Prime Penny Hardaway,Tracy McGrady,or Grant Hill?

TheBomb81 · Post #1 » by **TheBomb81** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 pm

Who was the better player out of the three and who would of had a better career if it wasn't for injuries?

ShaqAttack3234 · Post #2 » by **ShaqAttack3234** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:22 pm

Well, Penny's prime turned out to be 2-3 seasons, while Hill and McGrady had more years. All 3 are among my favorite players of all-time, but T-Mac was the best. Defense isn't the deciding factor between the 3, though I'd say T-Mac showed the most potential there, but as for offense, all were excellent passers and ball-handlers, but T-Mac was on another level as a scorer. Hill had the great crossover, Penny had the post game and mid-range game, but T-Mac had the entire package and the most athleticism of the three. McGrady's moves, footwork and jump shot from anywhere on the court made him the most unstoppable, especially since you couldn't contest his shot, and he had Kobe-like streak scoring ability.

SHAQ32 · Post #3 » by **SHAQ32** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:28 pm

I don't think we saw Penny's true peak, he finished 2nd in MVP voting in his third year and then was injured after.

Penny's courtvision and ability to run an offense was on another level even from Hill and McGrady, while still being able to be a 25ppg+ scorer.

I would rank them:

Penny
TMac
GHill

Mr MoJo Risin · Post #4 » by **Mr MoJo Risin** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:33 pm

1. Penny
2. Hill
3. Tmac

Penny was very dynamic. He could score, shoot, pass and can rebound for being a big. He was very influential in their finals run in 95.

Grant Hill was a beast in his prime. He was quick, athletic and was solid all around.

Tmac was the most explosive scorer, but question his defense and getting his teammates involved.

ShaqAttack3234 · Post #5 » by **ShaqAttack3234** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:36 pm

SHAQ32 wrote:I don't think we saw Penny's true peak, he finished 2nd in MVP voting in his third year and then was injured after.

Penny's courtvision and ability to run an offense was on another level even from Hill and McGrady, while still being able to be a 25ppg+ scorer.

I would rank them:

Penny
TMac
GHill

Good point about Penny's court vision in addition to his scoring ability. Before Shaq came back in '96, I believe Penny was averaging 26 per game. Just from watching him play, you could see had a lot more scoring ability than his numbers suggested, and I credit him for deferring on such a talented team. Hill's shooting holds him back the most for me, except for 2000, when he hired a shooting coach and showed real improvement, which is a reason why his scoring jumped up so much that season.

CaliBullsFan · Post #6 » by **CaliBullsFan** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:57 pm

1.T-Mac
2.Hill

3.Penny

blazersfan52 · Post #7 » by **blazersfan52** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:00 pm

Not sure who i'd chose never got the chance to see Penny play to young

but from what I know i'd say a tie between Grant Hill and T Mac they where both players I watched Grant Hill only when he was injured though

although from what I've heard I should not count Penny Haraway out because he was pretty good that I've heard.

tranjSAIC · Post #8 » by **tranjSAIC** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:06 pm

CaliBullsFan wrote:1.T-Mac
2.Hill

3.Penny

Your crazy, Penny was legit, he had it all, except defense but none of those guys were lock down defenders either. I think if your looking for pure scoring Tmac was definitely the way to go, but if you wanted a guy who could lead a team Penny was it.

Boy looking at that list just sucks though, such great players to be robbed. I feel the worst for Penny since he had the shortest prime, hell I really don't think he had a prime. He was hurt way too early, at least we saw what a prime Hill and McGrady could do.

tranjSAIC · Post #9 » by **tranjSAIC** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:06 pm

BTW, The Magic have a insane knack for landing franchise type talents... now if only we could keep them happy AND injury free, lol

DNice68 · Post #10 » by **DNice68** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:25 am

I use to think Grant Hill but I have to give it to Prime Penny because of his great play in the playoffs. I mean the series against Miami where he averaged 31 points a game. Penny was insane in that series dropping 42 against one of the best defensive teams in the league one game. Also against the Bulls in 95 and 96, he was giving Pippen and Jordan fits!

Mr MoJo Risin · Post #11 » by **Mr MoJo Risin** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:54 am

DNice68 wrote:I use to think Grant Hill but I have to give it to Prime Penny because of his great play in the playoffs. I mean the series against Miami where he averaged 31 points a game. Penny was insane in that series dropping 42 against one of the best defensive teams in the league one game. Also against the Bulls in 95 and 96, he was giving Pippen and Jordan fits!

Agreed.

