The Definitive Dre/Moose/Smoove Thread

[tmorgan]

All in one place, all opinions welcome. I've seen a lot of random posts in random threads about "who should we trade?" and "who fits best together?", so I thought everyone could post their thoughts here and maybe come to a consensus...

That was a joke.

Anyway, here's my take:

1) Smith 3, Moose 4, Drummond 5 simply doesn't work. Smith isn't a good shooter and isn't a particularly good defender on the wing. Monroe and Drummond get in each others' way, forcing Drummond to basically stand on the sideline and look for boards. Smith doesn't seem to cut for Moose's passes, and Moose isn't a cutter for Smith's passes. All in all, it's inefficient offensively and ineffective defensively.

2) Bringing one of the three off the bench isn't realistic. Drummond needs to play to develop, Moose will undoubtedly get pissed and want to leave, and I can't see Josh taking it well long-term either.

3) Both Smith and Monroe are playing out of position. Monroe could develop further into a 4, but he needs a jumper he trusts (I keep seeing 8-16 on midrange, but that's less than ONE shot a game!) and will be limited defensively. Smith is ugly at the 3 for plenty of reasons.

4) Drummond is the one to cater to. His offensive game is certainly limited right now, but he's a potential superstar big. He's definitely the center long-term, and any decisions made should reflect that.

Those are the pre-thoughts. They lead to the conclusion that we really need to trade someone, Moose or Smoove. But who? We're about to reach the date that Smith is tradable. Smith is a known cost at 13.5mil a year for the next four years. Monroe may get anything from around 11 to 15.5mil a year in his next contract, depending on outside offers, and will almost certainly get four years as well.

My choice: Trade Monroe, but don't be in a hurry to do it this month or next.

Why?

1) This sounds arbitrary and it is, but Drummond/Monroe doesn't look functional to me. Sometimes opposite skill sets work well together, and you'd think a capable post passer would work well with an athletic finisher, but it hasn't except for a string of games at the end of last year. A reasonable counterpoint, though, is that if you replaced Smith with a good shooting 3, there would probably be more space for the two bigs to work together. My gut still says "no", but I admit to wavering.

2) I think Monroe has far, far more value than Smith around the league, and since trading one of them seems necessary, it makes more sense to sell Monroe at a good price than Smith at a bad one. Fanbases are hardly a perfect indicator of value, but if Moose can get Otto Porter+ or Batum or Barnes+, it makes sense to move him, because Smith isn't going to return anything close to that.

3) I prefer a defensive identity, and Smith at the 4 is a vastly superior defender to Moose at the 4. Offensively, they're both a bit turnover prone, but they can both work with Drummond, which is my primary concern. The key is getting a starting 3 that can legit stretch the floor. In some sense, it's Smith's weaknesses that make me want to trade Moose, which sounds bizarre but does make some sense.

There are legit concerns about my plan, namely age and thus long-term success, but if (in trade) Monroe becomes a young player that's part of the long-term plan, I don't see that as a problem.

OK, thoughts?

[ComboGuardCity]

Live by JAM. Die by JAM.


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[tmorgan]

Wouldn't that be JAG? Or SDM?

[ComboGuardCity]

I went with Greg's nick name moose. Traffic jam in the paint. Jam as in dunks. Jam just works haha


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[ImHeisenberg]

I like all three players. But, I'm not of the opinion that they fit together well.

Moose can be a force on offense, Drummond is a beast around the basket with a metric ton of upside, and Smith is a jack of all trades. At some point, Detroit is going to need to pick which combo of the two will be their starters with a proper small forward to space the floor and defender opposing SF's.

[StickAndMove]

I never wanted J-Smoove to begin with. I wouldn't have wanted him at this price even if he did fit (which he clearly doesn't). I'd like the Pistons to wash their hands of him ASAP.

[Archer1]

Celtics fan here...

Don't worry Pistons fans, the Cs would be happy to take any of those three off your hands

[tmorgan]

Not sure your Celtic management would want any part of Josh Smith and his 4/54 commitment. I still think there's a decent chance of a Monroe or Smith to the C's trade, but I doubt Rondo is involved. If Jeff Green is available, something might be there.

