the Celtics can't lure Love or Aldridge from the Wolves/Blazers and he wants out. They're already swimming around the dregs of the NBA- it's now time to cement themselves as a bottom 3 stinker for a few seasons while they tool up.
Some will argue that why trade an All Star for picks or potential. The answer is because he's only locked in for one more season after this year. He can walk pretty soon and if we can't pair him up with some other studs then he's probably wanting a change of scenery, so we get the most out of him while we can.
If we are ever going to trade Rondo is there anything better than a top 8 pick in this loaded draft?
I doubt it.

[Durins Baynes]

The Kings have zero interest in that. They're massively overpaying. Rondo isn't better than what they can get in 2014 in the lotto, and will leave them in the 2015 FA process anyhow, and Jeff Green is the definition of overrated, and overpaid of course. Then throwing in McLemore? Pfft, no thanks.

[Baddy Chuck]

I read it as lotto protected and was going to say it wasn't that bad of an idea, but man that is too much.

[robbie84]

The Kings have zero interest in that. They're massively overpaying. Rondo isn't better than what they can get in 2014 in the lotto, and will leave them in the 2015 FA process anyhow, and Jeff Green is the definition of overrated, and overpaid of course. Then throwing in McLemore? Pfft, no thanks.

The point is that the lotto is just that- a gamble. You're saying they'll do better than Rondo but how many drafts produce a player like Rondo? He's a proven commodity. Of course they'd have basically the whole season to make sure he's 100% healthy again and then say yes.
You need to look at the context of why the Kings do this...They've signed Cousins to 4 years and monster money.
Rondo is the perfect pairing next to Cousins. What point guard will they ever get that is that good of a match for Cousins or point guard in general? He's the guy that makes Cousins as good as he can be and complements all of his skills- and makes him better.
Green is over rated in your opinion but he's on 9 million for four years which isn't bad for the third or 4th option on a championship team. He can defend anyone and can shoot. You obviously didn't watch him last year because he had an amazing second half of the season once inserted into the starting position.
He's not an All Star but he's arguably very good value at only 9 million per year.
McLemore is a rookie. The pick is an unknown.
Think of the risk the Kings are taking by going to the draft again. Who have they scored via the draft other than Cousins in the last 10 years? Do you think if they could draft a guy like Rondo with their pick this year that they would turn it down? I don't think so lol.
Cousins+Rondo+Green still leaves them room for another free agent because of Greens contract- it's a serious contender to make the second round of the playoffs and beyond if they sign the right free agent.

If you are the Kings- and you had the 6th or 7th or even 3rd or 4th pick- would you be happy if in 4 seasons that player turned out to be as good as Rajon Rondo? If you're the Kings front office it's hard to turn down- and that's the reason you ask for Mclemore aswell, after giving them Green. Hell I've even suggested they take Green and the Celtics pick from the Nets as compensation if they have to. Still not enough for you?
Is it possible you're a Celtics hater or just don't know enough about Green?
Opinion is cool man but to say the Kings have zero interest is highly unlikely.
New stadium, owners- that want results and profit. Rondo= star attraction. Him and Cousins (and Green) make them an ESPN feature and a regular playoff contender. They'd still have work to do to become elite but the math says they're way closer with Rondo and Green next to Cousins than Mclemore and a pick.

[jayjaysee]

Depends what McLemore looks like this season.

If he's the near ready NBA stud Kings fans hope, then this is a gross overpay for the Kings. If he's Austin Rivers and the pick is 6-8, then they'd consider it.

But not top 5. If the Kings get "lucky" and actually do bottom 5 this season somehow their are (at least) 4-5 guys they'd rather pair with Cousins/Mc/whoever their core is - than an expiring Rondo...


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[jayjaysee]

New stadium, owners- that want results and profit. Rondo= star attraction. Him and Cousins (and Green) make them an ESPN feature and a regular playoff contender. They'd still have work to do to become elite but the math says they're way closer with Rondo and Green next to Cousins than Mclemore and a pick.

It's not a "pick" it's a top 7 pick in the best draft since Bron Bron. You're replying to someone who desperately argues his opinion blindly and doesn't look at both sides whatsoever..

But regardless of that - this isn't a normal 6th pick. You're massively undervaluing this draft like he is hating Celtics players.

One year of Rondo (or maybe 4) are not worth 7 years of Parker, Randle, Exum, Smart, etc... And it is an etc and I'm not even including Wiggins..

Cousins / Green / Rondo is maxed out an no cap space coming

Cousins / McLemore / any of those names will possibly have a rough 2015 season but depending on Vasquez, Patterson moves they could have max cap space that offseason to go after Rondo or insert name...

And even without that - at least McLemore+top7pick - with Cousins can grow into something more potentially, unlike Green/Rondo/Cousins


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[DK-All Day]

Why can't we just bottom out, and have a nice pick BUT we get to keep our players. There is no reason to trade Rondo because we will still be horrific.

