Move Smith to PF, fix the rotation

[MediumNasty]

The team's WS/48 through 6 games (If you're not familiar, .100 is NBA average)

Monroe .162
Drummond .148
Stuckey .138
Jennings .139
Bynum .108
Caldwell-Pope .079
Singler .070
Smith .024
Billups .005
Datome -0.076
Jerebko -0.157

The number that really sticks out is Josh Smith, as he was supposed to be the big acquisition for the Pistons and he's producing like a scrub despite all the good things he does. Datome and Jerebko have not played enough minutes to judge them well, and Datome has played most of his minutes out of position. Billups has been playing all of his minutes out of position.

1. Bring Drummond off the bench

The Josh Smith at SF experiment needs to end, sadly. When Smith is in the paint looking for rebounds and blocks, our perimeter defense suffers. When Smith is launching so many 3's a game, our offense suffers. Smith needs to move back to PF. Any offensive set that results in Smith taking a three is a failure. Smith's best season in his career was 09-10, when he shot a total of 7 threes all season. Smith will still be shooting them, but at least the number will go down.

Moving Smith to PF requires Drummond coming off the Bench. This eliminates the need to play a backup PF. It will keep the big 3's minutes under control. Singler will have to start, but that's the lesser of two evils. At least he's not starting at SG like last year.

2. Billups out of the rotation

Billups shouldn't be playing SG. He probably shouldn't be playing at all. He and Bynum should be competing for backup PG. Even though I hate Bynum, Bynum is playing well enough to get the minutes there.

3. Play KCP

Everybody but Cheeks knows we need to play KCP to improve our perimeter defense. Stuckey starts over KCP, because you don't want Bynum and Stuckey together on the floor.


Rotation

Jennings (36) / Bynum (12)
Stuckey (26) / Caldwell-Pope (22)
Singler (24) / Datome (24)
Smith (32) / Monroe (16)
Monroe (18) / Drummond (30)

[menten]

i agree with everything, this would probably be for the best

[srt4b]

Somewhat agree. The issue is minutes. the big 3 aren;t going to only play 30, 32, & 33 mpg.

[ComboGuardCity]

The heat and grizzlies are also one of the worst defensive teams so far. It's the first month of the season and even the elite defensive teams are adjusting. Let's be at least a little patient with guys who haven't even played 10 games together.


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[Piston Pete]

If we trade for a legit SF, I would welcome this move.

PG = Jennings / Billups
SG = KCP / Singler
SF = New guy backed up by Datome
PF/C = Two of (Smith, Moose, Dre) on the court together at all times.

[rmfc]

Drummond needs to stay in the starting lineup. Everything else can change.

[coolness]

the 3-big rotation is something I thought about a bunch of times in the last 2 days.

I don't even care who would be off the bench out of them. They each bring some very good things and could each average 30+ minutes. It would fix the problem of perimeter shooting and big-man fatigue at once.

Trading Will Bynum for Austin Daye is very intuitive to me, but afaik, not to a single other poster He is an awkward player but his stroke is top-notch and somehow he had a good on-court/off-court rating at the start of last year. He tended to play in the 2nd quarter for Coach Frank iirc.
And KCP (if he gets to shooting) could get some important sf minutes too.

Trading Jerebko for absolutely nothing would help the squad. Add 2nd's to his negative value. *shrug*

Trading Siva and Mitchell for future 2nd's might be good since they won't get a chance anyways.

I wish Big Ben and T-Mac could be signed as emergency players, but I think they literally can't be signed. I wonder if anybody else of their caliber is out there. I don't even know what happened to Cole Aldrich, but he is probably playing somewhere already. Barbosa probably is worthless. Rip hates us if he is even available.

If one of the Big 3 gets traded, it would have to be Smoove, but it's very unlikely. Not sure what he could get. Maybe Smoove and Poop for Gasol and Blake (probably in a 3 teamer,) but the Fakers are so greedy they probably wouldn't accept that good return.