One of the rare times, where I saw both Pippen and Jordan having difficulty in guarding a player. Penny playing at a very high level. He was instrumental in taking the Magic to the finals that season.

gavran · Post #12 » by **gavran** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:20 am

DNice68 wrote:I use to think Grant Hill but I have to give it to Prime Penny because of his great play in the playoffs. I mean the series against Miami where he averaged 31 points a game. Penny was insane in that series dropping 42 against one of the best defensive teams in the league one game. Also against the Bulls in 95 and 96, he was giving Pippen and Jordan fits!

Don't forget he also dropped 41 on them the very next game.

Post #13 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:48 pm

McGrady was a very good offensive player overall but people are acting like it was 2003 every year...

You could make a good argument for him in this thread, though I think a healthy Penny was better; but yeah, 03 was a brilliant single-year peak and his scoring had a lot less luster to it outside of that season. Still good, mind, but not enough to drive the arguments people are making.

E-Balla · Post #14 » by **E-Balla** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:49 pm

So wait are we projecting Penny's peak? If so I'll take him. If not TMac hands down.

Also sure TMac wasn't 03 every year but 01-02 were still great, 04 was very good, and 05 was great.

RayBan-Sematra · Post #15 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:40 pm

Prime
1. T-Mac
2. Hill
3. Penny

Peak
1. T-Mac
2. Penny
3. Hill

Penny was awesome but the reason why I rank his Prime last is because he really only had a 3 year window of excellence.
Loved him in 95 and he was great and ultra consistent throughout the whole year.
He probably peaked as a player in 96 and had a really great regular season though he did struggle in the playoffs against the Bulls averaging only 21 / 4.7apg on 38% shooting in the Final 3 games of a 4 game sweep.

Hill didn't really reach the heights of the other two but he had a good 6 quality years and was a 20 / 7 / 7 type player and probably the best defender of the three.

I don't have T-Mac's Peak that much above Penny's but his longevity is what for me clearly gives him the better Prime and his Peak is what puts him above Hill.

T-Mac was arguably the best SG for the 01-05 period.

Guess T-Mac just isn't that popular around here. I mean considering his Peak was at worst comparable to Penny's and he clearly has a higher number of Prime years I don't see how he isn't the obvious choice here.

gavran · Post #16 » by **gavran** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:26 am

RayBan-Sematra wrote:Prime

He probably peaked as a player in 96 and had a really great regular season though he did struggle in the playoffs against the Bulls averaging only 21 / 4.7apg on 38% shooting in the Final 3 games of a 4 game sweep.

He did have an damn good 4th game though.

EDIT: Penny's 2000 playoffs gets underrated also, he was the best player on the Suns that got out of the first round (though against a Spurs that was missing Duncan), and was great against the Lakers as well while his lef knee was basically hanging on a tendon. (his last game was horrible, that screws with his stats. That is more then the other guys did in the playoffs unfortunately.

ThunderDan9 · Post #17 » by **ThunderDan9** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:46 am

All of them terrific players of course.
I put Hill at #3. His absolute peak (Pistons) is somewhat behind that of T-Mac's and Penny's... at least in my mind.

I almost can't decide between the Orlando-guys. At their best, both of them looked like they had a shot to be the best player in the league. And both had an esthetically pleasing game as well, so smooth... great players to watch. Can't we have a draw? :lol:

1-2. Penny and Tracy
3. Grant

SoulInTheHole7 · Post #18 » by **SoulInTheHole7** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:23 pm

I don't see much debate about who was the best. That answer is easily T-Mac. Peak T-Mac was on the same tier as prime Kobe, and Wade. Grant, and Penny were never quite on that tier.

So it comes down to Penny vs Hill, in which case, I'd say Penny.

1. T-Mac

2. Penny
3. Hill

ShaqAttack3234 · Post #19 » by **ShaqAttack3234** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:08 pm

gavran wrote:He did have an damn good 4th game though.

EDIT: Penny's 2000 playoffs gets underrated also, he was the best player on the Suns that got out of the first round (though against a Spurs that was missing Duncan), and was great against the Lakers as well while his lef knee was basically hanging on a tendon. (his last game was horrible, that screws with his stats. That is more then the other guys did in the playoffs unfortunately.

In fairness, he was also injured entering the '96 ECF. The main problem was the supporting cast not hitting shots, and Horace Grant pretty much missing the entire series. You're not going to have much of a chance vs a 72 win Bulls team when that happens.

Agreed about Penny in 2000. He had lost a little, but he was still a solid athlete who had the skills, and was a legitimate all-star caliber guard, even in that first year in Phoenix. Too bad we didn't get to see more of a backcourt 2000. They were 33-12 when both Penny and Kidd played in 2000, iirc. Even though Penny had lost a little athleticism by that point, he still had the post game, mid-range jumper, footwork and ball-handling skills to fall back on in addition to the passing and court vision.