ATFL Western: (8) HeartBreakKid vs. (5) ThunderDan9

[MisterHibachi]

This is the thread for the match up of seeds 8 and 5 in the Western Conference of the All-Time Fantasy League.

General Discussion in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1293300
Draft was in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1294562
Playoff results in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1299878

Western Conference SemiFinals: (8) HeartBreakKid vs. (5) ThunderDan9

(8) HeartBreakKid
1. Julius Erving (80-82)
2. Karl Malone (96-98)
3. Artis Gilmore (81-83)
4. John Stockton (90-92)
5. George Gervin (80-82)
6. Kevin Johnson (89-91)
7. Bill Laimbeer (89-91)
8. Bruce Bowen (03-05)
9. Richard Hamilton (05-07)
10. Andrew Bogut (06-08)

(5) ThunderDan9
1. Larry Bird (84-86)
2. Dwight Howard (09-11)
3. Manu Ginobili (05-07)
4. Mark Price (92-94)
5. Horace Grant (93-95)
6. Bernard King (82-84)
7. Vlade Divac (95-97)
8. Derek Harper (88-90)
9. Dan Majerle (91-93)
10. Josh Smith (10-12)

Judges
bastillon
TMACFORMVP
penbeast0: ThunderDan9
ronnymac2: ThunderDan9
Doctor MJ
SideshowBob
Texas Chuck: ThunderDan9
therealbig3: ThunderDan9
whitehops
Quotatious: ThunderDan9
john248: ThunderDan9
MisterHibachi: ThunderDan9

In each match up, GMs will offer their preliminary strategy for beating the other team and reasons for why their team is stronger. GMs will also have the opportunity to respond to the opponent's strategy. Judges will offer any comments and questions they have of the GMs and finally will cast their vote for whichever team they think is stronger simply by saying 'Team A wins this matchup' or 'Team B wins this matchup'. Whoever gets more votes moves on.

Good luck!

[O_6]

Can you specify what the years are for HBK?

Pretty cool that Dr. J and Bird are going at it in this one.

[MisterHibachi]

Wait, holy ****. Did HBK declare his years and I missed them? They aren't even in the draft thread OP. HOW DID I MISS THIS? His years weren't written in his first match up thread either. What's going on! HBK, please tell me you declared the years and I somehow missed them.

[O_6]

I'm pretty sure he posted them in one of the threads. Don't know which one though. I could be wrong. I'm also looking for them.

[Narigo]

Wait, holy ****. Did HBK declare his years and I missed them? They aren't even in the draft thread OP. HOW DID I MISS THIS? His years weren't written in his first match up thread either. What's going on! HBK, please tell me you declared the years and I somehow missed them.

Julius Erving 80-82
Karl Malone 96-98
Artis Gilmore 81-83
John Stockton 90-92
George Gervin 79-81

Kevin Johnson 89-91
Bill Laimbeer 89-91
Bruce Bowen 03-05
Richard Hamilton 05-08
Andrew Bogut 06-08

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1293300&start=1110

[MisterHibachi]

Thanks, Narigo. Lol how did no one catch it in the first thread.

[MisterHibachi]

HBK, is Rip 05-07 or 06-08

[HeartBreakKid]

05-07

[john248]

I take it both teams forfeit.

[MisterHibachi]

Yeah, can we get some write ups here lol

[ThunderDan9]

LOTS of ideas already expressed in the previous round...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1300053

So, I don't want to repeat myself, the original judges are familiar with our teams in general... the new judges are advised to read the write-ups of the previous round.

On to the specific matchup.

On a lighter note... I see my team having a slight edge due to HBK demolishing DHodgkins's solo players... Malone and co might become overconfident and then WHAM... they are confronted by a coherent TEAM... led by one of the greatest team leaders in the history of basketball. 100% effort and the concept of team play, that might be a big contrast after their 1st round sweep over a bunch of players who did beat themselves .
While my team is more united and focused than ever after a hard-fought series against a really great team... Overcoming KAJ, T-Mac, Allen, and that really well-built team of john (which caused a lot of matchup troubles in addition!) should be a huge boost!

The first thing to come to my mind about HBK's team... is his bench led by KJ. I really like his bench, as I expressed my opinion in their first round thread.
And his starting 5 definitely has bigger names than mine. BUT. Almost all of that starting 5 consists of players, whose 3-year-peak is not as valuable as their careers as a whole!
- This version of Gilmore (aged 32-34) is well past his prime, he never got All-NBA recognition in the NBA.
- The other two ABA-guys don't have a problem of this caliber, but still... it's over-30 Doc (which is still awesome, a Top5 player definitely).
- Stockton and Malone... did they have a peak, anyway? Let's take Stockton for example. He is definitely WAY over Mark Price on any kind of career ranking, but it's 90-92 Stockton vs 92-94 Price... and suddenly, it's much, much, much closer... and a wide open debate! Price and Howard are two players whose "career" value almost exclusively comes from their 3-year-prime... and that's exactly what we are using here.