Well....fanboy trade thread in disguise for me, but the idea of a 3 big rotation is intriguing. I don't think it will happen until that day when the team is considered objectively bad. That would take at least 20 games. Probably more. Even if it's what we need, a mediocre record might not be enough.

[HeroicKennedy]

The solution was to never sign Josh Smith to begin with.

[coolness]

The solution was to never sign Josh Smith to begin with.

The alternative was to get size and shooting without a star-level player. I can get both sides.

[MotownMadness]

I would bring Monroe off the bench before Drummond. Monroe can play the 4 and 5 alternating with Smith and Dre. You don't want Drummond leaving the rim. Plus this would give still give all 3 players good minutes.

[Q00]

I would look at bringing Smith off the bench. Starting Jennings/Stuckey/KCP with Moose/Dre up front. The perimeter defense is just not working right now and could be as simple as Smith just not being able to guard on the perimeter consistently at his size (along with Chauncey's poor D) that is putting the whole team defense rotations all out of sorts.

I thought the defense looked better with that unit that started the 2nd half, so maybe that's a lineup Cheeks should try starting. There are great pieces here to where there has to be a great rotation in this roster somewhere. They just have to find the right combo, and contract salaries cannot play factors. If the team is best with Smith off the bench, then that's what they need to do. Remember the Lakers brought Odom off the bench with their 3 bigs, who was on a high salary too, but no one cared because it led to two championships. Bottom line, Dre and Moose are our two best bigs, so if they ever determine they need to bring one of the bigs off the bench, its got to be Smith I would think.

It would be a lot easier to rotate the 3 bigs too. That way Dre/Moose could play more together, and Smith could still get his 30-35 mpg, it would just be in like a McDyess/Odom type role instead of starting.

[pistonsbball]

Smith doesn't work on this team. I was willing to have an open mind and give it time, but even after 7 games you can see it doesn't work. We would be much better served having a 3 and d guy at SF. Hindsight is a bitch, but we could've got Corey Brewer for a third of the price. Swap him and Smith and I guarantee we're sitting on 4 wins right now. All this club needs is Monroe and Jennings making plays with shooting and Drummond around them. Smith is a PF who needs to be playing around the rim, his skill set is nullified playing SF. There's no space for him to work along side Monroe and Drummond. There's no way we move that contract any time soon. There's no way I'm not starting Monroe and Drummond, so I guess Smith has to come off the bench.

Drummond(32)/Monroe(16)
Monroe(20)/Smith(28)
Singler(26)/Datome(12)/KCP(10)
KCP(20)/Stuckey(28)
Jennings(35)/Billups(13)

Despite the superstar SFs most likely abusing us, I say that rotation still makes the playoffs comfortably.

[DetroitDon15]

Smith doesn't work on this team. I was willing to have an open mind and give it time, but even after 7 games you can see it doesn't work. We would be much better served having a 3 and d guy at SF. Hindsight is a bitch, but we could've got Corey Brewer for a third of the price. Swap him and Smith and I guarantee we're sitting on 4 wins right now. All this club needs is Monroe and Jennings making plays with shooting and Drummond around them. Smith is a PF who needs to be playing around the rim, his skill set is nullified playing SF. There's no space for him to work along side Monroe and Drummond. There's no way we move that contract any time soon. There's no way I'm not starting Monroe and Drummond, so I guess Smith has to come off the bench.

Drummond(32)/Monroe(16)
Monroe(20)/Smith(28)
Singler(26)/Datome(12)/KCP(10)
KCP(20)/Stuckey(28)
Jennings(35)/Billups(13)

Despite the superstar SFs most likely abusing us, I say that rotation still makes the playoffs comfortably.

I agree that Smith as a SF was never going to work. I would love to add a Bruce Bowen type who can D and hit the corner/open three. I pray that guy is Caldwell-Pope. I am not sure Singler solves those problems. He looks slow on D in all honesty. I'd rather throw KCP to the wolves at this point. I think throwing him 30 minutes and giving Datome some love to back him up.