Green> Mclemore . Say what you want abut Jeff Green, but he has shown that he is capable Starting SF in this league. Mclemore was supposed to be the # 1 pick last year, there is a reason he dropped all the way to # 7.

Rondo> 2014 pick(5-10). I'll take the proven commodity every time. There will always be busts in the draft- that's a given, you just need to be smart enough to avoid them. If you want the take the risk on a player not knowing if he will pan out then more power to you.

[Trader_Joe]

New stadium, owners- that want results and profit. Rondo= star attraction. Him and Cousins (and Green) make them an ESPN feature and a regular playoff contender. They'd still have work to do to become elite but the math says they're way closer with Rondo and Green next to Cousins than Mclemore and a pick.

It's not a "pick" it's a top 7 pick in the best draft since Bron Bron. You're replying to someone who desperately argues his opinion blindly and doesn't look at both sides whatsoever..

But regardless of that - this isn't a normal 6th pick. You're massively undervaluing this draft like he is hating Celtics players.

One year of Rondo (or maybe 4) are not worth 7 years of Parker, Randle, Exum, Smart, etc... And it is an etc and I'm not even including Wiggins..

Cousins / Green / Rondo is maxed out an no cap space coming

Cousins / McLemore / any of those names will possibly have a rough 2015 season but depending on Vasquez, Patterson moves they could have max cap space that offseason to go after Rondo or insert name...

And even without that - at least McLemore+top7pick - with Cousins can grow into something more potentially, unlike Green/Rondo/Cousins


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

They'd have major cap space in one year after the trade as Hayes, outlaw, LRMM, Thornton expire.

Rondo
'15#1
Green
Landry
Cousins

Good concept in general as pairing an elite PG and a center with elite potential should be enough for 40 wins on their own. Also, Cousins is locked up for 5 years and then he's unrestricted. The time to try to win starts now. McLemore and a '14#1 are probably 2-3 years away from helping Cousins and the Kings win, and if they don't pan out, Cousins is gone.

Considering the Celtics need someone with size like Thompson, and the Kings need to clear one more contract for max salary the deal should be...

McLemore, Salmons, Thompson, Jimmer or IT, #1(5-8 range)
For
Rondo, Green, Crawford, BK #1

[Durins Baynes]

The point is that the lotto is just that- a gamble. You're saying they'll do better than Rondo but how many drafts produce a player like Rondo? He's a proven commodity. Of course they'd have basically the whole season to make sure he's 100% healthy again and then say yes.

Rondo is entering his 2nd season in a row during which he will miss a major chunk of the season with an injury. The possibility that the guy they get in the lottery will not pan out in this upcoming draft is less than the possibility of Rondo leaving in 2015. Why would a guy with his attitude want to stay in SacTown, where he has no roots or history? He'll probably just sign with Boston or NY or LA in 2015, so the Kings give up 2 great assets for the right to rent Rondo and his injury prone ego, and to hold onto Jeff Green and his bad contract.

Green is over rated in your opinion but he's on 9 million for four years which isn't bad for the third or 4th option on a championship team. He can defend anyone and can shoot. You obviously didn't watch him last year because he had an amazing second half of the season once inserted into the starting position.
He's not an All Star but he's arguably very good value at only 9 million per year.

Green seems to have this weird Celtic following of fans who believe he's destined for great things just based on a few good stretches of play. Plenty of guys have hot stretches though- Jeremy Lin, Carl Landry, Monta Ellis. They call them averages for a reason, and the averages are not kind to Jeff Green, who is now 27 years old and has had 6 years of experience- the result of which is we still don't know if he's even a starter. What we do know is he has a heart condition and a huge, uninsured contract. Fun. He's terrible value for 9 million. Someone like Danny Green costs the Spurs less than $4mill, and he has a clearly defined role and no baggage. I'd rather Danny Green than Jeff Green, and I'm sure the Spurs feel the same way. I'm sure you will mention his big game against the Heat, to which I will observe that Tony Delk once scored 52 points in a game too. Remember how Linas Kleiza showed he was for real after his big game? A lot of average players have a big game or two in their careers, it doesn't change who they are as players though.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=au

McLemore is a rookie. The pick is an unknown.

A lotto pick in one of the best drafts in recent memory. No way are they trading that. McLemore is a lot more promising then Green long term too, not to mention much cheaper. There is a new Kings ownership now, hopefully they invest more in scouts than the old one. But if you take the attitude of "we can't make good draft picks" then you might as well give up managing a team, because you're giving up before you begin. Even a bad GM can luck into talent in this draft.

It's telling that everyone hates this trade, even the posters who don't like each other. It's awful.

[Devilanche]

The point is that the lotto is just that- a gamble. You're saying they'll do better than Rondo but how many drafts produce a player like Rondo? He's a proven commodity. Of course they'd have basically the whole season to make sure he's 100% healthy again and then say yes.
You need to look at the context of why the Kings do this...They've signed Cousins to 4 years and monster money.