I feel that HBK's team doesn't challenge mine in the same ugly way john248's team did. My matchup-problems defensively seem to be lesser than in the previous round... first of all: no KAJ this time (thank God! ). In fact, it might be the other way around, and the much more mobile and agile Howard could cause a lot of trouble for the slower (both in movement and in reaction!) Gilmore... I see his team struggling as a whole defensively against my varied and much creative offense led by Bird. More so than john248's team did. Karl Malone is an excellent man-to-man defender of course (but not the best option against Bird), but what I question is HBK's team defense... I could see his team reacting somewhat clumsy and awkwardly when Bird, Ginobili, Price split the defense... Gilmore is not a good help-defender in the middle, he is slow, and Gervin is a lazy defender... a liability. There will be holes, which will be exploited by my team's terrific passing game (and shooting).
Bird tortured Doc's 1981 Sixers in that EPIC ECF (de facto Finals), I can see him wreaking havoc (even by his standards) in this series. Manu might also have a huge offensive series, and I already mentioned Dwight Howard's quickness, which could be exploited with my passing game.
Fast-break is again an excellent option for my team.

Defensively, i already detailed the merits of my team defense. NO KAJ! NO KAJ! Hallelujah!
Individually, Grant is a pretty good defensive match-up against HBK's #1 option... for a variety, Bird could also guard him for some stretches... the other player is on Erving... but again, the key here is great overall team defense. Gervin is an excellent iso-scorer of course, but Manu and ThunderDan would do just fine.

KJ is the Bernard King of HBK's team of course, a 6th man of the year candidate in this league...(alongside King of course). I have a slick, tenacious PG to throw at him... Manu might also try to guard him occasionally. If Laimbeer replaces Gilmore, I can throw in Divac, and let Bill ejected from the game. There will be some mind-games!

And again, I see a definitive advantage for my team in the clutch. The final minutes of playoff games... Malone is fading... who will score in the tightest of situations? I have Bird. (And clutch-Manu!)

[john248]

On a lighter note... I see my team having a slight edge due to HBK demolishing DHodgkins's solo players... Malone and co might become overconfident and then WHAM... they are confronted by a coherent TEAM... led by one of the greatest team leaders in the history of basketball.

No idea what's worse...the above or reading in another thread about how Afflalo is going to make Jordan work in the post.

[ThunderDan9]

I just took the whole project like a true, real-life playoff-tournament. These are the things sportswriters like to contemplate about between each round.

(It was supposed to be funny... )

PS: i was surprised that Afflalo had been drafted at all...

[penbeast0]

So, from the writeups (or lack thereof) I gather than ThunderDan will play much the same as he did against John's team in the first round, feeling that his strengths offensively and defensively don't need to be adjusted against HBK's interior brute, wing scorers, and ball dominant point while HBK has no writeup at all.

Very disappointing; if nothing else is forthcoming I will write tomorrow or give it to ThunderDan if I don't get anything posted by tomorrow night.

[john248]

No point in waiting any longer. I have no idea what offense HeartBreak's team will run aside from being a strict HCO that uses up the shot clock. Probably see a lot of PnR with Stockton/Malone and Dr J mixed in. Bench play might not be as good though I like it with KJ being insane off the bench with Bowen and Laimbeer spacing things out. Not really a role player here who can really break out for a game or 2 aside from KJ. Laimbeer in limited minutes can be effective since his style of play doesn't really work today in a starter's role. This will be plenty to counter the Bernard King with spacers in Majerle and Harper.

Price has been terrible in playoff situations by turning the ball over and multiple years of ORTG sub 100. I also see Erving doing a solid job defending Bird too due to his athleticism which Bird struggles against at times. Erving in this match-up will go off since Bird is nothing special as a man defender. Manu will do great in this series. HeartBreak doesn't have any real 3 point threat...sure Stockton can shoot 3's but who else will spot up from that range.

Vote ThunderDan9 by default

[Texas Chuck]

ThunderDan was the clear favorite in this series imo and so I needed something from HBK to sell me on his team's chances. Without any input from him and a solid plan and a terrific team put together by TD9, this one is easy:

ThunderDan9 in 4 or 5

[ronnymac2]

This would have been pretty good...

Vote: ThunderDan9

[MisterHibachi]

Wish we saw something from HBK.

Vote: ThunderDan9

[therealbig3]

Vote: ThunderDan9

[Quotatious]

Another vote for Thunder Dan, because HBK didn't show up to play.