[Snakebites]

The solution was to never sign Josh Smith to begin with.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

[Kanzelord]

I agree with that...you can afford the big three only if you have in the same time a very good PG(not MrBigShot ,36 years old, or Bynum, Jennings too selfish) and a decent 3point shooter in the SG spot...right now pistons haven't them both.
I repeat, you can't think to be a decent NBA team playing only in the paint, very few offence options=easy defensive helps for the opponents...
I'd like to see that line-up, sometimes:Drummond/Smith/Datome, KCP(Stuckey)/Jennings, i don't know in defence(but worse than now?very difficult), but in offence decent presence in the paint, and more options from downtown and in the midrange...and that would help the PG, whoever he is.

[Clarity]

The solution was to never sign Josh Smith to begin with.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

I was the biggest "Josh Smith makes absolutely zero sense for us" guy there was but hes here now & hes not going anywhere. So we have to just make the best of it.

[Snakebites]

The solution was to never sign Josh Smith to begin with.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

I was the biggest "Josh Smith makes absolutely zero sense for us" guy there was but hes here now & hes not going anywhere. So we have to just make the best of it.

Sigh. Agreed.

There's simply no denying that our rotational problems stem partially from him being on the team and the need to minimize the amount of time he plays out of position.

Drummond appears to be better when he's not on the floor, and clearly Smith is more effective when he isn't out there with Monroe/Drummond.

This is a problem, to state the obvious.

[dVs33]

Ding ding ding ding ding!

I was the biggest "Josh Smith makes absolutely zero sense for us" guy there was but hes here now & hes not going anywhere. So we have to just make the best of it.

Sigh. Agreed.

There's simply no denying that our rotational problems stem partially from him being on the team and the need to minimize the amount of time he plays out of position.

Drummond appears to be better when he's not on the floor, and clearly Smith is more effective when he isn't out there with Monroe/Drummond.

This is a problem, to state the obvious.

I was also on the "please god don't sign smith" train, but what's done is done.

Right now i see more problems than just our rotations.
I don't have a problem with Smith starting at SF and sliding to PF when Moose or Drummond rests. He can be a great perimeter defender when engaged. He can post up opposing SFs which leads to easy points for him or easy passes for Dre. If he's doing that, then i can handle the occasional bad 3pt shot.
We looked good with monroe on one post and smith manning the other with Dre waiting for boards or passes.

I think moving billips out of the starting line up is the first thing cheeks needs to do.
have him run the second unit with KCP and both will be better for it.

[Clarity]

Sigh. Agreed.

There's simply no denying that our rotational problems stem partially from him being on the team and the need to minimize the amount of time he plays out of position.

Drummond appears to be better when he's not on the floor, and clearly Smith is more effective when he isn't out there with Monroe/Drummond.

This is a problem, to state the obvious.

Josh has never been, nor will he ever be a SF. He cant throw it in the ocean on his best day & he has frequent IQ lapses on offense that absolutely killed the Hawks & are happening with us as well.

That said he is very good at times on d & can form a very good defensive front line with our two bigs.

Drummond is much better without both our additions (Jennings doesnt look for him at all). Drummond is great with Will, unfortunately Drummond is the last person we can take off the floor (see his MPG this year) Last night is a prime example, he grabs 4 rebs in the first, the 2 other bigs grab 1 for the rest of the quarter when he sits. I think the rotations are good for the most part, although I would like to see more Gigi & KCP, not because I really think either is ready, but they are necessary right now. Spacing wasnt something those in the know just made up this past Summer. Its real & a huge problem right now.

[Clarity]

& I would definitely not move Chauncey out of the starting lineup yet. Jennings is too much of a wildcard. He started so rough vs Portland but once we got down Chauncey took reigns of the offense & we went on a run which avoided a near knockout blow in the first quarter.