[Archer1]

I was interested in Smith in the offseason had Garnett been retained. A lineup of Rondo(Crawford)/Bradley/Green/Smith/Garnett was really intriguing to me. I still like him, but I'm appalled at his play this season. I wonder if Cheeks is allowing him such lenience with shooting out of necessity or design. Or is Smith just going rogue? I wouldn't offer much for him, but I'd be willing to take him off the Pistons cap if they were desperate. Something like Humphries/Brooks for Smith would work for me...

As for Greg Monroe, I would be thrilled to acquire him. I am actually happy that he seems to be the odd man out because he would be a tremendous asset to our frontcourt moving into the future. Green - although talented and currently a cog in the Cs wing play - is expendable in my eyes. He would fit much better on the Pistons who are in need of shooting and perimeter defense - two skills Green definitely has. I would be okay with Green/Lee for Stuckey/Monroe or Bogans in place of Lee. Lee is a more useful player, but is signed for three seasons at a borderline overpay (though he also offers the shooting and perimeter defense that would fit in Detroit as well as the ball-handling lost by Stuckey's departure in this trade). Bogans has a non-guaranteed contract after this season and can be released in the summer.

[theBigLip]

It will be interesting if something happens starting Dec 15 when recently signed free agents are able to be traded.

[triplet1984]

Is there any hard data on which pairs are most effective on the floor with the 3rd benched?

Smoove/Dre

Moose/Dre

Smoove/Moose


Let's just look at all the data and take our personal feelings out of it.

[Archer1]

Try this link...

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/team/ ... it-pistons

You can see the +/- stats for all 5 man units. Also, you can click on the player's name to get his personal +/- breakdown with teammates.

[tmorgan]

As for Greg Monroe, I would be thrilled to acquire him. I am actually happy that he seems to be the odd man out because he would be a tremendous asset to our frontcourt moving into the future. Green - although talented and currently a cog in the Cs wing play - is expendable in my eyes. He would fit much better on the Pistons who are in need of shooting and perimeter defense - two skills Green definitely has. I would be okay with Green/Lee for Stuckey/Monroe or Bogans in place of Lee. Lee is a more useful player, but is signed for three seasons at a borderline overpay (though he also offers the shooting and perimeter defense that would fit in Detroit as well as the ball-handling lost by Stuckey's departure in this trade). Bogans has a non-guaranteed contract after this season and can be released in the summer.

Given that we're trying to win, I doubt you're prying Stuckey loose right now, as he's leading our bench and (I think) still leading us in scoring. CV has the same expiring deal, basically, and no role.

Green/Lee for Monroe/CV will undoubtedly be hated by a majority of this board, but it's something I'd consider after first watching this Pistons experiment for another 10-15 games (18 games isn't enough to be sure of anything... I'd prefer at least 30).

[c-dot]

Try this link...

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/team/ ... it-pistons

You can see the +/- stats for all 5 man units. Also, you can click on the player's name to get his personal +/- breakdown with teammates.

It actually looks like Monroe/Smith is the most effective, go figure. Probably because Josh is really a PF and Monroe is really a C.

[srt4b]

Monroe is the only one that can be traded. Josh would be a negative trade and Drummond is untouchable.

That said, I would keep all 3 together for a year or 2.

[whitehops]

Try this link...

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/team/ ... it-pistons

You can see the +/- stats for all 5 man units. Also, you can click on the player's name to get his personal +/- breakdown with teammates.

It actually looks like Monroe/Smith is the most effective, go figure. Probably because Josh is really a PF and Monroe is really a C.

there's this one as well: http://www.82games.com/1314/1314DET2.HTM

[pistontr]

Try this link...

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/team/ ... it-pistons

You can see the +/- stats for all 5 man units. Also, you can click on the player's name to get his personal +/- breakdown with teammates.

according to this

Stuckey / Monroe /Jennings /Drummond /Singler line is our worst defensive line up
and
Pope / Monroe /Jennings / Drummond /Smith is best.


so this means smith is our best defender and singler is worst.

[triplet1984]

Pope is also an addition to the best ad lineup and is a good defender

[RSCD3_]

Pope is also an addition to the best ad lineup and is a good defender

Yeah I gotta funny feeling like pope might be our redo after drafting and letting go of aaron afflalo, he gives me an impression of AA

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[tmorgan]

That'd be a best-case scenario -- AA + extra athleticism