Green is over rated in your opinion but he's on 9 million for four years which isn't bad for the third or 4th option on a championship team. He can defend anyone and can shoot. You obviously didn't watch him last year because he had an amazing second half of the season once inserted into the starting position.
He's not an All Star but he's arguably very good value at only 9 million per year.

McLemore is a rookie. The pick is an unknown.

Your trade assumed that Kings already have top 8 picks, if they do that, does that means McLemore underperform or he still performed well enough that Celtics will want to trade him? If not, does Celtics see someone at #8 that's worth giving up Rondo for?

At the 2014 draft, Rondo is under contract for another season while the Rookie is under contract for 4 years. Unless Rondo is a trade and extend scenario, i take my shot at the rookie. If the experiment fails, Kings would be without Mclemore AND #8.

Let's all agree that Green could at least fill in a role on the kings but he'll be under contract for only 2 years.

I guess if we are at the trade deadline and Kings somehow have a chance for playoffs with Mclemore playing well as does some of the Kings other SG while Rondo has come back well BUT Boston are headed to the high lotto then this could be possible. But not at the 2014 draft.

[DrazenForThree]

Rondo isnt what cousins needs around him. And I can evnision rondo being all sunshine and rainbows being traded to a team thats also in a rebuild situation. also, this trade doesnt really help me if im the kings. why am i trading a lottery pick, on draft day, when ive already learned its top 5? thats 2 top 5 picks for rondo for a team that isnt competeing now.

much better off keeping cousins/mclemore/top 5 pick and then using cap space to sign veterans on the downswing for some veteran leadership to 3 year deals. especially when they already have a solid young pass first pg.

i dont like win now moves for teams not ready to win in the next 24 months. they have just 27M committed in 15-16 with some good free agents that season. build the next couple years with what you have:

Vasqyez/MClemore/Cousins. maybe trade salmons expiring for a overpaid vet on a 2 year deal who can provide leadership and Defense at the 4. helps bring your young guys along while keeing your cap clean for 15-16

thats the kind of moves the kings need to be looking at. building youth and bringing in vets who can keep them from being completely awful, isntall some leadership and winning qualities, and kill a festering losing atmosphere. not trading for semi-star players who will at best get you to an 8 seed

[DrazenForThree]

Your trade assumed that Kings already have top 8 picks, if they do that, does that means McLemore underperform or he still performed well enough that Celtics will want to trade him? If not, does Celtics see someone at #8 that's worth giving up Rondo for?

why would getting a top 8 pick mean mclemore played poorly? where the thunder getting top 5-10 picks to select guys like harden and westbrook all while durant had a great 1st couple years?

Did Beal, Drummond, and wiaters have good rookie seasons? there teams all picked top 8

[roc]

Did Beal, Drummond, and wiaters have good rookie seasons? there teams all picked top 8

Pistons got Drummond at 9

[Devilanche]

why would getting a top 8 pick mean mclemore played poorly? where the thunder getting top 5-10 picks to select guys like harden and westbrook all while durant had a great 1st couple years?

Did Beal, Drummond, and wiaters have good rookie seasons? there teams all picked top 8

You must understand how Boston fans will want to view Rondo's value. He's a guy that has stepped it up in the playoffs, injuries concern notwithstanding. Why would Kings want to do the trade effectively making a move for Rondo after 1 season of Mclemore? McLemore has either bust hard like Rivers value did OR they envision themselves to be in the playoffs soon after performing well.

If McLemore has underperformed, would Boston see him as enough of a buy low proposition? And who would use Rondo to buy low in that scenario?
If they have make improvement(fringe playoffs) then it can't be a top 8 pick unless they get lucky with those balls. Why not just continue and see how much improvement McLemore/Cousins/Vasquez can bring them with another season? Which Kings are making the trade at the 2014 draft.

You do note that OP mentioned that the pick is an unknown for Kings but for Boston it's a chance to draft a player with some serious all star potential

[LoyalKing]

Gross

SAC has no interest in Green's contract.

We can talk again when McLemore wins ROY this season (And he will)

[eliasrapp98]

I posted this exact trade but with Wallace not Green 1 month ago...

[eliasrapp98]

Except my trade made more sense as it was in December and the pick was top 7 protected and was probably gonna be around #10.

[TheOUTLAW]

Nonstarter since the Kings cannot trade their first until it is no longer owed to the Cavaliers.

[Trader_Joe]

Nonstarter since the Kings cannot trade their first until it is no longer owed to the Cavaliers.

The OP said this would be on draft night and Boston could include the Brooklyn #1.

[rpa]

I don't see anyone giving up that kind of haul for a guy who'll be a free agent in a year. Not even Billy King is that stupid ... oh wait.